54 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

Edited by Davegt27, 19 July 2015 - 03:57 PM.

[Leiska]

My #1 advice: If you're a worthless player, don't play CW. There are many reasons why IS gets destroyed in CW, but the number uno reason is worthless players. If you can't guarantee at least 500 damage, don't even try pugging CW. 500 is really low, so most people shouldn't have trouble getting there after some practice in normal games, yet just about every IS pug is plagued by people who end up with 40 damage per mech. Heck, today I had one pug where two players failed to reach 20 damage with all their mechs combined and they weren't AFK because they were chatting the whole game.

It's simply a hopeless endeavor to try to win when you're down 3+ players before the game even begins.

ninthstreet, on 19 July 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

Also never defend a planet if at all possible unless your in a group. Always attack because all the organized groups are attacking planets. There is a good chance you end up a filler in an organized group. Only pugs are left to defend and you will be farmed if you drop pug defending.

IS doesn't attack. If you try to, you won't get a game at all.

Edited by Leiska, 19 July 2015 - 04:59 PM.

[H I A S]

DaFrog, on 19 July 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Don't take his advice either.

And get rekt.

[o0Marduk0o]

Anyone should start a clan pug survival guide. They face exactly the same problems.
It's not about IS or Clan, it's about demotivated beginners or baddies versus organized teams.

[Kin3ticX]

kauldron, on 18 July 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

All who have fought as IS have seen it. Lance upon lance, team upon team of IS PUGS mercilessly slaughtered by Clanners. Does it have to be this way?

Let's face it. We are PUGS. Our bark will always be worse than our bite (pun intended). We are not organized, and it is rather rare to see one IS PUG player who knows what he' s doing and can coordinate the others as far as battle lines are concerned, or as far as calling out targets.
This thread aims at giving some basic information for PUGS.

Of course there is always the cliche info "stay together" etc.
That, however is too general to do any good. I think we can have two separate groups of advice, one for the PUG fighters themselves, and one for the PUG Team (strategic).

Fighters:
1. Do not bring trial mechs to a fight.
2. Do not bring mechs that you do not have Master skills to a fight.
3. Always carry 1 UAV and 1 airstrike or artillery.
4. Do not bring mechs that you don't have at least 2 modules on.
5. Do not trade with clanners, particularly when you are on medium/long range, as they will almost certainly win.

Strategic.
This includes map battle lines, which targets should be primary (so that the players know to strike them even if they are not called by a team leader). For example:
1. If there is a Dire Wolf in the enemy group, then this DW is by default the primary target.

Feel free to add more, the more knowledge we have, the more PUGS will be saved.

Pretty good. I would change #2 to double basics/elite

#3 If using consumables bring 1 coolshot and 1 air/arty. UAVs are good on scouts and streakboats as a one off ECM counter. However, if you are saving for new 'mechs, you can also easily choose to use no consumables.

#4 - modules are nice to have but wont make or break your CW experience, save these for last after you get cw viable mechs first

#5 - dont make bad trades, try to get 200+ damage per mech. Try to find the right balance of dealing damage and sharing armor. You don't want to always hide in the back never taking hits but you also dont want to yolo and waste all your mechs. Cycle your mech back if you are crit but your weapons still work, you can still deal a little more damage before you go down. Getting focus fired in a push happens, but if you are screwing up 4 times in a row and getting crap damage, you need to switch up your 'mechs or how you play.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 19 July 2015 - 11:30 PM.

[Elizander]

kauldron, on 18 July 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

All who have fought as IS have seen it. Lance upon lance, team upon team of IS PUGS mercilessly slaughtered by Clanners. Does it have to be this way? Let's face it. We are PUGS. Our bark will always be worse than our bite (pun intended). We are not organized, and it is rather rare to see one IS PUG player who knows what he' s doing and can coordinate the others as far as battle lines are concerned, or as far as calling out targets. This thread aims at giving some basic information for PUGS. Of course there is always the cliche info "stay together" etc. That, however is too general to do any good. I think we can have two separate groups of advice, one for the PUG fighters themselves, and one for the PUG Team (strategic). Fighters: 1. Do not bring trial mechs to a fight. 2. Do not bring mechs that you do not have Master skills to a fight. 3. Always carry 1 UAV and 1 airstrike or artillery. 4. Do not bring mechs that you don't have at least 2 modules on. 5. Do not trade with clanners, particularly when you are on medium/long range, as they will almost certainly win.

#1-4 ensures that CW queues will remain dead.

[Vellron2005]

kauldron, on 18 July 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

All who have fought as IS have seen it. Lance upon lance, team upon team of IS PUGS mercilessly slaughtered by Clanners. Does it have to be this way?

Let's face it. We are PUGS. Our bark will always be worse than our bite (pun intended). We are not organized, and it is rather rare to see one IS PUG player who knows what he' s doing and can coordinate the others as far as battle lines are concerned, or as far as calling out targets.
This thread aims at giving some basic information for PUGS.

Of course there is always the cliche info "stay together" etc.
That, however is too general to do any good. I think we can have two separate groups of advice, one for the PUG fighters themselves, and one for the PUG Team (strategic).

Fighters:
1. Do not bring trial mechs to a fight.
2. Do not bring mechs that you do not have Master skills to a fight.
3. Always carry 1 UAV and 1 airstrike or artillery.
4. Do not bring mechs that you don't have at least 2 modules on.
5. Do not trade with clanners, particularly when you are on medium/long range, as they will almost certainly win.

Strategic.
This includes map battle lines, which targets should be primary (so that the players know to strike them even if they are not called by a team leader). For example:
1. If there is a Dire Wolf in the enemy group, then this DW is by default the primary target.

Feel free to add more, the more knowledge we have, the more PUGS will be saved.

Wow, talk about being an elitist!

You know, not everyone has money to spend on this game, and not everybody plays 12 hours a day..

I'v been playing for about 4 months now, for about 1-2 hours a day, and many times more than that, and still can't match your apsurdly high standards!

You suggest that if a new player shows up, he should not play at all? (since he has no owned mechs, and you dont want him to drop in a trial)

You suggest that only mastered mechs are worthy.. so I cannot PUG without a mastered mech, and I can't master a mech whitout pugging... not much sence there

Always carring artillery and UAV... yeah.. talk about you wanting to spend my hard-earned c-bills to provide you with locks.. maybe I wanna use.. oh..say... cool shots? Maybe I want YOU to provide your own locks? how about that?

Dont bring mecs hithout two modules... yeah, that's just pure nonsene... and very elitist attitude.. Modules provide some small advantage that a good pilot can negate easily. And I see no point in spending 9-12 milion c-bills to meet your high standards.

Do not trade with clanners? Well, as a clanner, I have to say that I'v been known to loose mechs, or half of mechs just to gauss and large lasers, without even beeing aware what direction I'm getting fired at, and even when I am aware, its just crazy to stand there and not take cover.. so your point is moot.

In conclusion:

To every new IS player... just ignore these "guidlines", play your own game, and stop lisening to elitist IS-frustrated players who go on to the forums to wee-wee and cry-baby over how they are not OP enough simply cose they play IS.

It's not worth your time and money, believe me.

Just PLAY the was YOU WANNA PLAY, and have fun.

And to all those who would tell you that your doing it wrong, or that your mech build is not "meta" enough... go suck a lemon.

Edited by Vellron2005, 19 July 2015 - 11:52 PM.

[patataman]

1) If a guy steps up and takes the role of commander, follow his orders. A bad plan is better than none. Also don't blame him if things go south... sheet happens and at least he tried.

2) Not all premades are equal, not all pugs are equal. With this i mean that IS pugs can win Clan premades, at least some of them, so please, if you see a 12 man in the OpFor, don't panic

3) When attacking, do it in waves, wait for your fatties before pushing a gate. If you die early, by default don't reinforce the previous wave, unless your team is holding a very advantageous terrain, or if you carry ecm and the other wave doesn't. Use your own judgement.

4) LRMs are difficult to use efectively, many players in CW are veterans and know how to avoid most LRM damage. LRMs have their uses, but direct fire weapons are more effective 99% of the time.


Mr Vellron2005, your experience in CW is completely different to mine:

Vellron2005, on 19 July 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

You suggest that if a new player shows up, he should not play at all? (since he has no owned mechs, and you dont want him to drop in a trial)
You suggest that only mastered mechs are worthy.. so I cannot PUG without a mastered mech, and I can't master a mech whitout pugging... not much sence there

A new player will have a hard time in the current implementation of CW with whatever mech/modules he use. CW should have a welcome warning explaining that it is a very competitive mode and should recommend to avoid the mode until the player has a mastered drop deck. Ideally CW should segregate the population according to their mechs/skills, perhaps have a "CW training mode". But it doesn't.
The mech's performance is very different with basic efficiencies or master efficiencies. You can play with 4 trials if you want, but your performance will be worse than with 4 mastered mechs.

Vellron2005, on 19 July 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

Always carring artillery and UAV... yeah.. talk about you wanting to spend my hard-earned c-bills to provide you with locks.. maybe I wanna use.. oh..say... cool shots? Maybe I want YOU to provide your own locks? how about that?

Not locks. Intel. An UAV that is launched above a flanking force will save the team collective asses, and probably win the battle. For a mere 40.000 cbills. Btw, my 40.000 cbills are not easier to earn than yours. That said, use what you want.

Vellron2005, on 19 July 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

Dont bring mecs hithout two modules... yeah, that's just pure nonsene... and very elitist attitude.. Modules provide some small advantage that a good pilot can negate easily. And I see no point in spending 9-12 milion c-bills to meet your high standards.

Seismic sensor allows you to see enemies behind terrain. I'd say that's a BIG advantage. Radar Deprivation allow you to loose the missile locks inmediately, terrain is better, but having both is even better. Advanced zoom allow you to snipe with a lot more precission. Can you use 0 modules? Yes, of course, but it will affect your performance.
Weapon modules? Yeah, you can skip them if you don't have the money.

Vellron2005, on 19 July 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

Do not trade with clanners? Well, as a clanner, I have to say that I'v been known to loose mechs, or half of mechs just to gauss and large lasers, without even beeing aware what direction I'm getting fired at, and even when I am aware, its just crazy to stand there and not take cover.. so your point is moot.

Some IS mechs are quirked for long range and can be effective in a long range trade against clan mechs. SOME. Since we are talking about CW pugs, a wave with 12 stalkers-4n is unlikely to happen. All clan mechs can use clan long range weaponry. Don't trade at long ranges against the clans unless you have superior numbers of the right mechs. Just don't trade. Not worth the risk.

Vellron2005, on 19 July 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

In conclusion:

To every new IS player... just ignore these "guidlines", play your own game, and stop lisening to elitist IS-frustrated players who go on to the forums to wee-wee and cry-baby over how they are not OP enough simply cose they play IS.

It's not worth your time and money, believe me.

Just PLAY the was YOU WANNA PLAY, and have fun.

And to all those who would tell you that your doing it wrong, or that your mech build is not "meta" enough... go suck a lemon.

Play the way you want and have fun. Of course, this x 1000. But that's not incompatible with listening to other players ADVICE. To new IS players: Welcome XD Don't believe us, test the things that you read in these kind of threads in the battlefield and see what's true and what's false. If you die early, watch how other players play, and learn from them. That's valid both for CW or normal matches.

Edited by patataman, 20 July 2015 - 01:16 AM.

[ninthstreet]

Leiska, on 19 July 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

My #1 advice: If you're a worthless player, don't play CW. There are many reasons why IS gets destroyed in CW, but the number uno reason is worthless players. If you can't guarantee at least 500 damage, don't even try pugging CW. 500 is really low, so most people shouldn't have trouble getting there after some practice in normal games, yet just about every IS pug is plagued by people who end up with 40 damage per mech. Heck, today I had one pug where two players failed to reach 20 damage with all their mechs combined and they weren't AFK because they were chatting the whole game.

It's simply a hopeless endeavor to try to win when you're down 3+ players before the game even begins.


IS doesn't attack. If you try to, you won't get a game at all.

You must be a loyalist because Kurita and FRR are very offensive oriented. There is a lot of chatter in faction chat telling people which planet to concentrate on.

[Leiska]

ninthstreet, on 20 July 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

You must be a loyalist because Kurita and FRR are very offensive oriented. There is a lot of chatter in faction chat telling people which planet to concentrate on.

I'm not a loyalist and I've hopped through both FRR and Kurita for their rank 6 mech bays. Neither faction ever attacked.

[Koshirou]

ninthstreet, on 20 July 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

You must be a loyalist because Kurita and FRR are very offensive oriented. There is a lot of chatter in faction chat telling people which planet to concentrate on.

Your information is very much out of date. Current state of Kurita: Crickets and tumbleweed. Attacks don't happen.

P.S.: Also a simple look at CW would show you that Kurita rarely ever attacks anymore. The same is largely true for the other IS factions. The short MS stint in the FRR - over now, I take it - was but a small dent in that general trend.

Edited by Koshirou, 21 July 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[Moldur]

There is a guide in my sig. There is a powerpoint in the 1st post. On page 59 and 60ish, there is a crash course guide on what you should drop with. That alone would improve the quality of pug life.

[Koshirou]

My IS pug survival guide:

a.) Don't defend, attack!
b.) ... other IS factions.

[Kin3ticX]

Koshirou, on 21 July 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Your information is very much out of date. Current state of Kurita: Crickets and tumbleweed. Attacks don't happen.

P.S.: Also a simple look at CW would show you that Kurita rarely ever attacks anymore. The same is largely true for the other IS factions. The short MS stint in the FRR - over now, I take it - was but a small dent in that general trend.

FRR loves them some Mercstar

[Kiiyor]

My tip? Play to YOUR strengths. If you like hanging back a little and sniping, and are comfortable with that, then DO it. Don't take your fragile XL Jagermech into a push because some PUG 4 man commander insists that you need to be shoulder to shoulder.

If you like taking LRM's, then do it.

If you like brawling, then take brawlers... just be aware that most CW, especially in PUGS, is longer range.

CW, especially in the pug queues, and especially in the pug 'sphere queues, can SUCK if someone else is trying to force you into their play style.

As long as you support the team, feel free to do it your way.

[Heart of Storm]

Key tip is teamwork, listen to the chat and contribute. A silent team is a team thats going to lose. Call targets, focus fire big threats and stay with the group,ramboing doesnt work in CW,period.

Regarding trading, the reason you dont trade with clans is because they will generally do better then you. Clan weapons (generally) do more damage in exchange for more heat, by trading through the gate your allowing clan mechs to appear, throw out and alpha or two then retreat and cool down, as they hit harder they will generally win this.

The trick to beating clanners is to get in their face, an average clan mech can generally squeeze off 1-2 alphas before running into heat issues, IS can generally sustain fire a lot longer, dont give clanners time to cool down,push them hard and laugh as they overheat or have to drop down to firing single weapons whilst you alpha them in the face.

Otherwise, OPs original points stand. Id recommend not taking UAVs on every mech, lights and mediums should definetly take them, assaults and heavies generally benefit more from coolshot as they're unlikely to be able to maneouver into a position to place a UAV well.

Oh, and bring ECM

[Jumping Gigolo]

+1 to Heart of Storm. finally someone from IS realized what IS can take advantage of when fighting Clan mechs.


Furthermore, if you played Clan you will understand what Clan hate when against fighting IS which are (but not limited to):

1. As Heart of Storm stated IS has superior heat efficiency than Clans. Clan hates overheating in the middle of battle on the wrong place at the wrong time. While we try our best to manage this risk time and time again it will eventually happen. So use this moment in killing us.

2. IS Large Lasers (IS LL quirk spamming). Contrary to popular belief IS actually outranges and outsnipes Clan mech since most Clan player wont use cERLL due to horrendous heat and laser duration. Clanners usually use cLPL or Gauss as standoff weapons. So use you Large Lasers BUT ONLY WHEN DEFENDING. Abuse your LL is you want when defending but minimize LL's when attacking so change your dropdeck and field more brawling mechs because any decent Clan player will never poke and trade shots with IS LL outside the gate.

3. Crazy Dragons with crazy autocannons. Nuff said.

4. Super-cool Thunderwubs. Nuff said.

5. What is even more frustrating for a Clanner is getting himself killed by zombie Stalker who's down to 19%. (that F%$# Stalker just wont die!!!)

Others can add to this list. Just food for thought to you Inner sphere scums eerr I mean Inner sphere warriors. Information is ammunition.

Edited by Jumping Gigolo, 22 July 2015 - 03:02 AM.

[DaFrog]

HiasRGB, on 19 July 2015 - 10:25 PM, said:

And get rekt.

Funny, you're in a clan that uses tons of lrm boats on certain maps. You're a hypocrite.

[kauldron]

Thank you all for the great input. I am sorry if some people found my opinions "elitist". They are meant as advice, of course. However, I believe that, as others have said, CW IS a very competitive mode, so players who like to play with trial mechs, would be better off playing in normal mode. One may claim that this is elitistic, but there is the answer that it's quite selfish to say "I am going to drop in 4 trial mechs, do 20 damage, and I don't care if my teammates are going to get slaughtered and their CW experience gets ruined". I am not claiming that I am a "good" player, I usually dont do much damage myself, but at least I play CW only in mechs I have master skills over. And yes, I do carry UAVs and airstrikes.

[Dawnstealer]

The one and only rule of PUGging is:

Even if you're doing something stupid, if ALL TWELVE PEOPLE DO IT, it will probably work. Where things fall apart is when the prebuilt says "push!" and the PUGs, or some of the PUGs, hang back, or get hit going through the door and stop, or turn the wrong way, or...

You get the point.

I've been that PUG before, dropping with a prebuilt who isn't bothering to communicate, and see them all push one way that's almost certainly going to kill the whole team, but that's the way the team's going, sooo...

And then it somehow works out because we all did it as a team.

Things fall apart when you split. This is a game of accurate fire and deathballs:

1) Shoot at the mechs with the solid triangles over their heads

2) Communicate enemy pushes/flanks

3) Move with the group

4) Don't run off solo - I don't care how good an individual player you are: THIS. DOESN'T. HELP.