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Do You Have To Cut Your Balls Off To Buy An Assault Mech?


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#21 Tesunie

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 07:43 AM

View PostBilbo, on 17 July 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

Oh, I find them often enough. Still find my glorious execution more enjoyable than actively hiding behind a rock.


I typically (and people can say what they want about it) place a few LRMs on my Assaults. So, while I lumber into position, I can still support any team members who can get locks. Then, it also seems to serve as a secondary tactic of confusing the enemy into thinking "Here lies LRM boat, easy for the pickings". Then, they typically charge me (one at a time if I'm really lucky), and fund out, I aint no boat. All the while, trying to keep up with a group that has abandoned me due to my slower speeds...


I even once decided to play a Stock Awesome, because it was Awesome. I liked the mech, but got tired of the team ditching me, and then complaining that it was my fault because I was too slow. Loved dropping next to a Direwolf, as we could at least stay together, abandoned for our slow speeds.

#22 InspectorG

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 07:45 AM

View PostFestus vanGeck, on 17 July 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:



I've played about a dozen games today morning and haven't seen one (ONE!) assault willing to get in front of the group and kick the enemy in the face. If you're not willing to do that, think about playing mediums or lights, everyone will have a better time. I feel an assault mech leading the team is like an unicorn these days.



You do not understand Assault-Fu...and i consider myself a Light pilot.

Assaults set up Firing Lines which ideally are area denial.

MWO has NO TANKS. NO HEALERS. NO RESURRECTIONS. Wrong game bud.

Assault need to be in the MIDDLE-ish of the blob. Left-alone they are asy pickings for a good light pilot with a FS/Locust/Raven/decent mech.
They push first(spear tip) into a bad position...you likely are losing all that firepower as opposed to a medium/heavy that can get out.(damaged but alive)

ANY 3 MECH can focus down about any single Assault...even Dires.

HEAVIES AND MEDIUMS take the front line because they can 'SPEED TANK' with mobility. LIGHTS should ideally strike, snipe, or harass choice targets.

BRAWLER ATLAS is a odd proposition. They need to be in the FRONT but NOT SPEAR TIP of a good push. 2nd-4th mech in.?
Why? short range and not broadcasting the intent. 2 SCROs looks like a strike.
2 SCROs+Atlas+other can firing line and bully out of position mechs.

So you need to think in terms of mobility, not armor/HP. Mobility+coordinated FOCUSED FIRE!!! WINS in MWO.

P.S. if you Solo, dont expect the above to happen unless someone decent calls shots or it happens naturally.

PP.S. spec some comp matches and you can see it.

PPP.S. Pilot your own Assault, lead the charge...get mad when no one folows!!!!!

#23 vamrat

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 07:49 AM

It seems that Assaults have to operate as heavy support. They have to commit to their movements or else if the lines shift they are stuck with their posteriors in the wind. An unsupported Assault becomes a dead Assault pretty quick. (I say this as a primarily light player...an Assault on his own is a c-bill farm ready for harvest!)

Interestingly, it seems that the heavies seem to be the best leaders. Send them in as the spearhead supported by mediums and they can wreak havoc.

#24 InspectorG

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 07:51 AM

View PostFestus vanGeck, on 17 July 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:


I have an acute allergy for anything that does less than 100 kph, so I'll pass on this one. I don't even need to try that to know that it works very well. Best MWO matches I had were the ones with competent assault pilots leading the way. I do realise this works much better with a coordinated unit, but is still very, very effective when done half as good in a PUG match.




As a light pilot learning the Assault ropes...

XL400 Wubshee is 2shield arms, 75kph of awesomeness...with high mounts. Warhawks are 71kph but squishy. Havent tried Gargles yet.

Timing and Positioning ar EVERYTHING to Assaults, mess either one up...you likely wont live.

#25 Ano

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 08:29 AM

An aside: I've just picked up my third Atlas (so I have a Boar's Head, the DDC and the loyalty reward one) and I know with Atlai it's "go brawl or go home". While I have plenty of short-range loadouts on my mechs, they tend to be on speedier chassis (90kph+) and I have a feeling I'm going to see a fair few sub-150dmg matches (and probably a bunch of complaints from my pugmates) until I figure out timings. Any tips on finding the balance between "lead the charge/get into range" and "get annihilated by ERLL/ERML/UAC5 at 400m to target"?

#26 Tesunie

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 08:39 AM

View PostAno, on 17 July 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

Any tips on finding the balance between "lead the charge/get into range" and "get annihilated by ERLL/ERML/UAC5 at 400m to target"?


I'm not much for piloting assaults, but here's mine. Expect your pugs to look like they are committing to the charge with you. Expect them to disapear as soon as any amount of damage touches them. Then, consider what just happened to your teammates as you seem to be alone and dieing quickly.

-OR-

Expect to be left behind, because everyone else is faster than you, and they all wish to swirl in a counter clockwise motion around the toilet bowl... I mean map. Then hear as they complain as the assaults did poorly, and the team lost as the enemy ate the tail of the spin one mech at a time...

-OR-

In the most unlikely alignment of all the stars, you may happen to fall into a PUG group that knows how to support, and is willing to risk themselves to support you (or just have a couple of other mechs willing to escort the assaults, no matter what shoots at them). Then, you will charge, your team will be there with you. You may die, but your team's chances of winning probably went up, as the enemy team most likely did what normally happens to you, and they ditched members of their team to die, so that they could live a few moments longer.


Basically, as an assault, learn your maps. Figure out where the typical person moves and either plan intercepting courses to ambush them, or try your best to stick with your group and hope they stick with you too. You want to position yourself along a wide area, facing a commonly traveled narrow area. This way, you can get as many guns from your team to shoot at anyone who goes through the narrow pass. (Hopefully, your opponent isn't doing the same thing on the other side. If so, things can get messy!)


(Please read with some measure of sarcasm. Though I am being somewhat serious, I'm also being somewhat joking too.)

#27 JC Daxion

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:05 AM

this is not an assault issue... Half the team is always playing hide and peak.. Moving as a group, and pushing are tactics people don't understand.. the only thing you can do is lead the charge.. I don't care what class i am in.. i am always near the front lines ready to brawl..

PUSH D5, PUSH 3 mechs at f9.. ect... But get good... then at the end of the match you are the one with 3-4 kills and 800 damage, and those that stayed back can complain about how slow they earn c-bills, as the assault lance ends up with 500 damage total, and nothing but assists.. Also the same people that were complaining that their ECM didn't protect them from turrets, because they never learned to play with out it.


Sometimes ill go down early, but most of the time i have fun, and do my best to get my team on the winning side.. at least no one can ever say it was because i was hiding.. though some times i spend so much time dodging and weaving, i can't take time to hit a target so my damage will be low.. but some times that helps us win....

Edited by JC Daxion, 17 July 2015 - 09:11 AM.


#28 TheSilken

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:07 AM

I find that Light mechs are often the best ones to send in first on a push (so long as it is done intelligently) because wasting enemy salvos is far better than tanking them plus it distracts their team allowing your big baddies to get into position and tear them apart. It's all about managing your resources more effectively than the other team.

#29 JC Daxion

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:12 AM

View PostTheSilken, on 17 July 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

I find that Light mechs are often the best ones to send in first on a push (so long as it is done intelligently) because wasting enemy salvos is far better than tanking them plus it distracts their team allowing your big baddies to get into position and tear them apart. It's all about managing your resources more effectively than the other team.



Yes,,,, lights and mediums flank, start the push.. But those heavies and assaults need to get the lead out, when it's time.. not just sit behind a rock for 5 mins during the match. I've seen more teams loose because people never move, than ones that decide to group push..

#30 DarkMetalBlade

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:14 AM

View PostFestus vanGeck, on 17 July 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

I have an acute allergy for anything that does less than 100 kph, so I'll pass on this one. I don't even need to try that to know that it works very well. Best MWO matches I had were the ones with competent assault pilots leading the way. I do realise this works much better with a coordinated unit, but is still very, very effective when done half as good in a PUG match.

Oh goodie, a Sonic the Hedgehog pilot...

Listen, you want to know why the bulk of the assaults are behind your lines & not out front? If they're the first thing the enemy sees, they'll most likely brand them as Public Enemy #1 & they'll do whatever it takes to kill them. Once that happens, their mech might as well be made out of paper, as unlike you, they don't have the speed to get out of harms way. Thus, they end up playing their future maps in the back, hoping that they can catch an opponent unawares, or stuff their mech full of LRMs & lob them every which way.

However, the best ways to utilize one's assaults is, like some other people point out, is for the faster mechs to go in first, & the assaults to follow them shortly after. That way, the enemy will focus on them, leaving your assaults the opportunity to wail on them in peace. & if they go after the assaults then? The rest of the team will have an open line to their backs.

All this, of course, requires both teamwork & coordination, & seeing that both of those barely exist in the solo queue, they're pretty much in a catch 22: Stay behind the line, & possibly get nibbled to death by enemy lights. Stay in middle, & watch your team slowly roll over & die in front of your eyes as nobody will push. Go out in front, & you'll die faster than a light mech, alone, with zero support.

Makes me wonder why the assaults aren't the least popular class instead of the lights...

Edited by DarkMetalBlade, 17 July 2015 - 09:16 AM.


#31 IraqiWalker

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:15 AM

View PostFestus vanGeck, on 17 July 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

From a diary of a medium mech pilot:

UGH!

I see some really good threads out there, like "Support the Atlas" or "Follow the fracking Atlas!". I get in the game, look around for one assault mech to support with my wubcrow and... nothing. Well, there's that one DWF with PPCs and Gauss' hiding several hundred meters behind the frontline. Or another one filled to the brim with LRMs, tucked behind a wall, desperately trying to get a lock while our fronline's getting obliterated, because half of our tonnage is afraid to get it's paint scratched.

Oh wait, what's that far away in the distance, is that...? Yeah, there's our ECM brawling Atlas, poking the enemy with his only LL, hiding for 2 minutes once somebody points a small laser at him. Wow, such courage, much tactics. Wow.

Apline peaks uphill attack. Do you know what it takes to make a line of assault mechs to move up and do their jobs? It's easy: put a medium mech in front of them, so they can all hide behind him while he facetanks everything during his uphill stride. Sounds absurd, but I can't count how many times I've done that in my SCR. Sad part is - this actually works. I might explode, but at least our assaults get in the enemy's face, instead of poking from an unfavourable position until they die one by one.

Is there a sticker on the assault mechs that says "Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE put your mech in a position where it can do it's job. You might get shot at, and that's very, very bad!". I seem to have missed it. Or does PGI require a sacrifice of your testicles once you attempt to buy an assault mech in the store?

I've played about a dozen games today morning and haven't seen one (ONE!) assault willing to get in front of the group and kick the enemy in the face. If you're not willing to do that, think about playing mediums or lights, everyone will have a better time. I feel an assault mech leading the team is like an unicorn these days.

On the other hand, if you do get in front, I will be right on your wing. I will blow parts off everything that dares to look at you. Every light mech that gets close will get a swift kick in the nuts. I will get in front of you and delay the enemy until you can get into a good position. I will watch all your blind spots. We'll be BFF until the end of time.

DO YOUR JOB SO THE OTHER 8-10 PEOPLE CAN DO THEIRS.

'Kay?


I agree with most of what you're saying. However, you should also concede that some assault mechs are designed for long range purposes. The DWF for example should NEVER be the first mech in the charge. It's too slow, and is not agile enough to spread damage. It's much better being the second or third mech. Or even sniping from 800 meters while the rest of the team is brawling.

On the other hand, there are assaults that should be leading the charge. The threads you mentioned in your post are both Atlas threads, because the Atlas is definitely the mech suited for leading a charge (it really needs better hitboxes, and armor quirks in this day and age). Both of those threads mention the Atlas specifically for that reason.

For clans, I'd say the Executioner is their best charge leader right now, in the assault class.

More than just joining a unit, I think you should hop on the faction hub, and coordinate with other pilots there, if your unit has no pilots in your timezone.

#32 DONTOR

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:26 AM

S Crows are actually fantastic mechs to lead the charge, they face tank / roll damage for days, and are fast enough to get through and do their job. Good on you!

#33 Ano

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 04:14 AM

View PostTesunie, on 17 July 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

(Please read with some measure of sarcasm. Though I am being somewhat serious, I'm also being somewhat joking too.)


Worry not -- my humour detector appears to be installed and functioning. :)

#34 WANTED

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 04:25 AM

Piloting an ATLAS and getting focused fire instantly during charges and dieing quickly has made me more cautious which I believe is the problem with other assaults. Even the might Atlas cannot take damage long enough as I think it should. It needs an armor quirk to boost its tanking ability. It's why I see more fast heavy and medium charges cause that speed overwhelms enemy to make them spread out and turn with less focus fire.

#35 Garou Wolfs Haven

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 04:50 AM

The current game meta means that in most cases the medium mechs, some heavies, and even some lights, are the main brawlers. The big slow mechs are best for fire support and sniping. It would be better for everyone if the team stuck together so the big bruisers can get in there but it seems that most people just are not patient enough for that.

Instead they leave their slow mechs in the open to be targets while they get points harassing the enemy. Half of the people playing this game don't even seem to mind dieing quickly or the team losing as long as they can get in there fast and score some points and C-bills, completely ignoring the fact that in most cases they are better off if the team wins.

#36 The Basilisk

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 05:53 AM

View PostFestus vanGeck, on 17 July 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

From a diary of a medium mech pilot:

UGH!

I see some really good threads out there, like "Support the Atlas" or "Follow the fracking Atlas!". I get in the game, look around for one assault mech to support with my wubcrow and... nothing. Well, there's that one DWF with PPCs and Gauss' hiding several hundred meters behind the frontline. Or another one filled to the brim with LRMs, tucked behind a wall, desperately trying to get a lock while our fronline's getting obliterated, because half of our tonnage is afraid to get it's paint scratched.

Oh wait, what's that far away in the distance, is that...? Yeah, there's our ECM brawling Atlas, poking the enemy with his only LL, hiding for 2 minutes once somebody points a small laser at him. Wow, such courage, much tactics. Wow.

Apline peaks uphill attack. Do you know what it takes to make a line of assault mechs to move up and do their jobs? It's easy: put a medium mech in front of them, so they can all hide behind him while he facetanks everything during his uphill stride. Sounds absurd, but I can't count how many times I've done that in my SCR. Sad part is - this actually works. I might explode, but at least our assaults get in the enemy's face, instead of poking from an unfavourable position until they die one by one.

Is there a sticker on the assault mechs that says "Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE put your mech in a position where it can do it's job. You might get shot at, and that's very, very bad!". I seem to have missed it. Or does PGI require a sacrifice of your testicles once you attempt to buy an assault mech in the store?

I've played about a dozen games today morning and haven't seen one (ONE!) assault willing to get in front of the group and kick the enemy in the face. If you're not willing to do that, think about playing mediums or lights, everyone will have a better time. I feel an assault mech leading the team is like an unicorn these days.

On the other hand, if you do get in front, I will be right on your wing. I will blow parts off everything that dares to look at you. Every light mech that gets close will get a swift kick in the nuts. I will get in front of you and delay the enemy until you can get into a good position. I will watch all your blind spots. We'll be BFF until the end of time.

DO YOUR JOB SO THE OTHER 8-10 PEOPLE CAN DO THEIRS.

'Kay?


You discribed the current situation very well....maybe a bit onesided and exaggerated.

So why is this so....

Because :

Those effin light and medium pilots use Assaults as effin meatshields, block and hinder them run through their firing lanes, leave them to the wolves when things turn sour and do all and every other silly thing save supporting them.

Besides "follow the Atlas" doesn't meen tiptoe behind.
The Atlas is not your Meatshield, it is not your wolvesbait and not your excuse to not getting damage and dieing first in game thats a mediums job.
The Atlas is the reason your team winns at the end of the game.
It is the one who whipes the floor and collects the bones of enemys you left for them.
The term 'Assault' does not mean 'walking in front'

#37 BigFatGator

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 06:18 AM

To answer the OP, no. You don't have to have a ballectomy to play assaults. But you learn pretty quickly that charging into a group of fresh enemy mechs, even with support behind, is going to get you killed quick.

Unless it's a coordinated push, an assault leading an early game charge is just tossing his mech away. Ranged assaults are good early game in the sniping fire game, brawlers need to be patient and wait. Late-middle game in a moderately close match is when the Assaults make the difference and a push with one fresh assault leading and a couple other med or heavy mechs tagging along can really turn the tide.

Watching a 3-3 match turn to a 7-3 match in 30 seconds when a 4UAC Krab gets rolling is a thing of beauty.

#38 B L O O D W I T C H

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 06:29 AM

As sad as it is, if you think an assault, who is willing to go in for a brawl so the team can follow with a push, is rare.
I can tell you as an assault pilot, a team which is willing to follow said assault is even more rare.
That is the main reason to why assaults shift to a different playstyle these days.

#39 InspectorG

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 08:52 AM

For the spear-tip charging Atlas, you gotta realize that if you net 2 kills before you die...it was a very good push.
1 kill breaks you even and helps your team more so if you have players that can vulture.

#40 Timicon

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 08:53 AM

All I have read so far is 'Wah wah wah'
Stop with the water works people, you all know your designated roles in each match when you pick a certain mech to pilot.





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