241 replies to this topic

[Diomed]

It deserves the name artic cheater.

[Lugh]

Dino Might, on 14 August 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

How does 32 firepower with SRMs match 42 firepower with all hitscan pulse lasers?
If we can use any loadout just to show a max firepower, then try matching this with the Raven:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...418039f5597cd6f

55 firepower. You see, anything you can do on a Raven, you can do better on a Cheeto. ERLL sniper? Still better on a Cheeto. You just have to change the way you play to account for the increased duration. See how your argument can be turned around?

Let's try comparing apples to apples when justifying things...



Well, I've been saying the FS9 needs a nerf as well. Sorry I can't speak for everyone else. But lumping me in with that crowd and then saying my point is invalid because of that association is unfair. Reread what I've posted multiple places. I cite the FS9 as a culprit as well on numerous occasions.

You can't compare apples to apples in this case because of flat out Hard point differences.

Apples to apples is FS to ACH.

At one time the Raven and the Spider were FAR more broken than the ACH is today. It CAN be killed taking the Torsos, but it is FAR easier to leg it.

And both side Torsos can be taken more easily as well.

Hitscan lasers,, the longer the beam duration the better, for the legs of lights is the easy mode way of destroying them, save your ammo for when they get tired and run straight or you take one leg.

[Lightfoot]

I have the same problems with the Spider as the ACH. No difference.

The Shadow Cat only works with a few builds and is easily destroyed. That would be your legitimate balance issue. How did the Scat get the hit-boxes of a heavy mech?

[Logan Frost]

Lightfoot, on 18 August 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

I have the same problems with the Spider as the ACH. No difference.

The Shadow Cat only works with a few builds and is easily destroyed. That would be your legitimate balance issue. How did the Scat get the hit-boxes of a heavy mech?

We'll just pretend the XL Spiders and Firestarters can loose a ST and keep on truckin' then.

The bottom line is that the ACH currently rules the light mech bracket. Most light mechs have some sort of niche they excel in, ECM bubbling, close support, long range support, hunting other lights, harassing heavies. the problem isnt that the ACH does these things, its that it does all these things BETTER than any other mech.

It has ECM.
Its fast and nimble.
Its thin and short from the front.
Its skinny from the side.
It dances like a coke junkie when fluttering JJ's.
Its hitboxes are kinda wonky, no buts about it.
Its got structure buffs that are to Locust standards even though it offers much more offensively and countermeasure wise.
Its clan, so that XL engine doesnt care about loosing a ST.


The ACH's problem isnt its speed, or the ECM, its all those extras it does so well.

Edited by Logan Frost, 19 August 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[SPARTAN 127]

I personally think they should release newer mechs from now on without quirks for the first few weeks it's out on pre-orders and then when it drops for MC or Cbills then it should have quirks added to it.

But you know, paywall for pre-orders and this being a f2p an all....

Another thing, they should really dedicate a whole month or two dedicated to just fixing alot of things in terms of 'balance' and cbill nerfs' i run into at times.because if this goes to steam and issues like this is still going on over OP mechs, this game will last just as long as Tactics did.

[Dino Might]

Lugh, on 18 August 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

You can't compare apples to apples in this case because of flat out Hard point differences.

Apples to apples is FS to ACH.

At one time the Raven and the Spider were FAR more broken than the ACH is today. It CAN be killed taking the Torsos, but it is FAR easier to leg it.

And both side Torsos can be taken more easily as well.

Hitscan lasers,, the longer the beam duration the better, for the legs of lights is the easy mode way of destroying them, save your ammo for when they get tired and run straight or you take one leg.

Your argument is that, "these mechs were broken before, so it's okay the Cheeto is just as broken, now?" Really? Is this just a way of "righting the past wrongs against the Clanners?" "We demand reparations!" I thought the whole point of balance was improving the gameplay, not a metronome of back and forth broken OP mechs jumping into the fray.

I don't need advice on how to kill Cheetahs. I know how to fight just about every mech in the game. What I don't know how to do is travel back in time to prevent the ACH abomination from being released on MWO in its present state. Seriously, I have not heard a single good argument for why the ACH is acceptable as-is, except for the people advocating buffing other lights to its status. It is the dominant light in the game for a reason. It's so much more powerful than all the other lights in the game, except for the FS9. It's only just a normal amount of better, rather than WTFBBQOP by comparison. And that seems reasonable to you? I think you win this one. I can't continue to argue with a wall.

Tonight I took out a Cheeto for one match (it's all I can stomach before I start throwing up in my mouth a bit). I played stupid, ran into the enemy solo, and took on a Hellbringer on my own. The enemy team was around the corner, and while I was fighting the HBR, 4 other enemy mechs were shooting at me. I managed to kill the HBR, still solo, while a total of 5 enemies were fighting me. I died with no external armor left, orange CT internal and cherry red RT internal and head intact, and nothing else. And I didn't do anything special with that mech. Just point and click my small pulse alpha, and I ultimately killed him with a rear CT shot. This mech is busted, dude. Sorry. It's not even fun to play because you have such an advantage.

Edited by Dino Might, 20 August 2015 - 09:02 PM.

[spectralthundr]

Dino Might, on 20 August 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

Your argument is that, "these mechs were broken before, so it's okay the Cheeto is just as broken, now?" Really? Is this just a way of "righting the past wrongs against the Clanners?" "We demand reparations!" I thought the whole point of balance was improving the gameplay, not a metronome of back and forth broken OP mechs jumping into the fray.

I don't need advice on how to kill Cheetahs. I know how to fight just about every mech in the game. What I don't know how to do is travel back in time to prevent the ACH abomination from being released on MWO in its present state. Seriously, I have not heard a single good argument for why the ACH is acceptable as-is, except for the people advocating buffing other lights to its status. It is the dominant light in the game for a reason. It's so much more powerful than all the other lights in the game, except for the FS9. It's only just a normal amount of better, rather than WTFBBQOP by comparison. And that seems reasonable to you? I think you win this one. I can't continue to argue with a wall.

Tonight I took out a Cheeto for one match (it's all I can stomach before I start throwing up in my mouth a bit). I played stupid, ran into the enemy solo, and took on a Hellbringer on my own. The enemy team was around the corner, and while I was fighting the HBR, 4 other enemy mechs were shooting at me. I managed to kill the HBR, still solo, while a total of 5 enemies were fighting me. I died with no external armor left, orange CT internal and cherry red RT internal and head intact, and nothing else. And I didn't do anything special with that mech. Just point and click my small pulse alpha, and I ultimately killed him with a rear CT shot. This mech is busted, dude. Sorry. It's not even fun to play because you have such an advantage.

Quoted just for how spot on it is. Basically saying it's ok because other lights have been broken in the past, and really the FS still is with hitbox issues, is devoid of logic.

[ChewBaka]

ugrakarma, on 13 August 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

Great article and I'm glad you put it here as well. I kind of disagree with you on one thing though. I think other lights should be buffed to ACH level instead of nerfing a good chassis.

From a heavy and assault pilot point of view I see them in a good place whereas from the Firestarter cockpit can't even go near them.

This.

I'm surprised your suggestion doesn't have more support. Fact is however OP the 'cheeter' supposedly is, lights are still the least played mech and are consistently the lowest % in the queue. Concerns about an ACH zerg rush when it is available for c-bills are exaggerated. Yes, it will happen but so did it for every new mech. The buzz will die down soon enough. The light queue was quite high for the initial weeks after the wave release. Its back down to normal now, which is to say underutilized.

Give players a reason to play lights, Don't nerf the Cheetah. Buff the Firestarters, Ravens, Jenners, and especially the poor neglected Commando.

Anyone who thinks light mechs are OP can pilot them instead of complaining yet crowding out the Heavy queue.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Charlie Pohr, on 20 August 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

I'm surprised your suggestion doesn't have more support. Fact is however OP the 'cheeter' supposedly is, lights are still the least played mech and are consistently the lowest % in the queue. Concerns about an ACH zerg rush when it is available for c-bills are exaggerated. Yes, it will happen but so did it for every new mech. The buzz will die down soon enough. The light queue was quite high for the initial weeks after the wave release. Its back down to normal now, which is to say underutilized.
Give players a reason to play lights, Don't nerf the Cheetah. Buff the Firestarters, Ravens, Jenners, and especially the poor neglected Commando.
Anyone who thinks light mechs are OP can pilot them instead of complaining yet crowding out the Heavy queue.

Buffing the firestarter, yeah that wil be a great idea.


You buff all lights, nobody will play meds. Why play slower easier to hit mechs with nearly the same firepower? Then you'll need to buff the meds almost all across the board. Then Assaults will become useless because their advantage in firepower (if they even had that now) and durability will be nullified. So you'll need to buff assaults Then heavy pilots will start to cry... Yup, a much better idea than to nerf than one OP light...

FFS man. Lights aren't bad, they are just less forgiving. I've seen skillfull pilots wrecking face in jenners. In conquest or assault they can already often decide upon victory themselves. They could use some special advantages, like lower range to detect, more time to show the ragdoll, etc. You know, things to make them more fleshed out and different. Better at sneaking up, better at scouting. Maps are getting bigger, thus scouting makes a bit more sense now.

Also, there won't ever bee 25% of light mechs in game consistently unless lights will be blatantly OP in terms of firepower and survivability. Most come here to play big stompy robots, not small nimble robots. It's not the small nible robots that lure people to this game.

[Moldur]

Yet people accept the Firestarter's current existence.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Moldur, on 21 August 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

Yet people accept the Firestarter's current existence.

...barely.

[Yokaiko]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 21 August 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

.

Also, there won't ever bee 25% of light mechs in game consistently unless lights will be blatantly OP in terms of firepower and survivability. Most come here to play big stompy robots, not small nimble robots. It's not the small nible robots that lure people to this game.

The fact that the game basically rewards raw damage and raw damage only is a pretty big part of it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Is the Arctic Cheetah really broken? When I hit it with a 70 point Alpha or two absolutely its broken.

[ChewBaka]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 21 August 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

Buffing the firestarter, yeah that wil be a great idea.


You buff all lights, nobody will play meds. Why play slower easier to hit mechs with nearly the same firepower? Then you'll need to buff the meds almost all across the board. Then Assaults will become useless because their advantage in firepower (if they even had that now) and durability will be nullified. So you'll need to buff assaults Then heavy pilots will start to cry... Yup, a much better idea than to nerf than one OP light...

FFS man. Lights aren't bad, they are just less forgiving. I've seen skillfull pilots wrecking face in jenners. In conquest or assault they can already often decide upon victory themselves. They could use some special advantages, like lower range to detect, more time to show the ragdoll, etc. You know, things to make them more fleshed out and different. Better at sneaking up, better at scouting. Maps are getting bigger, thus scouting makes a bit more sense now.

Also, there won't ever bee 25% of light mechs in game consistently unless lights will be blatantly OP in terms of firepower and survivability. Most come here to play big stompy robots, not small nimble robots. It's not the small nible robots that lure people to this game.

Hmm...suppose you have a point...

[Praehotec8]

I did just play a single game in an ACH...and boy, it felt nice for a light. I am a TERRIBLE light pilot. I SHUT DOWN, right in front of a whale, with one of my leg's armor gone, and not only did it fail to kill me, I was able to power up, cool down and then kill IT. It felt so wrong...and yet so right at the same time!

[Kroete]

Its not worth talking about balance and the ach,
its in the buymeforrealmoney-mode.

Wait until its out for cb and its adjusted for that,
then we can talk about balance.

But talking about advantages to make more money for then, is a nono, like p2w (even its only temporary.)


Edit:
If its not in the moneymode, then they showed, again,
that they dont know anything about their game and give quirks by dicerolls.

There is no other explanation why a new ecm, clan, more weapons, jumpjet mech
has as much quirks as the some of the worsest is mechs.

Edited by Kroete, 21 August 2015 - 02:41 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

After facing numerous Arctic Cheetahs I have to say it seems like something is broken I am not sure if it is their hit reg. or if it is their hit boxes but they seem to be tanking through multiple Inner Sphere AC20 shots to the them. I can say it isn't that they are torso twisting and spreading them across this is front armor just seems tougher than what it should be on a light mech at that tonnage. So far though the only weak spot I have found is it's ass, you got to get it from behind and hit it with everything and it goes down in one alpha (but so do many mechs from this but it seems the only way to kill them in one shot).

[Weztside]

With all of the Arctic Cheetah hate flying around the fact that the Shadowcat is a **** has gone unnoticed. lol

[SPARTAN 127]

Weztside, on 21 August 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

With all of the Arctic Cheetah hate flying around the fact that the Shadowcat is a **** has gone unnoticed. lol

Just watch, as soon as we're done complaining at the Artic Cheetah, Shadowcat's next. xD

No mech shall be uncomplained.

[spectralthundr]

Weztside, on 21 August 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

With all of the Arctic Cheetah hate flying around the fact that the Shadowcat is a **** has gone unnoticed. lol

The Scat is fine, play it like a hit and run support mech which is it's role anyway.