45 replies to this topic

[Poisoner]

This annoying rule hurts light mechs with small engine caps. If they heat scale was not so messed up where we could still have true DHS (closed beta we miss you) this would not even be an issue, but it is. Clan lights, the trollmando, and the Locust are hurt the most from this.

[Scout Derek]

As one person said and I quote "this idea has been beaten to death."

Yeah sure it's a ideal thing but will it happen?

Probably not... ;(

[Darian DelFord]

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression they were. Your first 10 engine heatsinks are double if you have double equipped. Any other additional heatsinks above the 10 are factored at 1.4?

Thought this was the case back when we first went to double heat sinks

[Mcgral18]

Darian DelFord, on 11 August 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression they were. Your first 10 engine heatsinks are double if you have double equipped. Any other additional heatsinks above the 10 are factored at 1.4?

Thought this was the case back when we first went to double heat sinks

Partially; if you have a 250 engine this is true. If you have a sub-250, all heatsinks that come with the engine are TrueDubs, but the mandatory first 10 are not all TrueDubs, as all externally (or engine mounted) are still PoorDubs.

As such, a Myth Lynx, LOLcust, Urbie or Cute Fox lose a full TrueDub's worth of dissipation compared to a Firestarter.



Fixing it would require more than just a .XML edit, as this is how heatsinks are currently implemented:

-<Module faction="Clan,InnerSphere" CType="CHeatSinkStats" name="HeatSink_MkI" id="3000">
<ModuleStats health="10" tons="1" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\HeatSink_MkI.dds" descTag="@HeatSink_MkI_desc" nameTag="@HeatSink_MkI"/>
<HeatSinkStats heatbase="-1.0" engineCooling="0.1" cooling="0.1"/>

-<EffectList>
<Effect name="SteamEffect" asset="mech_effects.heatsinks.steam_a"/>
</EffectList>
<Audio OnDestroyedDialogue="BB_Mech_HeatSink_Destroyed"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CHeatSinkStats" name="DoubleHeatSink_MkI" id="3001">
<ModuleStats health="10" tons="1" slots="3"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\DoubleHeatSink_MkI.dds" descTag="@DoubleHeatSink_MkI_desc" nameTag="@DoubleHeatSink_MkI"/>
<HeatSinkStats heatbase="-1.4" engineCooling="0.2" cooling="0.14"/>

You'd need an additional parameter, something like

If (heatsinkNum>=10)
    heatsinkCooling x=0.2

And that causes another issue; does the current game differentiate from individual heatsinks? Is it even possible (currently) to make separate external heatsinks PoorDubs and TrueDubs respectively? Because you'd need to set whichever heatsinks were added first to be TrueDubs, then all following PoorDubs, that pseudo code does not do that.

Because heatsink x would need to individually have a greater cooling.



In the mean time, a heat dissipation quirk of +0.6x fixes the issue, where x is the missing number of TrueDubs. It normalizes all heatsinks to 10 TrueDubs.

[Xetelian]

Please make the first 10 DHS true DHS.


It wont buff the TBR SCR DWF or HBR

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I think all engine heat sinks should be single heat sinks. That'd reduce sustained DPS and increase TTK a bit.

[Deathlike]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 August 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

I think all engine heat sinks should be single heat sinks. That'd reduce sustained DPS and increase TTK a bit.

You're going to bring down the masses of QQ from that type of suggestion.

I hope you bring an umbrella.

Edit: I'm just going to say this..

I don't believe you understand what you're getting into when you just said that.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 August 2015 - 06:16 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Deathlike, on 13 August 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

You're going to bring down the masses of QQ from that type of suggestion.

I hope you bring an umbrella.

Edit: I'm just going to say this..

I don't believe you understand what you're getting into when you just said that.

No worries, I deal with elementary school kids on a daily basis.

[Deathlike]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 August 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

No worries, I deal with elementary school kids on a daily basis.

These are slightly overgrown kids that will actually counter your idea to the death.

[Fate 6]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 August 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

I think all engine heat sinks should be single heat sinks. That'd reduce sustained DPS and increase TTK a bit.

Yeah, cuz that would REAAAAAALLY help light mechs and wouldn't at all buff mechs with an overabundance of pod space....

We'd end up with unuseable lights and hilariously strong Clan mechs (since they have 2 slot doubles). I could go on and on about how this is an absolutely terrible idea but I think my point is already made.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Fate 6, on 13 August 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

Yeah, cuz that would REAAAAAALLY help light mechs and wouldn't at all buff mechs with an overabundance of pod space....

We'd end up with unuseable lights and hilariously strong Clan mechs (since they have 2 slot doubles). I could go on and on about how this is an absolutely terrible idea but I think my point is already made.

Hey, remember how lights did just fine in closed beta when we didn't have DHS? Yeah we'll run hotter and we'll have to do a bit more hit and run to cool down but we've got the speed for it. It will however hurt the cheeto a bit more though since it can't really mount as many heat sinks as say a jenner or firestarter.

As for IS vs Clan tech, Clan tech already runs hot, imagine how hot it'll run with 25-40% less cooling. Sure they can fit more DHS but that still means fewer big energy weapons. Who knows, people might be forced to run mixed load outs, or even range staggered loadouts. What a tragedy that'd be.

[FupDup]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 August 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

I think all engine heat sinks should be single heat sinks. That'd reduce sustained DPS and increase TTK a bit.

That would kill basically energy and many missile loadouts pretty quickly, especially for lower-tonnage mechs who can't boat external heatsinks.

Also, Gauss Rifles. Gauss Rifles everywhere.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 13 August 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

That would kill basically energy and many missile loadouts pretty quickly, especially for lower-tonnage mechs who can't boat external heatsinks.

Also, Gauss Rifles. Gauss Rifles everywhere.

I think it'll bring out the meme "it's happened before... and it'll happen again".

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 13 August 2015 - 06:51 PM, said:

I think it'll bring out the meme "it's happened before... and it'll happen again".

[Rhaythe]

My Blackjack 1X nods in silent, eager agreement.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

FupDup, on 13 August 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

That would kill basically energy and many missile loadouts pretty quickly, especially for lower-tonnage mechs who can't boat external heatsinks.

Also, Gauss Rifles. Gauss Rifles everywhere.

The very lightest mechs and slower mediums are already forced to run 2 or 3 1.4 heat DHS externally instead of getting true dubs. Relatively speaking they'd be less affected.

People used energy weapons and SRMs before we had DHS. Dual guass builds would increase in power of course but it'd be a simple tweak to adjust their power level by say allowing only 1 to charge at a time or by giving them even longer cool downs and faster damage falloff. Now, would it affect a lot of the 8 MPL builds and 6LL builds? Sure. You might see ballistic back ups or more ballistic heavy builds become meta instead.

[FupDup]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 August 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

The very lightest mechs and slower mediums are already forced to run 2 or 3 1.4 heat DHS externally instead of getting true dubs. Relatively speaking they'd be less affected.

...But they also have less tonnage to boat external heatsinks, so not really.

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 August 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

People used energy weapons and SRMs before we had DHS. Dual guass builds would increase in power of course but it'd be a simple tweak to adjust their power level by say allowing only 1 to charge at a time or by giving them even longer cool downs and faster damage falloff. Now, would it affect a lot of the 8 MPL builds and 6LL builds? Sure. You might see ballistic back ups or more ballistic heavy builds become meta instead.

Ballistic-boating Daishis already are able to give laser vomit a run for their money, even with engine dubs...

[El Bandito]

Lights wouldn't suffer from fake dubs too much if they didn't try to compete with other classes on firepower. The heavy CD quirks they receive does not help the matter either. All thanks to PGI's non-existent role-warfare.

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 August 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

People used energy weapons and SRMs before we had DHS. Dual guass builds would increase in power of course but it'd be a simple tweak to adjust their power level by say allowing only 1 to charge at a time or by giving them even longer cool downs and faster damage falloff. Now, would it affect a lot of the 8 MPL builds and 6LL builds? Sure. You might see ballistic back ups or more ballistic heavy builds become meta instead.

Reminded me of my SHS Stalker back in the day. I miss good SRM range action.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 August 2015 - 07:15 PM.

[Fate 6]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 13 August 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

Hey, remember how lights did just fine in closed beta when we didn't have DHS? Yeah we'll run hotter and we'll have to do a bit more hit and run to cool down but we've got the speed for it. It will however hurt the cheeto a bit more though since it can't really mount as many heat sinks as say a jenner or firestarter.

As for IS vs Clan tech, Clan tech already runs hot, imagine how hot it'll run with 25-40% less cooling. Sure they can fit more DHS but that still means fewer big energy weapons. Who knows, people might be forced to run mixed load outs, or even range staggered loadouts. What a tragedy that'd be.

Hey, remember how in closed beta NOBODY HAD DHS?!

In comparison to the Firestarter and Jenner the Cheetah would get a buff with your proposition since it has an XL240 with an external 1.4sink (9 SHS) whereas the FS9/Jenner get 10SHS.

Also, considering clans can mount many more external heat sinks it would just make them comparatively even better since the difference in heat dissipation would be that much larger. The engine heatsinks on a Timber or EBJ or Hellbringer make up much less of their total heat dissipation than the engine heatsinks on any IS heavy.

Edited by Fate 6, 13 August 2015 - 07:25 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Or they could...you know...revamp the heat system by lowering the heat capacity, making heat capacity not map-dependent, but depending on the total number and type of heatsinks, then giving us REAL double heatinks.....just saying....

NOt like we want to fix the heat system or get rid of the need for ghost heat or anything...