221 replies to this topic

[GeistHrafn]

ScarecrowES, on 28 July 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Ultimately, the language for non-participation in clear, and treason is vague.

It's not unclear at all. The first sentence says it all:

Quote

Treasonous provision of information to enemy combatants, also known as "bird-dogging" is forbidden.

Please be aware, an updated CoC is currently being worked on, which hopefully will dispel many of the misconceptions people seem to have. I do not have an ETA on it yet, however.

Furthermore, for clarification, powering down and hiding IS considered non-participation (i.e. at the end of a match, for example to preserve K/D ratio), regardless of what you may have seen before. Again, if you think this is the case, report the player.

However, in the context of the OP, he WAS participating. If you are in a game, still participating, and someone gives the enemy team your location, please report them.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 July 2015 - 02:02 PM.

[GeistHrafn]

Mystere, on 28 July 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

What I was referring to was the statement by (former moderator) Egomane:

"If you fight to the best of your abilities and hide when there is no way for you to win anymore, that is perfectly fine."

As far as I know, no other clarification has been provided since then other than that. But, I do know that someone from PGI did say several weeks(?) ago that further clarification will be provided. Unfortunately I can't remember the name and I also can't find the post.

See above. Just clarified that! That in fact IS considered non-participation. Apologies for the confusion.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 July 2015 - 02:05 PM.

[Throat Punch]

Prosperity Park, on 28 July 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

The freeways all throughout the Portland Metro Area are rated at 55mph. Do you know how many people drive 55 on the interstate? None, we drive at proper freeway speeds.

Well then what you are saying is you all drive 55mph because that is the legal proper freeway speed. Not 65. Not 70. 55 miles per hour is the posted proper speed.

[Shad0wsFury]

I see a lot of the word "selfish" getting thrown about by various parties in this thread.

Consider please: What does it accomplish when the score is 11 to 2, and the last person on the losing side goes and hides in a corner, shut down or no?

Please add more if I miss something, but it accomplishes:

- Prevents that last person from dying (maybe).
- Causes the remainder of the winning team to waste time looking for a hiding mech.
- Causes any remaining spectators on the losing team who are trying to level a specific chassis to waste time.
- Prevents the winning team from getting a kill.

Now who benefits from those things? Either nobody (in the case of wasted time and a lost kill) or the last, sole, hiding player. What does that one last player have to gain out of hiding? ONLY THE PREVENTION OF ONE MORE DEATH ON THEIR STATS. They're already probably going to lose, so they certainly have nothing to gain by trying to stay alive.

So yea, which is more selfish:

Going out fighting, trying to maybe get a kill for yourself and maybe some assists for your dead teammates. OR. . . Hiding to the best of your ability until the match ends so you don't have another death on your stat sheet.

Which one benefits more people?

Now who is the one acting selfishly?

[Mister Blastman]

Sometimes the PUGs need to hear how bad they are after they cowered behind a rock and hide in fear the whole game.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 28 July 2015 - 02:55 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Rhazien, on 28 July 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Furthermore, for clarification, powering down and hiding IS considered non-participation (i.e. at the end of a match, for example to preserve K/D ratio), regardless of what you may have seen before. Again, if you think this is the case, report the player.

powering down in conquest sometimes is the best way to participate, lol

anyway it's all out of question, you can report non participating people to pgi but they should do anything with those who disclose their positions too because it's a separate rule violation and should be persecuted too

turning off all chat for dead is the easiest solution to stop team treasons, and those treasons are the most ugly thing in this game, worse than hacking

giving the last player on the team a free way out without death if they are not spotted for n time or if they go out of bounds is an easy solution for non participation btw, but it's a separate matter

if they don't do anything actually important instead of their 'clarification' everybody still will violate the rules because honestly it's almost impossible to be punished for that, they are reported and what... pgi simply ignores those reports

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 28 July 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Mister Blastman, on 28 July 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Sometimes the PUGs need to hear how bad they are after they cowered behind a rock and hid in fear the whole game.

Can be frustrating sometimes but you can be useful, call which mech is cored and possibly where it could be. Talking deads certainly helps the newbies get into the game and learn more so lets have more help and less qq.

[VinJade]

I remember playing and was the only one left, I was trying to find a good place to set up my last stand to finish off my last 5-10 rounds of Missiles and or snipe with my ER Large Laser.

I had people go:
"Hurry up and die"
"Noob just die"
"just run at them and die quickly!"

I cannot remember who it was but they did give away my location just to finish the game,

its crap like that which annoys me, however I don't mind dead mech chats as that is normally when I can get questions answered or kill some time with those watching the match.

[Top Leliel]

The only time people should be giving away position is if the sole remaining teammate is afk/disconnected, or if the last person is powered off in a corner doing nothing and delaying the game(such as in Skirmish, when the last player left can hide, not attempt to fight the enemy, and run out the clock just to spite everyone on both teams)

Anything else is assisting the opposing team and essentially nullifying any chance of a comeback. Should be a bannable offense imo.

Edited by Top Leliel, 28 July 2015 - 02:20 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

DAYLEET, on 28 July 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

Can be frustrating sometimes but you can be useful, call which mech is cored and possibly where it could be. Talking deads certainly helps the newbies get into the game and learn more so lets have more help and less qq.

i don't propose to forbid them the team chat though, only the all chat i.e. the chat with enemies and only till the end of the game so they can say their gg

Top Leliel, on 28 July 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

The only time people should be giving away position is if the sole remaining teammate is afk/disconnected, or if the last person is powered off in a corner doing nothing and delaying the game(such as in Skirmish, when the last player left can hide, not attempt to fight the enemy, and run out the clock just to spite everyone on both teams)

Anything else is assisting the opposing team and essentially nullifying any chance of a comeback. Should be a bannable offense imo.

there is no 'only time'
you should disclose your teammate's position never
even if they are dced, it's in the rules
dcers can rc too

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 28 July 2015 - 02:32 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Shad0wsFury, on 28 July 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

Sorry you don't like it. I happen to find the opposite selfish: Wasting 23 people's time to me seems more selfish than giving away the position of a player who, IMO, selfishly refuses to die to pad their own stats.

Hang on here. Whether he can win or not isn’t the case here.

Everyone in the game has had their equal chance to play. In the middle of the match, do you just give up and leave because you don’t have your full armament, or that you got legged? No. So why should he cut his play time short because you all died early and are impatient?

Simply put: Just because he happens to be the last one alive doesn’t make him selfish. He’s in the game just the same as you were when you mech was damaged. Middle of the match or at the end, doesn’t make a difference. So stop being impatient and expect a 15 minute game when you drop. It’s pretty simple.

[Kiiyor]

Shad0wsFury, on 28 July 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Are you going to defeat 10 mechs with 246 streak SRM missiles and two working launchers, with heavy damage to your armor and internals?

If not then you should go die honorably (and quickly), or run yourself out of bounds if you must.

This.... annoys me. If you're the last remaining mech, and have no weapons at all, I think you should absolutely die gloriously/go OOB/give your own co-ords away. I despise it when players shut down, because it serves no other purpose than to waste everyone's time.

If, however, you have some fight left in you, you should absolutely fight. Maybe you'll get a kill or two. Maybe you'll have a moment of inspiration and learn something new about your loadout and mech. Maybe you'll get a little better at rolling damage to protect yourself. Maybe you're a new player - and there is no better way to test your mettle and to learn than by trying to outfight several enemy mechs, because you have to think, rather than follow a Dire, begging for scraps from their table. Or, maybe you'll actually win - i've seen and dished out numerous kills from heavily damaged mechs to turn a humiliating defeat into a victory.

I was once in my Gauss Yager, cherry internals and an XL engine, one gauss rifle gone, facing 4 enemy mechs, with 8 gauss rounds left, and we WON. That's the sort of thing a grizzled digital vet would tell to their imaginary digital grandkids. It's one of my favourite MWO moments, but it was at least partially sullied by the vile crap going on in chat. There's no way I would try and take away any potential moment like that from another player.

While I hate waiting for a new match after dying, it's still a team game, and you need to wait for your team to finish. If players are so obsessed with having their time wasted, they should quit the bloody match.

[Chuck Jager]

I was the last guy with a crap build getting yelled at 7-8 months ago. Now I am the person who is one of the first 3-5 to die and gets one of the higher scores (in pugs), but I am now speechless when I see somebody at 800m chain firing mlas at less than 20% heat. The same words that were yelled at me, I am typing away at others.

If we remove the obliviously spoiled selfish folks from the equation (can't fix stupid), I think part of the problem is MM having to draw a wide range of players to balance each other. If the folks are closer to each other they have a higher chance of playing in a similar manner. When a newer player is teamed with a higher level player they have less of a chance of helping the other with similar playstyles and builds. I do not think this is fair to either person.

That being said if you are over 85% armor and one of the last players on my loosing team in a stock firestarter with a std engine, I have zero reason to be nice as long as I can skate the edge of the TOS.

[ScarecrowES]

Rhazien, on 28 July 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

It's not unclear at all. The first sentence says it all:


[color=#959595]Treasonous [/color]provision of information to enemy combatants[color=#959595], also known as "bird-dogging" is [/color]forbidden[color=#959595].[/color]

The quote, as you've just shown, is vague. Calling out a teammate when it has no effect on the game cannot, thus, be treasonous by definition, as it produces no negative effect for any of the 12 players on your team. In fact, for the 11 players on your team who have already accepted the loss, and the 12 winning players being prevented from moving on with their win... or to be said another way, for the other 23 players in the match... the BENEFIT of such actions is immeasureable to all. Like the quote says... TREASONOUS provision of info is forbidden. Nothing states that providing information in general, or information that is beneficial to the general poplation of the match, including your own team, is forbidden.

[bad arcade kitty]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 28 July 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

I was the last guy with a crap build getting yelled at 7-8 months ago. Now I am the person who is one of the first 3-5 to die and gets one of the higher scores (in pugs), but I am now speechless when I see somebody at 800m chain firing mlas at less than 20% heat. The same words that were yelled at me, I am typing away at others.

If we remove the obliviously spoiled selfish folks from the equation (can't fix stupid), I think part of the problem is MM having to draw a wide range of players to balance each other. If the folks are closer to each other they have a higher chance of playing in a similar manner. When a newer player is teamed with a higher level player they have less of a chance of helping the other with similar playstyles and builds. I do not think this is fair to either person.

That being said if you are over 85% armor and one of the last players on my loosing team in a stock firestarter with a std engine, I have zero reason to be nice as long as I can skate the edge of the TOS.

bzzz, i was one of the best players that drop... btw one of those two kills was my 'kill most damage dealt' stolen at the last second

and if you think my build is crap... i hope to meet you in the game

[Johny Rocket]

Anyone who, for any reason, reports a teammates position to the enemy should be found and beat within an inch of their miserable life.
Don't want to wait hit ESC and choose option 3

Edit: I meant in game. Am not advocating tracking down players in real world.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 28 July 2015 - 04:28 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

bad arcade kitty, on 28 July 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

bzzz, i was one of the best players that drop... btw one of those two kills was my 'kill most damage dealt' stolen at the last second

and if you think my build is crap... i hope to meet you in the game

Not BAD so much as incredibly... incredibly... cheap.

[Ted Wayz]

Most players do not report the position of players still playing the game. I have been the last player countless times and have never had my position reported. Why? Because I am still actively playing the game.

Sorry but the people who usually get their positions reported are just trying to waste the time of other players. And frankly if the MWO society thinks this is wrong, and given by the amount of butthurt posts about the the subject I think they do, then it is the time wasters that need to conform and not be indulged.

[bad arcade kitty]

Ted Wayz, on 28 July 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

Most players do not report the position of players still playing the game. I have been the last player countless times and have never had my position reported. Why? Because I am still actively playing the game.

Sorry but the people who usually get their positions reported are just trying to waste the time of other players. And frankly if the MWO society thinks this is wrong, and given by the amount of butthurt posts about the the subject I think they do, then it is the time wasters that need to conform and not be indulged.

dc and play another mech

iirc that jerk who disclosed my position was in a cheetah i.e. he had 2+ other cheetahs ready to play not counting other mechs but he preferred to be a jerk

also i saw a few traitors who wanted to save literally 20-30 seconds or so in conquest (the remaining ones weren't not me btw), don't tell me that bs about saving time, they just want that others on their team die asap too just like they did so they could feel themselves better

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 28 July 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[Mystere]

Rhazien, on 28 July 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

See above. Just clarified that! That in fact IS considered non-participation. Apologies for the confusion.

Rhazien, on 28 July 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Furthermore, for clarification, powering down and hiding IS considered non-participation (i.e. at the end of a match, for example to preserve K/D ratio), regardless of what you may have seen before. Again, if you think this is the case, report the player.

My problem, and I am sure many others feel the same, is that variations of your and Egomane's "clarifications" have been playing musical chairs all this time. That is the source of much of the confusion. There is also just no way to distinguish between someone:

• preserving K/D
  
• forcing the enemy to earn the kill

Rhazien, on 28 July 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Please be aware, an updated CoC is currently being worked on, which hopefully will dispel many of the misconceptions people seem to have. I do not have an ETA on it yet, however.

The sooner this is done the better. And it better clarify all the cases that have been the subject of dozens of threads and thousands of posts.

In the mean time, I'm going to continue to force the issue in-game whenever the opportunity arises.

Sacrifice, someone has to do it.

Edited by Mystere, 28 July 2015 - 05:24 PM.