Jump to content

Do You Have To Cut Your Balls Off To Buy An Assault Mech?


74 replies to this topic

#41 WatDo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 172 posts
  • LocationIn your base, killin' your d00ds

Posted 18 July 2015 - 12:15 PM

Yes. Stick with those assaults "hiding". Give them support on their eventual "push". Protect their flanks from attackers.

Waiting is a valid tactic. The point of the game isn't "rush rush rush gogogo send in the assaults before the 10 minute mark". If your assault group is pushing before 5 minutes, your team is either going to win in a stomp because everyone knows what they're doing or you're going to lose in a stomp because they pushed at the wrong place and time on the demands of the lighter mechs such as yourself.

Stop expecting assault mechs to toss theirselves at an enemy teams firing line so you can shoot some lazorz, and stop running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

#42 Aggravated Assault Mech

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 825 posts
  • Locationlocation location

Posted 18 July 2015 - 01:46 PM

View PostFestus vanGeck, on 17 July 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

I can't count how many times I've done that in my SCR.


Wish you had posted this in the first line so I wouldn't have wasted my time reading the diatribe.

Quote



Apline peaks uphill attack


Yeah, because pushing uphill into the strongest possible defensive position in mechs that are both slow and rely on firepower typically at waist height is a 10/10 winning tactic. Will you sign my book?

Assaults are not so one-dimensional that their only role is facetanking. A DWF set up to snipe is giving you a 1000m kill zone and all you have to do is let the enemy poke into his line of fire, rather than poking your mech into theirs.

"Just push" is the battlecry of the pub ******* that plays videogames the same way they played with little plastic dinosaurs when they were 5.

#43 Tesunie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Seeker
  • The Seeker
  • 8,478 posts
  • LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion

Posted 18 July 2015 - 07:23 PM

View PostLeif Tanner, on 18 July 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

Stop with the water works people, you all know your designated roles in each match when you pick a certain mech to pilot.


Really? Then what's my "designated" role for my mechs? I've run support lights, tanking Mediums, flanking fast heavies, and LRM based assaults. No one weight class nor mech chassis has a "designated role" that they "must do". Some chassis may be leaned more towards certain roles, but that doesn't exclude them from preforming other roles.

One dimensional thinking is what makes LRMs a "boating or go home" weapon. I don't have to boat my LRMs for them to be effective, for what I want them to do.

(Unless you mean we know what the role of our designed mechs are when we choose to pilot them, as we've designed them for that role.)

#44 Inveramsay

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 621 posts
  • LocationStar's End

Posted 20 July 2015 - 02:44 AM

I can only assume the OP isn't familiar with playing assaults, at all. Leading the charge into a fresh enemy in an atlas will only end one way and that is you in a smouldering heap. If I charge in first in my atlas I will get focussed on even by random pugs simply because it offers the biggest target by far. It also means that instead of doing 800+ damage and getting a handful of kills I will be doing 200 damage which will not help my team in the slightest. If you are facing pugs you need a screen of mediums and heavies to run interference to stop the assaults from getting slaughtered by focussed fire. Obviously there is a time and place for assault pushes, generally when the game has gone on for a few minutes and the enemy's armour is starting to look a little sad. That is the time when the assaults shine.

#45 xe N on

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,327 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 25 July 2015 - 04:55 AM

View PostFestus vanGeck, on 17 July 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

From a diary of a medium mech pilot:

UGH!



From the diary of another medium mech pilot:

The assault class is not designed for storming the front lines. They are just to slow. Just because something is named assault it does not mean that it is designed to giove you advantage in mindlessly storm into the enemy. A soldier with an assault rifle most likely will not storm into the enemy, just because he carries an assault rifle that - according to the name "assault" - should give him the advantage in doing this.

Assault battle mech class is designed for maximum firepower. Nothing more and nothing less. Huge amount of firepower but usually slow speed and low agility. Low speed and agility mean assault mechs are much better in defending a position then storming it. Because they are slow and cannot fade into cover quicly after their strike they need a little more armor to shortly protect them against enemy weapon fire. Their armor is, however, to low as that they could face tank the focus fire of 12 battlemechs ... or, considering Clan alpha strike range of around 50, even 3 battle mechs.

As a medium pilot it is not your task to help the assault class storming the front (because only idiots in assault mech would do that anyway). Your task is to be a fast skirmisher. Either protect your assault class from being flanked - so they can concentrate their long range weapon fire at the most dangerous targets instead circle helplessly to prevent a light vaporizing it's thin back armor. Or you flank by your self trying hit and run tactics to force the enemy to split their fire and attention to multiple sides.

I prefer to play in the first half of the game the assault's babysitter, because mediums will die quite fast because of the lack of armor against focus fire of multiple enemies. In the second half of the game with reduced numbers of enemies, I switch to offensive.

Further: using assaults to brawl is - imho - not optimal. They tend to be to slow to quickly react to improvise to new situations that you often face in short range combat. Sometimes you need to retreat quickly or simply chance your position. An atlas can't do that. Direwolf and King crab with dual gauss or ACs are imho optimal assaults.

I would say my Griffins are much better brawlers then my Atlas-DDC.

Edited by xe N on, 25 July 2015 - 05:13 AM.


#46 Palor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 365 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationManitowoc WI

Posted 08 August 2015 - 07:00 PM

When I play my atlas, I play it for what it is, a heavy hitting enemy formation breaking monster. Sadly 9/10 times I lead a charge, as soon as my team starts getting hit, they run off. The scattering enemy soon notices the lone atlas and they reform, atlas goes down. That 1/10 time the team pushes and follows through we stomp the enemy through and through.

Assaults are not meant to hide, cower and waste space.

#47 Kodyn

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 1,326 posts
  • LocationNY, USA

Posted 08 August 2015 - 07:38 PM

It all boils down to...

Assaults are not, by and large, meant to lead pushes, they're meant to be in the main death ball behind the brawling meds and heavies, so they can bring their firepower to bear, not have their massive hitboxes abused by being out in front and torn apart before firing two shots, thus wasting their tonnage.

Yes, some assaults can be set up in a way that they can make good lead pushers, and some are fast enough to do so, but it's not the majority. Get used to it, it's the game. Don't let the name "assault" dictate what the mech is supposed to do, in this case, it's just another word for "heavier than heavy".

Edited by Kodyn, 08 August 2015 - 07:38 PM.


#48 Wildstreak

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Civil Servant
  • Civil Servant
  • 4,429 posts
  • LocationFiguring out why I still play MWO

Posted 08 August 2015 - 07:56 PM

Wow, what a thread title.

Well, seems lately some Assaults are LRMing. Atlas, Dire, Warhawk, Stalker, usually LRM boats.

The fighting Assaults look to be Executioners, Banshees, some Battlemasters, Misery, Victor, most Zeus.

Look for the ones in the above sentence.

#49 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,677 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 08 August 2015 - 08:05 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 08 August 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

Wow, what a thread title.

Well, seems lately some Assaults are LRMing. Atlas, Dire, Warhawk, Stalker, usually LRM boats.

The fighting Assaults look to be Executioners, Banshees, some Battlemasters, Misery, Victor, most Zeus.

Look for the ones in the above sentence.


Can a Dire be a LRM boat? Does it have the 4+ Missile hardpoints needed? With 50.5 tons for weapons, I sincerely can't ever see LRMs on a DWF be anything other than secondary weapons.

#50 Nerdboard

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 226 posts

Posted 09 August 2015 - 06:49 AM

Yes it is annoying when people wait for you to engage just to fire from a safe distance and maybe even get the kill while you die horribly. And, also yes, it might feel even worse when said person sits in an 80+ ton mech which might or might not actually have survived the attacks which you took and died to.

However not everyone wants to play their assault as a brawler. If you run ~50 kp/h and have mostly LRM's equipped you might not want to run a 500m free field up to the enemy. Or even if you have a brawler but you weapon range is limited to 270m you also might not want to do the same since you'll end the game with 0 dmg and thats ususally not fun. The main point here also is that as an assault pilot you also cant be sure if people would even make use of your sacrifice. 'Having balls' can really fast change into being 'stupid and suicidal' when the rest of your team decided it wasnt time to push.

The main point here is to always try to view things from the other persons standpoint. I play mostly medium and would consider myself a teamplayer. But even so I cant count the times I've been in the heat of battle and run after a cored mech to get the kill. When I turn back I see my assault getting killed from the back by two light mechs. If he now decides to change his loadout and go for some 'egoplaystyle' in his next match I can hardly blame him, can I?

So the only advice I could give is to always set the example and be what you want others to be. And if you want lots of teamplay you should join a unit or drop with a lance of friends.

#51 Wildstreak

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Civil Servant
  • Civil Servant
  • 4,429 posts
  • LocationFiguring out why I still play MWO

Posted 10 August 2015 - 06:20 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 08 August 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:


Can a Dire be a LRM boat? Does it have the 4+ Missile hardpoints needed? With 50.5 tons for weapons, I sincerely can't ever see LRMs on a DWF be anything other than secondary weapons.

A Mech doesn't need 4+ Missile hardpoints to be an LRM boat.
Lights & Mediums can get by with 1 big or 2 smaller launchers.
Heavies and Assaults with up to 2 big ones count.
I have seen Dires with LRMs, they sit in the back and just LURM.
Even had a match where all 3 of our Assaults did it, 1 LURMDire, 1LURMAtlas, 1 other LURMAssault. Since all enemy Assaults were fighters, we got rolled and the LURMAssaults were the last to die.

#52 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,677 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 10 August 2015 - 06:30 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 10 August 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

A Mech doesn't need 4+ Missile hardpoints to be an LRM boat.
Lights & Mediums can get by with 1 big or 2 smaller launchers.
Heavies and Assaults with up to 2 big ones count.
I have seen Dires with LRMs, they sit in the back and just LURM.
Even had a match where all 3 of our Assaults did it, 1 LURMDire, 1LURMAtlas, 1 other LURMAssault. Since all enemy Assaults were fighters, we got rolled and the LURMAssaults were the last to die.


on an assault mech, you need at least a tube count of 50+ maybe 45 on the low end.

A light LRM boat plays differently, and in a completely different role. Assault LRMs are artillery mechs.

With the tonnage on the DWF, these launchers would still be secondary weapons, and those Lurmassaults dying is great proof of how badly played LRM assaults ruin the game.

#53 Tesunie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Seeker
  • The Seeker
  • 8,478 posts
  • LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion

Posted 10 August 2015 - 06:43 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 10 August 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

... and those Lurmassaults dying is great proof of how badly played LRM assaults ruin the game.


But has no indication on how a good LRM assault (or other LRM based mech) can be good. (Just saying... :ph34r: )

#54 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,677 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 10 August 2015 - 07:40 PM

View PostTesunie, on 10 August 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:


But has no indication on how a good LRM assault (or other LRM based mech) can be good. (Just saying... :ph34r: )

Absolutely. I wasn't bashing LRMs, or good LRM assaults. Just showing that badly played ones are a real problem.

#55 Wildstreak

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Civil Servant
  • Civil Servant
  • 4,429 posts
  • LocationFiguring out why I still play MWO

Posted 11 August 2015 - 03:34 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 10 August 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:


on an assault mech, you need at least a tube count of 50+ maybe 45 on the low end.

A light LRM boat plays differently, and in a completely different role. Assault LRMs are artillery mechs.

With the tonnage on the DWF, these launchers would still be secondary weapons, and those Lurmassaults dying is great proof of how badly played LRM assaults ruin the game.

MWO myth.
Just one example, all those 3 LRM10 Zeus-6T.
Some MWO players made up these 'tube counts.'

#56 Widowmaker1981

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • 4,664 posts
  • LocationAt the other end of the pretty lights.

Posted 11 August 2015 - 04:15 AM

This is totally dependent on the assault mech to be honest. Zeus or Atlas with a decent sized standard engine? Excellent push leader, and probably comes with a SRM18 missile fist for added close range winning. Dire Wolf? WORST push leader in the game. Too slow bar far, not agile enough to twist the incoming damage. Just gonna die if it tries. Dakka Wolf is best for pushing but still not good.

To be quote fing honest the Stormcrow is probably one of the best mechs in the game for being first through the breach. Its fast and oddly shaped enough for a lot of damage to miss, and agile/well hitboxed enough to spread it around. Plus people will stop shooting it and switch to easier targets when they appear, unlike the poor Dire that tries to lead a push, who will get CT focused until dead, every time.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 11 August 2015 - 04:16 AM.


#57 Josef Koba

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 527 posts

Posted 11 August 2015 - 04:59 AM

Pugging is a fickle beast. The usual lack of coordination makes everyone cautious, perhaps overly so most of the time. I can't blame my fellow assaults for not rushing into battle when they've been conditioned to realize that doing so means instant death. Coordinated pushes almost NEVER work, no matter if it's set up via VOIP or chat, because almost no one ever pushes. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone say push, I've pushed, and realized that I've done so alone. The guy who called for the push didn't even go. Couple this with the fact that even experienced players who are on teams suddenly forget how to be situationally aware once the drop solo. I was in a match last night on the new River City in which the team was spread out over at least ten grids. Probably more. It was actually amazing how spread out everyone was. There was no coordination whatsoever, even with one guy calling out the location of the enemy. No one moved to engage; they just kept going in their own random directions. There's often no sense of urgency in PUG matches. No aggression.

Of course, aggression and patience are paradoxical in their relationship. Some situations call for patience, especially in PUG land. You know there are twelve individual pilots on the OPFOR. If you can convince your team to be patient, they will get impatient, and you can pick them off easily - because again, no one ever pushes in a coordinated way. On the other hand, there's often an utter lack of aggression and responsiveness. This goes along with no situational awareness, obviously. But you'll be watching the mini map, seeing your entire left flank under assault, and no one shifts their positions. They just stay put, as if waiting their turn to die.

I've no problem taking my lumps in a match. If the team is going to push a position, I'm ready to go in and trade blows with the enemy. I don't even mind dying if my death means the team will be at an advantage (though obviously I'd rather survive). But it's a rare day when you find a team which operates that way. It's almost as if they believe, individually, that if they don't get shot they'll at least live. So they all stand around and hide, or hill hump. Then, before you know it, you're down 4 mechs. Then six. Then it's a roll. This is the problem with pugging.

Then again, sometimes you'll have an amazing match in which the team is seemingly all on the same page. Last night I had such a match while trying to level my ACHs (I'm a poor light pilot). It was one of the best matches I've ever been a part of in three years (or whatever) playing this game. And on Mordor no less (I hate that map). Each weight class did exactly what it was supposed to do, pushed at the right time, etc. It was gritty and gutsy and close. We lights rushed back to the base to deal with an Adder. Then we regrouped to rejoin the fray, and someone actually called out "Lights regrouping and coming to your position." Someone was counting down pushes. It was magical. But those instances are incredibly rare in the land of the PUG.

#58 kevin roshak

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Fearless
  • The Fearless
  • 304 posts

Posted 11 August 2015 - 11:38 AM

The other day I had a cent next to me while my team had the enemy bottled up in the hole outside the tunnel in forest colony. I was in my battlemaster. I thought oh good I see everyone pushing in and I have this support, I'll go push and flank. I should be fast enough to get out. I go into the opening and I get two alphas off before I die. My medium support left and te rest of my team stood their and sniped across the tiny opening. This happens every time I lead a charge in a pug with few exceptions. ( in this. Instance It could have been my lack of map knowledge to know people would be stupid at that choke point)

The best matches I have are often hiding while all the lrms go around me. I occasionally poke with my ACs or lasers/ppcs but I hide for the most part and wait until their are a few deaths. I move with the group and once the brawl is forced I can do large amounts of damage. But if I ever lead a charge it ends quickly for me unless the other team panics or we manage to
Come up a very wide path and I'm not the first thing they see.
Almost no mech can stand up to 4-6 mechs worth of firepower, even just a few relatively unaired snap shots will core most
Mechs regardless of what they come up agaisnt.

I don't shy away from a smart brawl or attack, and most other pilots (assault or otherwise) don't either. But trying to lead a charge on your own, with little communication or even some communication (PUGs), has proven to be suiciede again and again even when it is the best tactic.

#59 Titannium

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,267 posts

Posted 12 August 2015 - 12:04 AM

what ill be extremely happy with....

if assault lance wont be left every foking single time alone, while light+medium, HIDES and follow 1 coockie, and get destroyed one by one by enemy assaults, who are covered with medium/lights.

#60 Chados

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,947 posts
  • LocationSomewhere...over the Rainbow

Posted 12 August 2015 - 03:15 PM

That sounds like a B33f video.

"Cookie detected!"

LOL





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users