92 replies to this topic

[Tahribator]

The Orion is sadly not comparable to a TBR in most situations. The most equal fight would be in a brawl, I'd even give a proper built Orion the upper hand due to superior durability. Otherwise they're far from equal.

[Averen]

Tahribator, on 26 July 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

The Orion is sadly not comparable to a TBR in most situations. The most equal fight would be in a brawl, I'd even give a proper built Orion the upper hand due to superior durability. Otherwise they're far from equal.

It's really not more durable. Yeah, the STs have additional armor, but it's nearly impossible to miss the orions CT at short range. Otherwise the Timber can better twist and outmaneuver the orion, even at at short range. Twist rate is really low on an 75T mech with STD300/285.

Edited by Averen, 26 July 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Seriously, we all know that the pilot ultimately makes the difference when determining which of those two mechs (or any two being compared similarly) is better.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Suddenly I do not see the 3/4 Timberwolves since the Nerf, LOL.

[Rakshasa]

Which one I'd pick? The Orion. It's not as powerful, but it "feels" good and I like the Orions looks and cockpit more on top of that

Which one I'd fear? Timberwolf in 1 v.s 1 or team, natch. Faster and more maneuverable, with max weight saving tech coupled with lighter weapons and more resilient hitboxes. They don't call it the Timbergod for nothing.

"Fear" and "like" definitely aren't the same thing for me. Which is why...



...I can't wait for December

[Richard Hazen]

I want to love the Orion because I'm Marik, I have two atm just so I can elite them but they honestly suck the big one, there's little in the way of any redeeming features.

Edited by Deimos Alpha, 28 July 2015 - 04:02 AM.

[Ultimax]

Hit the Deck, on 26 July 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

And now people can see why "Clans can't change engines so our weapons should be lighter" is more often than not a weak argument in their defense.

What I see is a laughably slow Orion. 60kph? My Banshee goes faster.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 26 July 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Ultimatum X, on 26 July 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

What I see is a laughably slow Orion. 60kph? My Banshee goes faster.

Yes and that was an attempt to match the TBR-C, which I pulled straight out of metamechs.com, I posted earlier. At kissing distance the Orion probably could win because it's quirked for the loadout. Barring certain 'Mechs, I guess that's how IS can win against Clan - by bringing good quirked 'Mechs into the battlefield (CW).

[Ultimax]

Hit the Deck, on 26 July 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Yes and that was an attempt to match the TBR-C, which I pulled straight out of metamechs.com, I posted earlier. At kissing distance the Orion probably could win because it's quirked for the loadout. Barring certain 'Mechs, I guess that's how IS can win against Clan - by bringing good quirked 'Mechs into the battlefield (CW).

It can't match the Timber Wolf.


The Orion couldn't even keep up with many IS mechs pre-clan, and people are seriously struggling to figure out if it can compete against the best Clan Heavy?


This isn't a TDR-5SS 7xMPLs vs. some short ranged TBR build where we could actually have a realistic conversation - the entire premise for this thread is completely ridiculous.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 26 July 2015 - 08:05 AM.

[Averen]

Sometimes you can make a good build work, just jumped into my V variant:



But that's probably just because nobody takes the orion serious and dealing with UAC mechs is a hassle anyway. Everyone ignores you.

Edited by Averen, 26 July 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Lykaon]

Red Line Pilot, on 25 July 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

The two biggest in their weight class for each side.

Which one would you pick, what do you fear the most from the other in a 1v1 or a team game?

Theory crafts away, GO!

The Timberwolf's basic chassis and construction is pretty much an ideal example of how to engineer a heavy mech.

Armor? best available and in abundance!
Structure? half weight for 7 crits.
Engine? providing exceptional speed for a 75 ton mech.
Double heatsinks? check!

The Orion can't even fit a 375XL (caps at a 360) So has one fewer internal engine heatsink and also requires 2 additional crits for the engine and 14 additional crits for it's armor/chassis if it were to equip Endo/Ferro leaving the orion with 29.6 tons remaining and 12 crits slots for equipment.

The Timber will have 27.46 tons and 31 free crit slots. Now keep in mind more compact and lighter clantech weapons more than compensate the timber for having 2 fewer tons of weapon payload.

Essentially what it comes down to is IF clan mechs were fully customizable I would more than likely use a 375XL engine, double heatsinks endo steel and ferro fibrious on a 75 ton chassis.

Building a 75 mech is solve for X and X=Timberwolf.

[MechaBattler]

Hit the Deck, on 26 July 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

And now people can see why "Clans can't change engines so our weapons should be lighter" is more often than not a weak argument in their defense.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d5524e0d6c412a4
Not quite as good in terms of firepower and ammo. But it has much higher speed and agility. Combine that with case all over and a better XL than the IS equivalent. So I'm inclined to believe that on the top tier clan mechs you're not that handicapped by the system.

[Dashen]

I'm sorry but what's the difference between 55 kph and 81 kph in a brawl or 1v1? the lagshield won't protect you unless you travel at LEAST over 110 kph and that's still slow.

While the timberwolf is lore wise more advanced than the orion(one of the oldest heavies) i don't think it can stand up to the orion IN GAME. They have the same armor however clan mechs suffer from overheating because their weapons are hotter than IS ones, plus IS have quirks, the timberwolf has only NEGATIVE quirks which unless elited they really drag it down. Given the same skill level i think the orion would come on top of it, heck it even scared me 2 times in my brawler Victor.

[WonderSparks]

Man, I do not care what the "meta" says or whatever. I love my Protector and its dual LB-X 10 build (slow like an Atlas but w/e, I did serious damage to a Stormcrow during a Zell duel) and my K with its four Medium Lasers and max-rated STD engine.

Sure, it may not be the best 'Mech to work with, but the Orion has its good points if you can look beyond its glaring flaws (tbh I have always wished its huge left shoulder would go away when not carrying missiles, but oh well).

[Averen]

Maybe i'm missing something due to the language barrier, but isn't Hit the Deck saying that not being able to switch engines is not an issue?
The Orion makes it kinda obvious in how it doesn't have much more firepower than a timber (those SRMs are even pretty hot), while being as slow as an assault.

Dashen, on 26 July 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

I'm sorry but what's the difference between 55 kph and 81 kph in a brawl or 1v1? the lagshield won't protect you unless you travel at LEAST over 110 kph and that's still slow.

While the timberwolf is lore wise more advanced than the orion(one of the oldest heavies) i don't think it can stand up to the orion IN GAME. They have the same armor however clan mechs suffer from overheating because their weapons are hotter than IS ones, plus IS have quirks, the timberwolf has only NEGATIVE quirks which unless elited they really drag it down. Given the same skill level i think the orion would come on top of it, heck it even scared me 2 times in my brawler Victor.

Sorry for the frank laguage, but that's complete nonsense. In close combat a big engines makes it easier to outmaneuver enemies or to utilize cover, only a bad players stay still in a fight, no matter the distance. More importantly, the Timber has a lot more torsotwist due to the huge engine, even with minimal negative quirks.

Clan mechs also do not actually suffer more from overheating than IS mechs. That's only because their laser-alphas are insane. Shouldn't come as a surprise if a 28pt alpha (2LL+2ML, 12 tons) does cause less heat than a 42pt alpha (6erml, 6 tons). Quirks are nice, but they don't change much if a laser does 40% more damage and the mech can carry 50% more heatsinks. An Orion gets 28% of heat by firing a 24 SRM alpha.

An Orion will be always worse than a timber. The CT is incredible vulnerable, the arm based SRM have terrible convergence and you'd be happy if a third of the rockets hit the enemy CT. An AC20/SRM variant might be able to outlast the Timber in terms of heat, but at that point it might not even matter anymore since one of the mechs might be dead as well after 3 alphas.

Edited by Averen, 26 July 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Dashen]

if you say so

[Phlinger]

WonderSparks, on 26 July 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Man, I do not care what the "meta" says or whatever. I love my Protector and its dual LB-X 10 build (slow like an Atlas but w/e, I did serious damage to a Stormcrow during a Zell duel) and my K with its four Medium Lasers and max-rated STD engine.

Sure, it may not be the best 'Mech to work with, but the Orion has its good points if you can look beyond its glaring flaws (tbh I have always wished its huge left shoulder would go away when not carrying missiles, but oh well).

See, I'm with you on this one man, what ever happened to the players that defied the meta and just played what they thought would be fun? I'm not Jade Falcon because it's the cool thing. I don't pilot Clan mechs because they are leet. I play Jade falcon and pilot a Summoner because ever since the initial 3050 Source Book was released, It's what i wanted to use. Every time I load into a game, it's a bit of teenager nostalgia coming to say hello. I posted back when all there was of MWO were just forums, I wanted a Jade Falcon Summoner, and damn straight, I have it now. To everyone else, the Summoner blows and even I keep pushing for them to make it a bit better, but that doesn't make it a crap mech like many claim it to be.

You meta Try-hards really ruin a game for those that just want to have fun.

The Orion is a good mech, who cares if another one is better on a spread sheet. Follow the herd boys, follow the herd.

[Dashen]

Ronyn, on 26 July 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

See, I'm with you on this one man, what ever happened to the players that defied the meta and just played what they thought would be fun? I'm not Jade Falcon because it's the cool thing. I don't pilot Clan mechs because they are leet. I play Jade falcon and pilot a Summoner because ever since the initial 3050 Source Book was released, It's what i wanted to use. Every time I load into a game, it's a bit of teenager nostalgia coming to say hello. I posted back when all there was of MWO were just forums, I wanted a Jade Falcon Summoner, and damn straight, I have it now. To everyone else, the Summoner blows and even I keep pushing for them to make it a bit better, but that doesn't make it a crap mech like many claim it to be.

You meta Try-hards really ruin a game for those that just want to have fun.

The Orion is a good mech, who cares if another one is better on a spread sheet. Follow the herd boys, follow the herd.

I'm also with you.
All my mechs follow the purpose for which they have been created, i'm not metaplayer and i leave that to youngstes

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Dashen, on 26 July 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

I'm sorry but what's the difference between 55 kph and 81 kph in a brawl or 1v1? the lagshield won't protect you unless you travel at LEAST over 110 kph and that's still slow.

While the timberwolf is lore wise more advanced than the orion(one of the oldest heavies) i don't think it can stand up to the orion IN GAME. They have the same armor however clan mechs suffer from overheating because their weapons are hotter than IS ones, plus IS have quirks, the timberwolf has only NEGATIVE quirks which unless elited they really drag it down. Given the same skill level i think the orion would come on top of it, heck it even scared me 2 times in my brawler Victor.

The difference is that the 81kph mech has the freedom to dictate the engagement range. If your 55kph mech is fit to brawl, then sorry but you lose.

Orion just isn't that great. Short range firepower in most cases coupled with low weapon mounts, slow speed, and 75t armor values. Even if it makes its way into range, it's relying upon the enemy making mistakes, or the allied team shouldering the burden of carrying.

[BigFatGator]

While the Orion isn't as hopeless as some make it out to be, and there are some solid builds that can perform at average for a Heavy mech, piloting one is a choice of 'hey this is a cool robot' vs. 'this is what I will do my best in for the match'.

Timberwolf is better in every way with the current implementations, even with quirkage. That said i think Orions are fun... not optimal but fun if you pilot them with knowedge of limitations.