181 replies to this topic

[Logan Frost]

Nerdboard, on 01 August 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

The problem you experience is, as some people have kindof pointed out already, that the MWO playerbase is not huge. This means that on off-hours you can get really imbalanced setups simply because hardly anyone is playing.

Due to this also any kind of very specific match making system like you propose will result in insanely long waiting times. It's therefore simply not feasible.

Also you've played only a couple of matches so far. Calling a game unbalanced after some 30 matches is a really premature judgement. So far you could just have had bad luck. To me it seems like you do not like the meta game (i.e. weapon boats, peeking, high alpha strikes). Personally, I dont either. I run a few mechs on meta builds and some really different. The one thing I can tell you is that with getting more experience in the game it gets better. You can kill 'meta-mechs' with Battletech canon setups or your own fun builds. It's more difficult than with meta builds, but it is definitely possible and provides a fun challenge. If you however feel like the pure fact that people will be able to do 60dmg pinpoint alphas on you annoys you too much, I'd honestly suggest you to look for a different game.

If that is not the case, just remember its a game and maybe look for a unit to make the whole thing a lot easier.

Already done. Guess its back to Megamek until someone with more sense gets ahold of the IP. Honestly, its not even that I absolutely hate playing, it really is that I feel like launching into a match means I keep a skilled player from playing for the team. I feel like me being there is a complete hindrance to the team. A game should not make its new players react in such a way.

Edited by Logan Frost, 01 August 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Logan Frost, on 01 August 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

Already done. Guess its back to Megamek until someone with more sense gets ahold of the IP. Honestly, its not even that I absolutely hate playing, it really is that I feel like launching into a match means I keep a skilled player from playing for the team. I feel like me being there is a complete hindrance to the team. A game should not make its new players react in such a way.

The other team gets a newbie to balance you out.

Also, you should look into playing one of the stock mech monday events. Game's a lot different with stock mechs.

[JC Daxion]

Nayonac, on 31 July 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

Get a Stormcrow... that's about all you need to know really, stand back and watch the innersphere crumble before you!
Pound for pound the best hunk of metal of the battlefield.

Although i must say i have way more fun in a Centurion but fun vs winning

Centurions Rock.. I love mediums, and play HBK's and wolverines.. But the AH, is probably one of the best brawlers in the game... I have Destroyed so many Stromcrows in that thing it's not even a fair fight.. If you get close to any mech, unless you are up against a sick brawler, your target is going down, and going down hard.. the others are pretty darn good too, you just need to be good at using multiple weapon systems.. PS, the AH i the mech i earned "ace of spades" The only other mech i did that with is the TDR-5SS, and that is considered one of the best mechs in the game. So i'd say centurions are in pretty good company.

[JC Daxion]

Logan Frost, on 01 August 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

Already done. Guess its back to Megamek until someone with more sense gets ahold of the IP. Honestly, its not even that I absolutely hate playing, it really is that I feel like launching into a match means I keep a skilled player from playing for the team. I feel like me being there is a complete hindrance to the team. A game should not make its new players react in such a way.

(sorry for the book, But i had a lot to say.. I hope you take the time to read it.. Maybe it will help)

I guess i looked at things totally different when i started... I played my first 137 matches in a trial Dragon.. this was back before they got quirks, and it sported an XL engine, with 2 Large lasers, and a gauss. I have never in my life played pvp shooter before this,. Though i have played a ton of mech 3 and 4, but haven't for years. I also only played it in PVE.

I was one of the first people to die just about every match.. My KDR was an abysmal .43 My average damage per match was a pitiful 131, and in all those games i had only 37 kills.. So to say i sucked the big one, was actually being kind. Part of this was my computer, as my FPS was pretty low.. at times bellow 15, and trying to kill a light was a lost cause..

But ya know what, I had a blast and was hooked... and honestly the best part of me dying first or second, i actually got to watch people that knew how to play, and i learned a ton from watching them. If you are coming into this game, expecting to win, or be good, it just isn't going to happen. It takes tons of time to just learn the maps.

By the time i played 1600 matches, my KDR was .79, and my average damage was up to a whopping 200.. though now, i was actually helping the team some matches, and i could even pull 3-4 kills in a good one. But i still died early more often than not, but at least i was starting to understand how to play, and how to protect my weapon systems, and using twisting to keep myself alive. I had gone from being basically one of the worst players on my team to a middle of the road player.. In a match that i did 400 damage i was doing well.. Lights now were still the ban of my existance, but i could kill um, (partly because i started playing light hunting mechs, like my HBK 4SP, back when a pair of streaks were pretty powerful. But then the 12 man drops came, and my computer could not handle it, so i had to quit till i upgraded my comp about 4 months later.

All this time, i had been playing hunchbacks, and i bought a couple catapults, and an atlas, but didn't really play um.. But i was rocking the hunchbacks and doing well some games. Heck i even had a top 3 score once or twice!


so fast forward to when i returned with my new computer that could handle the game.. I decided to get into cataphracts at this point, and that is when i really started to get my grove going. The new computer had good frames, so lights no longer blinked by my and my skills where improving and i was no longer the first to die, and in fact i started to be one of the reasons the team would pull out a win. I was improving, but i still was not what people would call good. I guess at this point i would say i was average.

Now it has been 2 years since i started playing, I have around 6k matches under my belt and now have 3-4 mechs from every weight class, with 3-4 varriants of each mech which adds up to 50 mechs. I still am playing in pugs but now i am often the top scorer in my lance, and in the top 3 of my team more often than not. At times i even pull top score from both sides. I can say now, i am a pretty good player. I just play pugs for the most part, but the few times i have played in 12 man teams i have held my own, and in events i even have gotten pretty decent scores.. (though events you really need to play a ton of matches to really place well and i typically don't play enough to really move up) But playing 40 matches when they only count 10, and placing you are doing something right.

I now also play lights, so i am one of those people i used to curse at, as i shred up a heavy as they desperately try to kill me. in fact i really love lights, especially my commandos but ravens have a soft spot in my heart going back to mech commander. My KDR is improving as well, and i have a few mechs closing in on the 2.0 mark.. I still play a lot of mechs that just don't kill well, so i often end up with tons of assists and lots of most damage done counts, and i can be the reason why a team wins now. though i still can do stupid things and end up being the first one dead and have only 60 damage.. (especially playing in a light) But in mediums and heavies, which are my best mechs, far more often than not i play well. Assaults are still my worst mechs, though i really only have played stalkers, but even those i can be the top assault on the team from time to time. My average damage in matches is up, and many mechs over 300, and scoring 600+ is not rare.. even had some matches in my lights pulling 600-800 and pulling 3-4 kills, and racking up 8+ assists.. (still have yet to get 12 assists though, that achievement is still alluding me.

the point of all this... you are just starting, and it is hard.. But if you stick with it, you will improve, hopefully it doesn't take you as long as it took me to actually get good.. But so what if it does.. You need to just have the right outlook on it. It's a game, just have fun, even if you are sucking out.. Get blasted my a dual AC-20's from a king crab and die.. Learn from that mistake, and try not to stand in front of one next time Even being good you are still gonna get cored from a guy that is great.. like those blasted people that can pin-point with dual gauss from 1k+ I still suck at sniping.. Which is why i play brawlers.. I can actually hit parts i want, and do it pretty darn well.. But over 500m.. i might as well be using a firehose i'm about that accurate at longer ranges.. I'm just happy to hit the mech lol.


.

You really need to take some time, and launch into the testing grounds, and learn them. You can shoot the stationary targets, Learn to manuver, and most importantly learn to aim and manage heat, and get to know the weapon recharge system. Spend a few nights playing in there.. Kill all the targets on the map, and then launch again.. Play every map 5-10 times at least.. the smaller maps like forest colony and frozen city are great for your slower protector.. the large ones like alpine, terra, and tourmiline, id suggest using your jenner.. caustic is easy to learn, the bog isn't tough, but either mech will work here.. just watch out for the roots

Practice aiming for Side torso's while you circle them, practicing just hitting one arm, making all shots hit that arm, or leg, or back section, or what ever.. But do it while moving, and twisting away, then back and taking that shot trying to hit the same location. Practice shooting the leg as you circle, Practice shooting them in the crotch (that will damage both legs)

You also need to figure out what mechs you are good in, and what styles.. For me, its large AC's and pulse lasers for the most part.. SRM's i am ok with, and i do decent with LRM's from time to time.. PPC's are hit or miss, No pun intended. And i have been putting off playing with my gauss mechs still. But hey i did build an atlas, and a victor to try um again.

Maybe you will be a great medium pilot, or maybe assaults are your thing.. I dunno, and at this point neither do you.. playing a few matches in a stock jenner and protector is hardly enough to even figure out a build you like, let alone become a good player.. It will take you 100-200 matches just to start to figure out the game and that is all right, as long as you try to just have fun, and laugh at the mistakes you make. It sounds like you are taking things far to seriously, and expecting to be good, because you played other pvp games. This game is unlike any pvp game around from everything anyone that plays other pvp shooters has told me.

Take it from the guy that never played a pvp game in his life before this.. (outside of my starcraft addiction of the late 90's which helped zero with playing this, other than knowing what it is like to be schooled by someone Far superior to myself) This game really is a blast once you get the hang of it, and it really is worth putting in the effort.

Outside of that, the only thing i can say, if you just can't.. maybe come back when they add PVE, and start learning then.. Or perhaps when they add AI bots to testing grounds.. which is coming, 2016 from what Russ mentioned, but nothing official as of yet.

Edited by JC Daxion, 01 August 2015 - 04:59 PM.

[CapnOblivious]

The new player experience in this game is pretty terrible and it's really discouraging. Six of my friends have tried to get in to this game in the last month and all six have quit because the game just isn't fun for new people. There really should be a separate queue (or something like it, I don't have any grand suggestions on how to fix this) for people to actually get their feet under them and learn how to play with other new players. I really enjoy this game, I've been playing it since the open beta and it just... it's really disheartening to see what could be so many new players driven away in frustration.

[JC Daxion]

CapnOblivious, on 01 August 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

The new player experience in this game is pretty terrible and it's really discouraging. Six of my friends have tried to get in to this game in the last month and all six have quit because the game just isn't fun for new people. There really should be a separate queue (or something like it, I don't have any grand suggestions on how to fix this) for people to actually get their feet under them and learn how to play with other new players. I really enjoy this game, I've been playing it since the open beta and it just... it's really disheartening to see what could be so many new players driven away in frustration.

Perhaps with the new spectator mode, maybe people can start up Newbie night... set up a private match, Get a bunch of newbies together.. Maybe make teams of 4 or 6 if there are not enough to feild full games.. (in this case use the smaller maps)

Then have a veteran coach on each team watching the game, and giving advice and acting as the commander.. it could go a really long way to helping players understand the game and not get schooled

Dar1ng One, on 01 August 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

Almost 4 years ago I said to Rusty and co, that a single player game would go miles towards helping players get "conditioned" to the beautiful hardness that is MWO. A training campaign where you could pick 1 or 2 mechs after completing.


.

Russ said in his last town hall, they are talking about adding AI bots to training grounds, which is the first step to single player, which they said is coming down the road... But really if ya think about it.. the game was a founder game in 2012.. closed beta this time 3 years ago with 4 mechs. That is a little over 3 years of development, which really is a pretty short time for a AAA game. The last year the game has improved 10 fold since PGI took over.. if single player gets here in 2016, or early 17.. that really is about the time a typical game can take to get launched as a full single player game.. I will be greatly happy when that day comes.. Can't wait for a new mech warrior story line..

[Chados]

I feel ya, man. 12-34 with two kills and 42 deaths here! Average damage/drop is in the 50s and I live about 45 seconds. My K/D ratio is something like 0.06, showing the point that that ELO matching is just a theory. And by the way: I was a company commander back in the old MPBT days and played all the old MW games, so former experience means zippo-we're all rookies to start, some are better than others, and others are WAY better. And I happen to be on the lowest possible tier of Players Who Suck. You, on the other hand, probably are not as bad as I and many others are, so no worries. Rather, you're just new.

I agree, a lot of it is the fact that your're constantly up against better and more experienced players and the learning curve is brutal, you've got basic mechs vs their full-elite chassis, and many of them are spending a bunch of real money as well. It's the same old F2P PvP meta you see in pretty much every F2P game. It's one reason I haven't played in about a week, LOL. They're going to release some PvE at some point and that ought to give those of us who just suck a way to get better without just getting murderized every drop. And some of the guilds are a great way to get I to the game. I may join one IF I ever get to the point I don't embarrass myself every time I drop. Besides, someone's got to give the l33t better players a way to pad their stats, LOL.

All the suck aside, I keep coming back because it's MW and it's like gambling. "Maybe THIS time it won't suck!" And there have been two drops out of 46 that didn't, those were amazing fun. It gives me hope that yes, it will improve in time.

Edited by Chados, 02 August 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[KodiakGW]

Said it many times. Elo is mixing new players in with vets. We have leveled mechs and have so many modules that we are tripping over them. They are just learning the game. There is no safe place for them to learn how to shoot while targets are shooting back, unless they join a team. Because you cannot earn CBills or XP in private matches, many just won't.

I believe I've seen OP in games. I wouldn't be surprised if Elo has made us about the same level because our win/loss is about the same when it determined we were on the winning or losing team.

New player experience. Need to have that fixed before Steam or it's going to be worse than Arkham Knight.

[bad arcade kitty]

KodiakGW, on 02 August 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

Elo is mixing new players in with vets.

not elo, the match making algorithm

also yeah, it's a bit ridiculous, one game i can meet jay z or theb33f and another a first time ever player...

[JC Daxion]

bad arcade kitty, on 02 August 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

not elo, the match making algorithm

also yeah, it's a bit ridiculous, one game i can meet jay z or theb33f and another a first time ever player...

How is this different than any other pvp game though? I played diablo 2, if ya went to a pvp server ya got schooled.. Starcraft, an RTS, ya pvp ya get schooled.. I played city of heroes.. and when pvp was added the first many times i went there i got destroyed.. Starwars galaxies.. i played from launch to the end but rarely pvp'd.. if i did i died horribly, unless it was a total noob.. From what i hear games like counter strike, or CoD, quake, unreal ect.. you die horrible deaths.. EvE, is one of the most vicious games around..

Reall is there any game a newbie can go play pvp, and just have an equal chance of winning? Honestly i have no clue what that could possibly be, but the total nature of pvp is you are going to die when you start until you get good.. If that ever happens, and even when you are good, there are always pros that will romp ya.

serious question.. what games do have a good newbie pvp experience, because honestly in my life i have never found a single one.. *shrug.. either ya get good eventually or your hopeless.. (in my case the later is typically what happens.. which is one reason why i rarely pvp in games.. but some how this game i actually got better! It only took me 6k matches...)

[bad arcade kitty]

well i played for a while both lol and dota and new players there play only vs new players and some 'smurfs' (vets on new accounts) but smurfs which win too much are quickly separated from the real newbies as well

newbies are stomped there anyway though, by smurfs and by other newbies who can grasp how to play faster

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 02 August 2015 - 03:47 PM.

[JC Daxion]

dota.. heh i never played that but there is some huge contest going on now with it.. my friend is addicted with his 2.5k hours of play.. he says he will tell me when the finals are so i can watch.. I never even seen a match.. But i hear it is incredibly addicting.. and judging by the people on steam with hours spent, it has to be

[Palor]

Logan Frost, on 31 July 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

Ive played PVP games for over ten years now and currently enjoy other freetoplay games such as War Thunder and WoT.

Whats the difference? A decently level playing field defined by tiers and battle ratings. This game has nothing of the sort and Im not entirely convinced this ELO thing isnt complete vaporware.

I LOVE Mechwarrior. I have since I was a small child, but a learning curve this steep makes it feel impossible to do anything in and the earnings are so meager it'll take at least another thirty or forty times getting CT'd before I can afford a mech with the goodies I want.

You got a jenner? You need 2 more jenners, get a 300xl and with speed tweak, your jenner is a machine of death. I ran a 3 MPL, Tag and 2 streak build that just made earning c-bills super easy. Tag damage earns bonus bills and tag kills are 6k. C-bills piled in for me, from my jenner I got an atlass, and so on.

This game has a learning curve that feels insurmountable, but if my 10 yo can learn to wreck peoples LRM boats with a light, anyone can. Just play with caution and patience and learn the time to strike.

[Outlaw]

Unless they botch it horribly the BV system will help a lot with these issues. As it is elo and the current matchmaker do not take into account the fact that some Chassis are purely better and more optimized than others, this is something that a BV style system will help with when matching players up. Another suggestion to the OP would be to hop on NGNGs community TS and group drop, that would at least limit having to deal with self centered players that dont care about the rest of ghe team. That said however the fire might be more concentrated especially if you group drop and end up against a 12 man.

[bad arcade kitty]

bv isn't supposed to be used in the mm, it's merely for balancing

anyway bv in mm is a horrible idea because meta works ways faster than that manually set bv thing, so a wrongly appointed bv (meta shifted or it was wrongly appointed from the very beginning) would skew the queue for many weeks if not months till it's fixed... just that some else bv got broken

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 02 August 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[Logan Frost]

I just figured I'd let you all know I'm going to try the stock mech Monday thing tonight. Since I'm just a peasant and can't post in the actual thread yet. Great marketing move by the way, definitely adding another nail to that new player experience coffin.

[Pulstar]

I've also tried, especially after EU server launch. When a game becomes more like actual work it's no fun. Can't get a single kill either. Too bad Legends never added bots!!!

Edited by Pulstar, 03 August 2015 - 01:02 PM.

[PraetorGix]

Yep I have a feeling that it's more your problem than the game's. Keep practicing dude, you will improve no doubt.

[TheLuc]

For Logan Frost and hoping he still with us

I run my Orion like this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1e3a83c9d8b991b

and my Jenner like this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...98f9235f71a7125

BTW the game is hard but most players do loses and die more than anything, the cash still comes in so just concentrate on having fun going pew pew ! Its the only BT game out there and the kickstarter for the turned based BT you wont get crazy customization like we have atm.

For everyone else, most new players I heard, they all going same thing over and over, where is solo mode, where is Coop mode. Devs should really consider as I know much people skipping the game because of that.

The fact that the game is PVP only, right there the game is loosing a big chunk of the MMO RPG crowd, Some long time Mechwarrior fans also skipped it due of lack solo or coop mission based scenarios like previous games and lastly its a mecha game which again its a small portion of worldwide population that has interests in that genre.

Not that I want to sound like Captn Obvious, I just felt like getting it off my chest.

Edited by TheLuc, 03 August 2015 - 03:19 PM.

[Torezu]

1) AI is hard to program, and 2) solo missions are too easy to cash in on, given 1). There is a need for more mission and map variety. Attacking/defending an HPG emplacement or landed dropship, dropping/repelling a Clan assault with a batchall to start, IS arenas with 4v4, 8v8, or even solo matches, etc., etc. There's a lot of room for variety and creativity that it does seem is missing at the moment. Hopefully it will come in as the game and community develop.