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Shadow Cat... Help!


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#1 Kaldrenborn

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 11:05 PM

I love my shadowcat, it's a blast. I am not really sure how to effectively utilize this mech, it's been kicking my ass!

Here's what I have so far:

Prime
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bd6dcfd81d73588

A
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...573765a436c547d

B
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5bb2d62c0b3bc91

*I don't have the P-variant, and armor distribution isn't exact.

Thanks in advance!

#2 N a p e s

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 03:29 AM

Well one quick thing looking at your builds is that you are stacking AP and ECM. I don't think this is necessary and if memory serves you don't get any bonus for having both. That frees up a ton for an extra DHS in basically all cases.

You've got some of the standard builds for Shadowcats so maybe you just have to give it some time.

If you had the P variant I'd recommend this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2601ea7e22109f1

#3 Shalune

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 03:46 AM

I'm having a rough time with it too. As far as I can tell it's a near flawless chassis for ranged hit and run:

- low profile with high mounted hardpoints
- JJ + speed
- ECM
- clan tech

Problem is it doesn't have enough energy hardpoints for an obvious close range build, and it's tough to find the tonnage and/or heat capacity for the perfect long range one.

2x LPL was my first inclination (I've got 6x MG too from the P variant) but it's an awkward build. It can do some work, but I can't justify how fragile it is next to a Stormcrow which can run it with more lasers.

So right now I'm banking on 2x PPC being more effective once I've got it all skilled up. It's already proving to be a perfect platform for the weapons, but I'm not sure if it can carry enough DHS yet. Again we'll see after pilot skills.

#4 Anunknownlurker

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 04:37 AM

I don't think there is a problem with the Shadowcat, I believe the problem is with the Stormcrow. In the current game meta - damage trumps everything - there is, quite simply, no reason to take any Clan medium OTHER than the Stormcrow. The only differentiator is ECM, but the Clan have so many options available that the SHC doesn't fit comfortably anywhere.

My feeling is that the SHC has been designed with the new "re-balancing" exercise and ECM changes in mind and it won't reveal its true potential until these changes have been made.

In the meantime I am running mine as I did in MW4 days, a pair of ERLLs, 1x Streak 6, ECM, targeting computer mk1 and a couple of extra DHS. No idea if this is optimal but it has nostalgia for me.

#5 Zookeeper Dan

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 05:08 AM

I've only had a couple games in mine so far, but it seems like playing it like the Stormcrow (or really any 55 ton mech) is a receipe for disaster. It's almost 20% lighter!

The mech that seems the closest comparison is the Cicada. They are both fairly fragile hit and run mechs. Only the Cicada uses raw speed for protection while the Shadow Cat uses range and maneuverability.

#6 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 05:23 AM

I have had some success with a build using 2 LPL and 6 MG (with 2.5 tonnes of ammo), and another with 2 ERML(right arm and torso) and Gauss (left arm) with 2 tonnes of ammo, having the 2 Lasers on the same side seems to work better than the stock Prime locations.

#7 Wildstreak

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 05:55 AM

View PostDustyHardtail, on 23 July 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

I love my shadowcat, it's a blast. I am not really sure how to effectively utilize this mech, it's been kicking my ass!

Here's what I have so far:

Prime
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bd6dcfd81d73588

A
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...573765a436c547d

B
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5bb2d62c0b3bc91

*I don't have the P-variant, and armor distribution isn't exact.

Thanks in advance!

Your Prime, I would actually switch it to mine. cLPL runs cooler than cERPPC and does more damage where it is aimed.

Your A Shplat build, try the one off my P (you do not need the P to use it), cooler, more ammo, better DPS and cooling, Artemis is not needed.

Don't know what to say about the B build, I am lost for a 4th build myself (I have the P). I was going to use 3 cERLL but that seems to have been done. Couldn't find a LRM build, may have to go with a Light Hunter using 3 Energy and 2 Streaks.

#8 ProfessorD

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 07:14 AM

I think your A and B builds look solid, actually. Those are probably close to being the best build options available for brawling and sniping, respectively.

The real trick with the Shadow Cat is that you just aren't going to fit face-melting firepower on it, now matter how you build it. You have to learn to make good use of the jets and MASC to position yourself in places other mechs couldn't reach to deliver your relatively lower firepower exactly where it makes the most difference. This is hard. Generaly, Shadow Cats just aren't going to out-perform Stormcrows.

#9 Dino Might

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 07:24 AM

Scat is not a brawler. Don't try to be one. It's too squishy.

2 ER PPCs + 2 DHS. Poptart city!
I'm not double basic'd, but I can get about 200 damage average in it. My best mech (LCT-1E) averages about 350 damage per game. These are stats averages, which means including those games where I got ganked and got sub 100 damage. If we want to talk about a good game, both Scat and LCT are in the 700-800 damage range for a good game.

Edited by Dino Might, 24 July 2015 - 07:25 AM.


#10 StormPaladin99

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 07:25 AM

Another fun P build that I've been running is dual uac2 and 2 medium lasers. It gives you some ranged poking with the uac2s but remains relatively cool.

The shad is kind of a tricky mech to get the playstyle right I find.

#11 process

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 07:26 AM

Min/maxed asymmetrical 2 large pulse laser build: SHC-PRIME

2 medium laser + large pulse laser balanced build: SHC-PRIME

#12 Kaldrenborn

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 08:59 AM

View PostPowerOfNapes, on 24 July 2015 - 03:29 AM, said:

Well one quick thing looking at your builds is that you are stacking AP and ECM. I don't think this is necessary and if memory serves you don't get any bonus for having both. That frees up a ton for an extra DHS in basically all cases.

I know it doesn't offer any bonuses, but it does allow me to counter someone elses ECM with the AP while still shielding myself and others with my own ECM (I never had to switch to counter). The other benefit is I can detect people from 1000 meters instead of 800, all while cloaked with ECM.

If I am wrong please lemme know!

View PostWildstreak, on 24 July 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

Your Prime, I would actually switch it to mine. cLPL runs cooler than cERPPC and does more damage where it is aimed.

Your A Shplat build, try the one off my P (you do not need the P to use it), cooler, more ammo, better DPS and cooling, Artemis is not needed.

Don't know what to say about the B build, I am lost for a 4th build myself (I have the P). I was going to use 3 cERLL but that seems to have been done. Couldn't find a LRM build, may have to go with a Light Hunter using 3 Energy and 2 Streaks.

I like your Prime build. More pinpoint damage, and has an anti-light streak launcher. My first idea was to poptart with the PPC and use the med pulses when I can.
I probably will try the light hunter idea..

View PostProfessorD, on 24 July 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think your A and B builds look solid, actually. Those are probably close to being the best build options available for brawling and sniping, respectively.

The real trick with the Shadow Cat is that you just aren't going to fit face-melting firepower on it, now matter how you build it. You have to learn to make good use of the jets and MASC to position yourself in places other mechs couldn't reach to deliver your relatively lower firepower exactly where it makes the most difference. This is hard. Generaly, Shadow Cats just aren't going to out-perform Stormcrows.

Thanks!

View PostDino Might, on 24 July 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

Scat is not a brawler. Don't try to be one. It's too squishy.

2 ER PPCs + 2 DHS. Poptart city!
I'm not double basic'd, but I can get about 200 damage average in it. My best mech (LCT-1E) averages about 350 damage per game. These are stats averages, which means including those games where I got ganked and got sub 100 damage. If we want to talk about a good game, both Scat and LCT are in the 700-800 damage range for a good game.

Thanks!

View PostStormagedon99, on 24 July 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

Another fun P build that I've been running is dual uac2 and 2 medium lasers. It gives you some ranged poking with the uac2s but remains relatively cool.

The shad is kind of a tricky mech to get the playstyle right I find.

I will have to try this, especially since the buff to ACs.

View Postprocess, on 24 July 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

Min/maxed asymmetrical 2 large pulse laser build: SHC-PRIME

2 medium laser + large pulse laser balanced build: SHC-PRIME

I tried the bottom one, I'll have to give the top a go...



Thanks everyone for the replies! You've been super helpful.

#13 DONTOR

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:05 AM

6MGs is Fn hilarious fun, just watch as crit limbs, side torso's, and CTs go poof under a hail of bullets. I literally started laughing as i demolished multiple parts of a mech with sustained fire.
Obviously it works best in the late part of the match, so a few long range weapons of any kind on the right side will do you well.

And if you don't have the P variant than I am sorry for you.

#14 Shadey99

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:29 AM

View PostDustyHardtail, on 24 July 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

I know it doesn't offer any bonuses, but it does allow me to counter someone elses ECM with the AP while still shielding myself and others with my own ECM (I never had to switch to counter). The other benefit is I can detect people from 1000 meters instead of 800, all while cloaked with ECM.


This isn't true. The AP WILL NOT counter ECM while you have both ECM and AP equipped. You MUST go into counter ECM mode and lose your 'shield' to counter ECM. The only benefits are the small sensor range bonus, shutdown mech detection, and the minor bonus to info time.

#15 Shadey99

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:37 AM

View PostDONTOR, on 24 July 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

And if you don't have the P variant than I am sorry for you.


Yes... Lack of the P rather sucks... I could do many more fun builds with multiple light and medium ballistics if I had the P or at least the ability to buy the damn omni limbs... The lack of multiple slots in the limbs hinders it's adaptability greatly. Right now their is basically only two right torsos to take (Missile or Energy) and not taking the ECM left torso seems kinda silly without the P option, leaving you arms with at most two hardpoints. Some 2E arms would open up a lot of options as well allowing it to at least rival the ACH in firepower.

I missed access to it by a day myself.

#16 Kaldrenborn

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:39 AM

View PostShadey99, on 24 July 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:


This isn't true. The AP WILL NOT counter ECM while you have both ECM and AP equipped. You MUST go into counter ECM mode and lose your 'shield' to counter ECM. The only benefits are the small sensor range bonus, shutdown mech detection, and the minor bonus to info time.

So you're telling me if I have my AP equiped it stops blocking ECM the moment I put my own ECM on? No way.

EDIT: Okay after much research y'all are correct. I've been playing for EVER thinking that BAP worked as a counter when ECM was equiped. Wow. The more you know!

Edited by DustyHardtail, 24 July 2015 - 09:56 AM.


#17 N a p e s

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:46 AM

View PostShadey99, on 24 July 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:


Yes... Lack of the P rather sucks... I could do many more fun builds with multiple light and medium ballistics if I had the P or at least the ability to buy the damn omni limbs... The lack of multiple slots in the limbs hinders it's adaptability greatly. Right now their is basically only two right torsos to take (Missile or Energy) and not taking the ECM left torso seems kinda silly without the P option, leaving you arms with at most two hardpoints. Some 2E arms would open up a lot of options as well allowing it to at least rival the ACH in firepower.

I missed access to it by a day myself.


Either 2E arms or 2E in the Prime RT would be great. A 2M RT for the SHC-A would be cool too and allow you to run 4xSRM4.

#18 Shadey99

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 10:58 AM

View PostPowerOfNapes, on 24 July 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

Either 2E arms or 2E in the Prime RT would be great. A 2M RT for the SHC-A would be cool too and allow you to run 4xSRM4.


I'd tend to prefer 2E arms... Mostly to do a 4ML(or SPL) arm, 1 torso LPL design. It would be a much stronger build than the current 3E possibilities. It could also do 5 MPL, which is one I plan for my IS Crab when those launch. I could get behind a 2M LT though, the option of simply moving the missiles into a single torso rather than the arms would be nice.

Since PGI seems more and more comfortable making up new variants for us (half the variants in the origins pack are all made up as well as 4th variants for Resistance I and Wave III), we may even see it some time.

#19 Wildstreak

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 06:21 PM

View PostDino Might, on 24 July 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

Scat is not a brawler. Don't try to be one. It's too squishy.

No but the ShplatCat is rather fun!

View PostShadey99, on 24 July 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:


This isn't true. The AP WILL NOT counter ECM while you have both ECM and AP equipped. You MUST go into counter ECM mode and lose your 'shield' to counter ECM. The only benefits are the small sensor range bonus, shutdown mech detection, and the minor bonus to info time.

There is a bonus AP gives for LRMs.

#20 dragnier1

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 02:40 AM

I've read that lasers with missiles work for it, somewhat like a "splathawk" or "splatfin". Haven't run it myself, so i can't tell.

Edit: Btw i opted against ac10 with 2 miserable lasers

Edited by dragnier1, 25 July 2015 - 02:40 AM.






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