121 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

ScarecrowES, on 26 July 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

UAC10 + 2ERML + ECM works fine. It's one of the builds I think actually works well for the mech, in addition to the SRM + ERML builds.

Still, both are done better on other mechs.

That's right... 2xERML. I almost forgot I run those instead of ERSL on that build. I probably should give it another try. It runs better than SRMs for me at least.

[InspectorG]

ScarecrowES, on 26 July 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

You can't poke with a mech that can't pack a high alpha and the SCat certainly can't do that - it's the only thing accel/decel bonuses are good for.

Cant poke???

This is just some of many Pugs(wouldnt bring this to Group) and ive been running a 2ERML,1ERSL Cheeter with similar results.

[Mystere]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

Both the scat and cheetah are pretty OP, they are fast and small but can still dish out some pain, but even more strange seems that they can take much more damage then they should be able to... I've been in combat against them many times and they are always very tough to take down, how much armour do they have??

Please don't make me laugh.

[ScarecrowES]

InspectorG, on 26 July 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Cant poke???

This is just some of many Pugs(wouldnt bring this to Group) and ive been running a 2ERML,1ERSL Cheeter with similar results.

So what you're saying is, A Spider with less than a 3rd of the size of a SCat and more more than 50% higher mobility can produce middle-of-the-road results in a match? I'm super confused here.

[Scout Derek]

CrushLibs, on 26 July 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

If 6 locked JJs , dirt poor Masc (10 kph) , high heat , mediocre armor and weapon slots isn't bad enough now the ECM is being nerfed soon (180m to 90m).

Can we get a Scat that has some balls

1. ditch or increase MASC ,, rather have a XL 280 in it than Masc or increase Masc to 20% so it can atleast go 130 kph for 7 secs.

2. on all clan mechs allow users to remove JJs this is a stupid fixed hardpoint like the flamer on the puma. Its bad enough no engine or armor changes are allowed.

3. Scat needs a small buff to the HUGE side torsos that PGI decided to use.

Having high mounted weapons is nice and all but not a game changer,, to have one of the most renown clan mechs reduced to a long range sniper mech with no ammo is very very sad indeed.

Please for the love of Pete fix this mech to at least be competitive/playable. Hell my Puma does a better job and that's just wrong.

Crush, going to disagree as I've been getting some good games out of them, just because ecm is changing doesn't mean it'll turn into insta crap, in fact in may make it better....

[InspectorG]

ScarecrowES, on 26 July 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

So what you're saying is, A Spider with less than a 3rd of the size of a SCat and more more than 50% higher mobility can produce middle-of-the-road results in a match? I'm super confused here.

Im saying if you know what you are doing you can make it work.

AKA: Skill.

People complain about power creep but then complain when their new shiny doesnt have more power than the old shiny.

MASC is brand new and PGI will likely alter it in the future. They said a whole rebalance is in the works.

Your complaints about the SCat arent anything that hasnt been said about other mechs like the Summoner. PGI wont 'fix' it anytime soon.

Maybe try these builds and a similar play style?

[Tarogato]

Buff MASC. It currently gives 10.7kph for two tons. If you simply upped the engine rating by two tons, it would run 11.9kph faster. Upping the engine is more efficient than installing MASC? Then why even have MASC? The acceleration bonuses have a "meh" impact, it needs more of a top speed "oomph." It supposed to run 130kph ... both it and the Executioner run slower than their lore counterparts, and that's a first in MWO.

[Scout Derek]

Tarogato, on 26 July 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Buff MASC. It currently gives 10.7kph for two tons. If you simply upped the engine rating by two tons, it would run 11.9kph faster. Upping the engine is more efficient than installing MASC? Then why even have MASC? The acceleration bonuses have a "meh" impact, it needs more of a top speed "oomph." It supposed to run 130kph ... both it and the Executioner run slower than their lore counterparts, and that's a first in MWO.

If we do that, I think this would be appropriate for buff in accel boost:

Lights : 3.85% increase

Medium: 3.2% increase

Heavy: 2.75% increase

Assault: 2.235% increase

I'd think if they were buffed like this we'd see an increase in MASC speed for the Shadow Cat, and the Executioner would gain a small increase, not much but enough to let it keep pace with some of the heavies.

[ScarecrowES]

InspectorG, on 26 July 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Im saying if you know what you are doing you can make it work.

AKA: Skill.

People complain about power creep but then complain when their new shiny doesnt have more power than the old shiny.

MASC is brand new and PGI will likely alter it in the future. They said a whole rebalance is in the works.

Your complaints about the SCat arent anything that hasnt been said about other mechs like the Summoner. PGI wont 'fix' it anytime soon.

Maybe try these builds and a similar play style?

First, if MASC was made to work at the same levels for all mechs, it might alleviate some problems. If you were able to take a mech at one class, and in bursts give it the speed and mobility of mechs in the next class down (as shown in the Executioner), this introduces a bit of viability to the SCat as a hit-and-run striker. It might be just that simple.

Otherwise, it simply needs more energy hardpoints to make use of the cramped pod space. The SCat should work like a compromise between a Cicada and more traditional heavier mediums. It really could use an omnipod configuration that adds 2 extra energy (one per arm would work nice), or a left torso that adds 3 to make the choice of ECM difficult. That puts the mech more or less where it needs to be.

In terms of the 3 builds you identified, all of them can be done vastly better on other chassis. The SCat is going to need some serious quirking to make those ones comparatively viable. I run the UAC10 + 2ERML build myself, and it does well in spite of the mech it's on, not because of it. And the LL build is... erm. You're better off mounting 2 ERLL on a cheetah and being done with it. It's sad, but at 15 tons less, the AC does that build better, as does the Raven-3L, etc.

[CrushLibs]

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Change out those 6's to some streak 4's, drop a ton of ammo, use 2 more heat sinks. Your 3 mpl vs the cicadas 4 mpl, I think you only do 2 less damage, but have better range. It's not that different.

I guess you never tested how crappy streaks are in this game. They slow to reload and spread damage.

Scat has some small good points but no great points. Yes masc = instant acceleration but is 1/2sec to top speed great NO , also if you run into a real streak boat like a Maddog with 6 streak-6s you will need that extra ECM range which is going bye bye.

If PGI limits the teammates bubble to 90m but leaves the mech with a 180m that would be acceptable but that's not going to happen.

Pay $120 for a good mech the EBJ but the SCAT just don't cut it. Clans really need to custom choices and be able to switch out ES and FF and unlock JJs to help even out all the quirks IS gets but that's not happening anytime soo either.

Enjoy your 70m jumping hotboxes and good luck to everyone

[Scout Derek]

InspectorG, on 26 July 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Im saying if you know what you are doing you can make it work.

AKA: Skill.

People complain about power creep but then complain when their new shiny doesnt have more power than the old shiny.

MASC is brand new and PGI will likely alter it in the future. They said a whole rebalance is in the works.

Your complaints about the SCat arent anything that hasnt been said about other mechs like the Summoner. PGI wont 'fix' it anytime soon.

Maybe try these builds and a similar play style?

I've myself have done well in it, since I'm on a tablet that can't insert pictures, take a look at this forum:
http://mwomercs.com/...-when-using-it/

Look for my screenshots.



If you've seen them, that was when it was basic.

I've been running a new build on it I call the Shadow "Splat" Cat. 3x SRM 6+Artemis, 4.5 tons of ammo, a DHS, and ecm.

Treat it like a lightly damaged wolverine, and you can work on assaults even.

One problem I've seen with this mech and the EJ, is that their arms are a bit wide, it's not a bad thing, but at times when you gotta aim you miss the shots or the arms get shot off too quickly.

Regardless, poptarting with them is so much fun, especially when you get speed, and jump by a mech on a ledge, shove srms into that CT, and run away laughing while they take a moment to realize what just happened.

[Sarlic]

Greenjulius, on 26 July 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

Have your run the Scat?

Just to break the "IS Player vs Clan Player" stalemate... I find this mech to be utter trash. I love the other 3 mechs in Wave 3, but have had nothing but dissapointing experiences with the Scat.

Slow, undergunned, made of glass and hampered by a terrible implementation of MASC. Only solution to making it a competent mech is hard point inflation or fixing MASC to not just be 2 wasted tons.

I find it hard to believe anyone who has actually taken this mech out would think it COULD EVER be better than the Cheetah. The Cheetah dominates this mech in all categories.

Among 45 tonners, it is a distant 2nd after Blackjacks. The BJ-1X makes the Shadowcat its *****. I know this, because I dominate in it.

Why so i see other 'tons' of people doing pretty fine with it?

Because they know how to use the mech. They effectively use the terrain to their advantage. Why people go try to go on speed is beyond me. Go jump with it, heck, go poptart with if you want. Stay with the pack, either on the flanks or mid way. You don't want to walk on the frontlines with this thing. Stay either with Assaults or other heavies.

Low profile, speed, high mount, can pack ECM, good punch of firepower, great agility for it's tonnage and ofcourse MASC.

What else you need?

The mech is out for a short time and yet some people complain about how 'terribad' the mech is. I couldn't utilise my Atlas effective from day 1. It took years to be good at it.

Some folks are fast learners and they know-how to or have great experience to utilise the mech on full.

Stop complaining, man up and learn from it. That would be my advice.

Edited by Sarlic, 26 July 2015 - 02:35 PM.

[Trainee]

InspectorG:

AKA: Any skillful player can make a mech work. Those videos show a great player, with a mediocre mech, sniping with light mech loadouts.

I'm disappointed with this mech, because I purchased the pack specifically for it. Luckily the Arctic Cheetah, and Cauldron Born are really fun to play. Give me a Gauss, 30 rounds of ammo, and 2 erml's (preferably on one side), and I'll be happy with it. You can keep the masc, it's not really that useful to me.

Sorry to watch that player(s) T/K you Phil.

[Scout Derek]

ScarecrowES, on 26 July 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Otherwise, it simply needs more energy hardpoints to make use of the cramped pod space. The SCat should work like a compromise between a Cicada and more traditional heavier mediums. It really could use an omnipod configuration that adds 2 extra energy (one per arm would work nice), or a left torso that adds 3 to make the choice of ECM difficult. That puts the mech more or less where it needs to be.

Yeah, I can agree with this. Not too many hardpoints to use. Remember the ice ferret before reinfoscements? It didn't have enough energy hardpoints to actually use, when that ct energy variant came out, it became that much better.

Aside from that I dunno if we'll ever see another variant for it, unless PGI invents another variant, which would probably be dubbed SHC - 2P variant. (P stands for PGI, you know?)

[bad arcade kitty]

Trainee, on 26 July 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

I'm disappointed with this mech, because I purchased the pack specifically for it. Luckily the Arctic Cheetah, and Cauldron Born are really fun to play. Give me a Gauss, 30 rounds of ammo, and 2 erml's (preferably on one side), and I'll be happy with it. You can keep the masc, it's not really that useful to me.

get your shc with gauss, 30 rounds of ammo and 2 erml on one side, be happy (you promised)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9c04c8b9c9868b3

[CtrlAltWheee]

bad arcade kitty, on 26 July 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

it seems op knows barely anything about ecm
that bubble range nerf almost doesn't affect the personal usage of ecm for snipers like shc, and for close range brawlers like ach it may even be a buff of the personal usage (it makes them easier to sneak on the target); well it makes them harder to shut down bap i.e. to swarm a streakboat but we are not supposed to have 6+ ecm mechs per team, either bap needs a serious buff or ecm needs a bubble nerf

I'd be okay if bap cancels all ecm in its range. Or at least all gecm (crossing fingers for the Paul ecm overhaul).

[Trainee]

bad arcade kitty, on 26 July 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

get your shc with gauss, 30 rounds of ammo and 2 erml on one side, be happy (you promised)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9c04c8b9c9868b3

Perfect, just need to dump 2 tons and I'll have the mech I want. ECM and full armor. Wonder where I can get those 2 tons from...

[Moldur]

At the very least, I feel MASC was not heavily considered by the devs before implementation. It's like they just put random, tiny numbers in so that it wouldn't be OP. I think they (hopefully, in the given circumstance) fully expected that they would be tweaking it in the future after initial release. The fact that a higher engine rating would flat be better for the same weight as MASC is a pretty glaring "wtf" issue.

[bad arcade kitty]

Trainee, on 26 July 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

Perfect, just need to dump 2 tons and I'll have the mech I want. ECM and full armor. Wonder where I can get those 2 tons from...

you didn't ask for ecm and the full armor ><

[Greenjulius]

Sarlic, on 26 July 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

Stop complaining, man up and learn from it. That would be my advice.

Sarlic, I've played against you a few times and have great respect for your abilities and views. However, please accept that other people have opinions that matter too.

I shouldn't have quoted you directly, however I did this just to quote a, "SCat is just fine" post. My point still stands and is quite relevant. MASC on the SCat is not worth the 2 tons. The Accel/Decel boost is nice, but not worth 2 tons, especially when 2 tons more engine would make a massive difference. The Turn Rate bonus makes almost no discernible difference.

I'm not arguing past what is reasonable. MASC MK II only provides a 10% boost to speed for 7 seconds. MASC MK I provides the EXACT SAME BONUS for 1 ton. The other MASC variants? They provide 15.5% for 3 tons, and 18.5% for 4 tons respectively. None of these are TT correct. However, I care nothing for translating TT to a videogame, so that point is irrelevant. What I want is scaling that makes sense.

My solution to the SCats issues? (only one needed, then we can judge its impact)

1.) Make the boost for MASC a minimum of 13%. That would put it in line with all the other variants. As it is, 30-50 tonners are penalized with the worst MASC. That would translate to about 14kph, which would make the mech go about 121. Reasonable, I thing you would agree?

2.) Hardpoint inflation - The SCat is relegated to long range sniping because it can't do anything else well except jumping. A Raven 3L does this better because it's a smaller, faster mech. If it had an extra energy hardpoint, a 4xMPL build would actually make it worthwhile. I would even accept this replacing the ECM hardpoint.

Your last sentence is making things personal however; questioning my masculinity. What is the measure of a man? Giving up? I say to you, a real man sticks to his guns and fights for his opinions as long as they are justified. My opinion, good sir, is a just one and I will fight for it.