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Cw And The New Servers


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#1 50 50

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 06:56 PM

At present they are not looking to have CW function on the other servers and will keep it on the NA server.
However, I am wondering if this is part of the reason for poor numbers in CW.

There have been comments in the past that during an attack phase, there can be a rush of battles right at the end to get the planet allegiance to change.
If players had been battling away all day in an invasion, they can then lose all the territory after they log off and another faction swoops in.
It seems to discourage continual active participation.

I was wondering if the invasions should be split into three zones.
These zones are only open during the prime times that relate to the server timezones.
Each zone has it's own areas to contest and are independent of each other.
At the end of the invasion period, the faction that controls the most zones (ie. best of 3) has succeeded in gaining control of the planet.

There are other aspects of community warfare that need to be considered to improve participation, but I was wondering if this split might address one of them.

It may also be a way to introduce different variables for each invasion by making each server zone unique.
For example, for one particular invasion, the NA zone may be contesting the arid band and have only the desert maps. Where as the EU zone may be in the jungles.
Mix it up on each planet.
Can also show more stats and tags on each zone.

#2 Kin3ticX

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 01:40 AM

Interesting idea. If I am reading this right you are saying right....

EUROPE ->USEAST -> OCEANIC -> rinse repeat (so everyone playing norm has the best ping)

I don't know enough to weigh all the pros and cons. One obvious negative impact would be high pings for early and late players, but I'm all for nice pings around the house.

Should tweet that to Russ to see if its even possible.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 25 July 2015 - 01:43 AM.


#3 50 50

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 10:57 PM

That's a good point about the pings. I hadn't been thinking along those lines.

My thoughts were more along the possibility of preserving players efforts in a time zone so it's not all undone during their down time.
So at the end of the attack phase on a particular server, the status of those territories is preserved and we don't get to contest them again until that server's attack phase comes around again.
It might look something like this, and please excuse my poor attempts at drawing something in Paint:
Posted Image
Visually we see three points on each planet for the invasion, each belonging to one of the servers and one of the timezones.
Each of these areas has a number of territories that belong to it and they are only accessible during the attack phase for that server.
We can see the status of the territories in each zone and see how it is going overall.
While it would certainly be possible to engage in the conflict on more than one zone, it may encourage units in those zones to be more active and take ownership of their territories as it's less likely to lose them all while they are sleeping.

#4 BSK

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 11:14 PM

This would bring us back to a 24 hour attack phase with one single cease fire ..

#5 Araevin Teshurr

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 11:57 AM

The restriction of time zones kinda sucks.
Move the game more towards mission rewards.
Give units only missions assigned by their houses/clans to attack planet X or defend planet Y.
The server can disperse orders to untis known to be active and keep the ball rolling.

#6 50 50

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 03:45 PM

@BSK
it would in one sense as the active zone shifts and it could be seen as being continuous.
On the other hand, the inactive zones could be seen as having a long cease fire.

@Araevin
Keep in mind that there is nothing stopping players from joining in the battle in another timezone.
The concept I'm looking at here is whether or not having the invasion split over the multiple servers and using timezones would help preserve the efforts of the players and therefore encourage more people to be involved.

At the moment, we have the 8hr attack phase, a cease fire, then off we go again. But it's all for the same territories.
One of the points that has been made in a few other spots on the forums is how players have been fighting to capture the territories, but after logging off, they lose all those territories again as players on the other side of the world get involved and they are not able to defend their holdings.
But by splitting it up, players can fight up to the cease fire point and then know that when they are next online and their attack phase starts, the territories would be as they were at the point of the ceasefire.

As for missions, I'm all for that sort of thing being introduced and I believe this is what the scouting 4v4 missions are going to introduce more of.
To put that in perspective with how it would fit in with the split over the servers, each of the timezones need the same things accomplished and we could therefore see a different status for each depending on how well the forces in those zones are going.
For example:

NA Server - Zone 1.
Designation Kilo.
Attack phase UTC+08:00 to UTC+16:00
3 Zones scouted.
Orbital Cannons not secured
Planetary landing on hold.

EU Server - Zone 2.
Designation Foxtrot.
Attack phase UTC+16:00 to UTC-00:00
4 Zones scouted.
2 Orbital Cannons captured
Planetary landing on hold.

OC Server - Zone 3.
Designation Oscar.
Attack phase UTC+00:00 to UTC+08:00
4 Zones scouted.
4 Orbital Cannons captured
Planetary landing in progress.

#7 Kodyn

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 04:19 PM

I think the main reason for low number s in CW is that there's no one wanting to play CW....it's boring, there's zero point, and for many of us, the FPS drop on CW maps is pretty extreme.

If they ever fix it and make a CW with a purpose, and actual interesting gameplay, then I'm sure the numbers will go back up.

#8 Thumper3

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 09:07 AM

View Post50 50, on 26 July 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

At the moment, we have the 8hr attack phase, a cease fire, then off we go again. But it's all for the same territories.
One of the points that has been made in a few other spots on the forums is how players have been fighting to capture the territories, but after logging off, they lose all those territories again as players on the other side of the world get involved and they are not able to defend their holdings.
But by splitting it up, players can fight up to the cease fire point and then know that when they are next online and their attack phase starts, the territories would be as they were at the point of the ceasefire.


I see what you are saying.

Ideally, obviously, the plan would be for the folk in that faction in the other time zones to pick up the slack......or to hire mercs in the time zone they have no coverage to shore up their defenses. But then we would need mercs to be mercs. And then you roll right into the issue of unit tags meaning more than faction tags.

I think this is a great idea, at least until population gets up enough and sorted to where there's a good spread to populate all factions and give enough battles to everyone.

#9 DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 10:07 AM

Large single faction groups often attack.

Individual fighters, from different factions, tend to set up for defense (there's no grouping function for defense).

By the immediate nature of this Attacking is simple, easy and relatively similar to when 8 man groups were allowed to fight in the public queue.

Make it easier for interfaction groups to group up and defend and you'll have better fights on defense.

(I.e., I have 4 of my DSx members, I invited 4 CSJ, and 4 CGB and we fight on defense.... we will potentially give a better fight than having the sad mixture that is right now).

#10 50 50

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 07:34 PM

I have a feeling you can join in on another faction's attack provided you are on the same Clan/IS side of things and in the team listing it simply shows all players with the same faction badge.
Is that correct?
Doesn't do it that way on defence and you do see mixed teams commonly.
Can any one confirm that?

@Thumper3
That is it exactly.
It allows for people in those regions to be responsible for their attack lanes and the contest of the planet decided on a best of three basis.
Should the players/units in one timezone see that the other timezones are not going so well, they can organise mercs or their own unit to join in when that attack lane opens up.

It creates a bit of a strategic level to the deployment when you think about it.

#11 slide

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 09:32 PM

Interesting but some questions.

When would the ceasefire be?
-ie once each TZ has had a chance.

What are the win (capture) conditions?.
-Ie does each TZ have to capture 2 sectors of 3 (in your example) = 6 sectors
-or would it be 6 sectors total. For example if NA wins 3 sectors, then oceanic ghost drops 3 wins, does EU have nothing to do(planet won)?
- or NA 3W , OC 1 W leaving EU needing 2 sectors to take the planet.

There are a lot of combinations here that could lead to just as much frustration as we have now.

#12 50 50

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 07:13 PM

Hi Slide, thank you for your reply.

If each server time zone (lets call them attack lanes) had an 8 hour attack cycle and they conveniently went back to back it would mean that the planet was effectively being contested for a full 24 hours, but each attack lane would then have a 16 hour cease fire.
So depending on where you are in the world, the battle is ongoing but you may end up participating in more than one attack lane.
If there are more forces still involved, the attack lane may re-open once it comes back around.

We would want to have the planet open for attack for longer as a result, but that duration should be influenced by other factors such as logistics and attrition of forces instead of a hard coded duration. That is really a topic for a different post but I could elaborate on my thoughts more if it would clarify things.

My thought is that there should be more layers/stages to the invasion so that little picture is not taking into consideration some other aspects.
However, the win conditions become a best of three. The faction that holds 2 or more attack lanes takes or maintains control of the planet.
So in that example, if the defenders are considered to be holding all the sites in all three attack lanes, the attackers must control all sites in at least 2 attack lanes to win. The defenders would need to hold onto and control 2 of the attack lanes to win.
There needs to be more of a dynamic to it, but that is the general idea.
2 lanes, all 3 sectors in both lanes.
Each lane is independent.
Could have more sectors per lane, but it is already heavily stacked towards the defender and I think it would be much more interesting to have a second stage for a new ongoing battle on a bigger scale.

Your other question does raise some good points.
Should 2 attack lanes be taken, the 3rd does not need to be contested but there should be incentive to do so.
One thought is that the reward at the end of the conflict, like we are seeing with the comstar intercepts at the moment, is adjusted according to how many lanes are held.
If you control 2 of the attack lanes, fantastic, you get the stated reward.
But control all three and that's a bonus on top.

Another idea I just had could be for follow up rebellions/raids on the planet if one of the attack lanes was controlled by the other side.
This is a bit of a side thought but it might provide an interesting dynamic to the system if skirmishes broke out on the planet due to remaining enemy forces still on the surface. That would be a great option for these comstar intercepts and to use the standard maps with a single wave, good for casual drops.
Hmmmm..... probably want some flow on effect from it... that would be an interesting idea to discuss though.

Edited by 50 50, 20 September 2015 - 07:19 PM.


#13 50 50

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 05:24 AM

I'm raising this point again after seeing the exchange of planets in the first 24 hours after the Phase 3 patch.
By the time I got home from work after the patch was released early in the morning in my time zone, Ghost Bear had lost 2 planets to the FRR another in the following few hours and probably more over night.

Just seems way too fast.
If a single faction is successful enough, it can take 3 planets in a 24 hour period.
That's 21 planets in a week.
Some factions only have a handful of planets.
Liao and Marik could swap over!
Do we really need the map to be changing so fast and so dramatically?

No.

But what about the planet rewards I hear you say.
I think we could do better than MC for a start, but if each planet had three sections one for each server/timezone then it would be possible to mark the sections with the unit tag that dominated there and the unit gets the reward for that section.
If a unit gets all three sections, well, they get all three rewards.
Pretty simple.... but we need something better suited to what faction play is than just MC.

In fact...on the subject of the planet rewards, why not a simple logistical effect.
The unit gets +5 tons to their drop deck limit up to a maximum bonus of +something.
Start with lower limits across the board
(That was a spur of the moment idea but I reckon giving out MC is a poor option)

Back to the split timezone thing.
Not only does it give players in the different region a chance to participate in the control of a planet, but as Kin3tiX pointed out, there is a ping difference so players and units in a more favourable zone can have a better influence on the outcome. (all other factors aside)

Be nicer for more people to be able to say that they were there at the battle of 'planet x' and we fought hard in sector 2 to hold the line.
etc.

#14 nehebkau

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 05:43 AM

View Post50 50, on 24 July 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:



I was wondering if the invasions should be split into three zones.
These zones are only open during the prime times that relate to the server timezones.
Each zone has it's own areas to contest and are independent of each other.
At the end of the invasion period, the faction that controls the most zones (ie. best of 3) has succeeded in gaining control of the planet.



That's actually a pretty good idea. Open each segment for each 8-hour phase then close it afterwards rather than having a cease fire after each phase. My only concern is that there would need to be an opportunity to open more planets to attack -- even multiple attack-able planets in one faction. That way, in the heavier user periods, you are not going to get FW bottlenecks for attacking players.

Edited by nehebkau, 27 April 2016 - 05:44 AM.


#15 vocifer

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 06:35 AM

There are two ways to drive CW into EU & Oceanic TZ's:

1. Rotate the servers (as OP suggests). That means, two of the server groups will be shut down during the 8 hr period, while the third one is serving. But there's a problem. No sane administrator will use his hardware for only 33% time capacity.
Ofcourse, you can have additional QP instances on standby, which you can enable when CW ones go down... But do they really need an increased capacity of, say, Oceanic QP servers during non-Oceanic prime-time?

As a cloud admin, I would not go this way.

2. Use three groups of servers in parallel (like QP currently), with an option for DC to choose a server or based on a frontline (like OP suggests). This makes more efficient use of available resources, and PGI will more likely go this way, but:

There is not enough population to split among different servers.


So we kinda stuck with only NA for now.

Edited by vocifer, 27 April 2016 - 06:57 AM.


#16 50 50

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 04:04 AM

That's a really good point vocifer. It does need to make economic sense in terms of hosting. I am only suggesting it for faction play. We leave all the quick play matches available on each server.

One of my hopes in having the attack phase alternate on the different servers is in getting units in different timezones to co-ordinate a bit more, form alliances and so on. The ability to connect to the servers wouldn't be restricted but obviously players in the different time zones would favour one server over the rest. Units that span the timezones and servers should be able to co-ordinate efforts amongst their members.

With the limited population across factions in the game at the moment nehebkau, it might be ok to have the limited attack and defense options. I imagine the number of planets that can be attacked could be scaled according to population, but the tighter lanes of attack and defense helps create faster conflicts. The same could be done with the number of sectors available under each server zone. With the added scout mode, (and lets hope we see another mode added at some point as well), it's effectively 16 players/sector/faction at a time. If there were 3 sectors in each timezone, that's 96 players going at once.... possibly more given the faster turn around of scout missions. In some ways, limited sectors may help spread out the population across the factions if they have to wait too long.

Edited by 50 50, 28 April 2016 - 04:15 AM.


#17 50 50

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 01:47 AM

Actually, seeing as the servers in the different regions are already being rented for the hosting, splitting the attack phases over the servers may not make any difference in terms of the cost to host.

The NA Server is going fine, but dividing the invasion over the servers may increase the involvement for players in those regions.

#18 50 50

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 08:30 PM

Seeing the new changes in the 4.1 version of Faction Play released in Dec 2016 and in light of Operation Great Dane, a community inspired and organised event I am raising this suggestion again.

One of the points raised by those who participated was that the different time zones can create great fluctuations on the results.

The premise of this topic was to break up the zones so that each recorded it's own result and we can use the three servers for the local regions. With the new tug of war system it's not really much different. We simply have three tug of war markers, one for each server and then base the end result on the overall success. So if one side has succeeded in winning in two of the time zones, then the control of the planets changes. IT doesn't stop players from fighting in another time zone on the other servers, but it will mean that the efforts of players during their prime time on their server is not lost.

#19 Stormie

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:38 PM

All of this is already the case except for each timezone playing on their.local server. There are planets up for grabs and decided by the one attack phase already, have I missed some other part of your suggestion?

#20 50 50

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 05:42 PM

Does it take 3 attack phases over the course of 24 hours to determine if the planets are won or lost?





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