107 replies to this topic

[Koniks]

Matchmaker's taking a long time to find whatever competition I'm supposed to face. And for me, at least, the types of opponents I face haven't changed much compared to the matchmaker they just scrapped.

[JohnnyWayne]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 20 August 2015 - 08:29 PM, said:

Life is not fair

I can quit MWO easier than life.

[TexAce]

OPs thread is beyond stupid.

1. What the hell are you doing with that mech in the group queue?
2. A good pilot can carry his weight in any mech. If you really need those skills mastered to have decent matches then be happy PSR will drop you sooner or later where you belong in.
3. 99% of the community wanted good and even matches, and now we have them, even in pub queue but you must be a special snowflake, do you?
4. Are you a kitty or a man? Get though it boy and enjoy your mech.

Edited by TexAce, 21 August 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[Night Thastus]

Your PSR has nothing to do with "potential" or what 'Mechs you're bringing. It has to do with how well you do in the matches. AKA: Match score.

High match score + Win = Go up
High Match Score + Loss = Stay where you are
Low Match Score + Win = Stay where you are
Low Match Score + Loss = Go down

[JohnnyWayne]

TexAce, on 21 August 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

OPs thread is beyond stupid.

1. What the hell are you doing with that mech in the group queue?
2. A good pilot can carry his weight in any mech. If you really need those skills mastered to have decent matches then be happy PSR will drop you sooner or later where you belong in.
3. 99% of the community wanted good and even matches, and now we have them, even in pub queue but you must be a special snowflake, do you?
4. Are you a kitty or a man? Get though it boy and enjoy your mech.

Just reading your first two points shows me that you havn't played in this MMR ranges and against these players. Please shut up. Personally I havn't played since Thuesday. Had enough after 5 matches.

[TexAce]

JohnnyWayne, on 21 August 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Just reading your first two points shows me that you havn't played in this MMR ranges and against these players. Please shut up. Personally I havn't played since Thuesday. Had enough after 5 matches.

I have played several matched against those guys, but guess what, if I have to level a mech I do it in the pub queue, not in the shark tank. Because everyone and his grandma and the grandma's goldfish know that you don't level your new mechs in the group queue. Especially not if you are in a higher tier. Plus looking at his numbers he has no clue how to pilot awesomes at all. And I have over 1500 matches in those.

Edited by TexAce, 21 August 2015 - 03:23 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

JohnnyWayne, on 21 August 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Just reading your first two points shows me that you havn't played in this MMR ranges and against these players. Please shut up. Personally I havn't played since Thuesday. Had enough after 5 matches.

So it has nothing to do with OP's mech choice? If people know they are going to face top level units/players in group queue and they bring crap mechs, PGI should baby them somehow?

Sure, there should probably be different PSR per chassis (or variant even) but there isn't. This is what we have to work with as a whole.

[M4rtyr]

Actually I just thought of this... how the hell does PSR work with groups?

PSR is calculated via what you do yourself. So if you have a tier 1 and a 5 in the same group how do they fit into matches since other tier 1's aren't supposed to ever face tier 4 or 5. Would opponents be limited to tier 2 or what I think more likely does the system just not cover that and find anyone for a quick match start.

[JohnnyWayne]

Lyoto Machida, on 21 August 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

So it has nothing to do with OP's mech choice? If people know they are going to face top level units/players in group queue and they bring crap mechs, PGI should baby them somehow?

Sure, there should probably be different PSR per chassis (or variant even) but there isn't. This is what we have to work with as a whole.

Crap mechs? So you are telling me I have only 5 clan mechs or 5 overquriked cookie cutter mechs of the IS to play because you think its supposed to be that way? Oh well intersting then it has to be that way of course.

And you arnt allowed to play with friends either while leveling mechs (which is litterally this games whole content). If you are good you have to play cometetively, is it that what you are telling me?

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 21 August 2015 - 03:31 PM.

[EekaBlitzer]

Some pretty nasty vituperative comments against the OP
Without some balancing mechanism for the actual mech a player is fielding, including its XP state, the current system would seem to be pushing MWO into a much narrower selection of 'Meta' mechs.
I enjoy seeing a good variety of mechs in a game, and it must be in PGI's interest that players want to collect as many mechs as they can , so PGI can maximise their revenue, and new players can go for the mechs that appeal to them, rather than being told that only a few types are 'viable'.

[TexAce]

EekaBlitzer, on 21 August 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

Some pretty nasty vituperative comments against the OP
Without some balancing mechanism for the actual mech a player is fielding, including its XP state, the current system would seem to be pushing MWO into a much narrower selection of 'Meta' mechs.
I enjoy seeing a good variety of mechs in a game, and it must be in PGI's interest that players want to collect as many mechs as they can , so PGI can maximise their revenue, and new players can go for the mechs that appeal to them, rather than being told that only a few types are 'viable'.

The thing is, that is just not true. With the exception of some outliers (I'm looking at you Cent D, MLX) it's pretty possible to rise up the tiers in any mech, as long as you are a good pilot. And even if the beginning is harsh, so what, we don't have per mech PSR, so live with it. It's not like it takes weeks to elite a mech.

[Dimento Graven]

TexAce, on 21 August 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

OPs thread is beyond stupid.

1. What the hell are you doing with that mech in the group queue?

...

I have to admit I very extremely rarely will roll with a 'mech I'm not capable of putting out some serious damage in while I'm dropping in the group queue.

Leveling 'mechs is typically a solo endeavor, and although I have on occasion dropped in a non-optimized, non-max skilled 'mech while group, when I find myself under performing, as a matter of just plain politeness I move to a better 'mech to support my group mates.

NOW, that said, it's not totally unheard of, of multiple people telling their group, "Hey I'm gonna work on leveling this 'mech," and as long as the rest of the group is ok with it, no problem.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I imagine the later is what Flyby was doing.

Still it shouldn't be suprising that if your skill level places you in the top tier where lesser skilled players are typically excluded from, you're going to have to deal with fiercer competition. HOPEFULLY gone are the days where it was common to have NEW players and people with 10fps ending up in your match, so ultimately, maybe what we're seeing is MM working as it was actually intended to, and the ONLY way you're going to have a 'normalized' experience playing a sub-optimal 'mech in the group queue is to, again, lose enough to be put beyond reach of the high end players you ACTUALLY qualify to play with...

The rest of what TexAce said, meh... Not looking to debate the merits of anything else, really.

[Dimento Graven]

EekaBlitzer, on 21 August 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

...

Without some balancing mechanism for the actual mech a player is fielding, including its XP state, the current system would seem to be pushing MWO into a much narrower selection of 'Meta' mechs.

...

I and many others have suggested that not only should there be a "grouped" and "solo" PSR, but a "grouped" and "solo" PSR, PER 'mech, and yes, I do indeed mean PER 'mech. I have multiples of some chassis, built very differently, that are played VERY differently, and that perform VERY differently. Also given that my style of play is VERY different while grouped as opposed to playing solo, there's an extreme performance difference potential there as well.

All a 'single value' PSR does is average my performance across all the 'mechs I play, and grouped verses solo.

Also, given the extreme differences of 'mech performance based on which map you might end up on, there's even room to argue that there should be grouped and solo PSR's per 'mech, per MAP as well.

You want to 'maximize' the potential for balance, you gotta have a complete set of statistics to work with. Kind of like in real sports where they factor in how well a left handed batter does against right handed pitcher, left handed pitchers, night games vs. day games, what game in the series, so on and so forth...

Anyway... Just wanted to elaborate on that point a bit...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 21 August 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

JohnnyWayne, on 21 August 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

I can quit MWO easier than life.

prove it XD

Night Thastus, on 21 August 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Your PSR has nothing to do with "potential" or what 'Mechs you're bringing. It has to do with how well you do in the matches. AKA: Match score.

Which Im finding is very easy to game with lrms oddly. Even when I do ****** I get a great score

[Andan]

I love how most of the MWO community defends the inadaquecies of this game as some sort of right of passage and benefit to the player/consumer. This mentallity is exactly why MWO has such a hard time bringing in new blood. If you say that this is a cliche game, or a hard game, or a thinking shooter...those are excuses you make for a low player pop, poor game design.

Other F2P games like this realize this. The successful ones have a competent tutorial to initially welcome a new player in. Those games place a new player in a very slow paced game. One that allows them to make mistakes against other players without being one shot. They also realize not all equipment (I use equpment as a general term. Place mech here if this is the only game like this you have played)players play in will be equal. They rate that equipment as such and prevent you from playing against the higher tier equipement. If MM at the time has to put you in a bad matchup those games usually have a score multiplier. That makes it so the player doesnt feel totally screwed for an eff'd up situation. MWO is hard for a new player becuase it places them against veteran players...players with master mechs and modules that do enough alpha to end the game in 1 minute...guess what...back to the search window for 10 minutes. The pacing of this game is also to fast at those levels. A new player can't keep up with the CoD/BF style combat with no respawn while trying to learn positioning/mech nuances/weapons/quirks/heat/...the list doesnt stop. Its the stubborn MF's that stay to figure it out. It's the stubborn MF's that can't see the kettle is black.

Most of these style games after 2 years don't have nearly as many core issues that MWO currently has. I am not listing them, but we all work around them or accept them, like its some sort of badge of honor. I have been playing PC games for a long time now. While I have time and money invested in this game, I am not nieve and know when I see something wrong and am willing to say "Hey thats eff'd up"

We all know the awesome is a great table top mech, but made a bad transition to a fps. Most of the big mechs don't transition well to pinpoint damage/convergence issues/heat issues......, unless they can bring enough high alpha to intimidate another player into gaining an advantage. Look at the top mechs right now. Even a DW once focused is an easy beast to take out. Someone just has to be the sacrificial lamb for the high alphas. The Awesome is a pre clan mech. It doesn't have that power creep that tends to effect every mech since. Most of the quirks don't help the fact the big mechs need armor and structure to survive. How many pre-clan atlas pilots were amazing at the brawl? How many amazing brawl atlas's do you see now? They get focus'd out before they are effective..

I feel like the influential 1% have the voice for the 99%. I don't question this becuase they make the most of that voice with videos/streams and other content to bring new faces in. But I also feel the 1% doesnt realize that its the 99% that pays the bills.

[TexAce]

Dimento Graven, on 21 August 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

I and many others have suggested that not only should there be a "grouped" and "solo" PSR, but a "grouped" and "solo" PSR, PER 'mech, and yes, I do indeed mean PER 'mech. I have multiples of some chassis, built very differently, that are played VERY differently, and that perform VERY differently. Also given that my style of play is VERY different while grouped as opposed to playing solo, there's an extreme performance difference potential there as well.

All a 'single value' PSR does is average my performance across all the 'mechs I play, and grouped verses solo.

Also, given the extreme differences of 'mech performance based on which map you might end up on, there's even room to argue that there should be grouped and solo PSR's per 'mech, per MAP as well.

You want to 'maximize' the potential for balance, you gotta have a complete set of statistics to work with. Kind of like in real sports where they factor in how well a left handed batter does against right handed pitcher, left handed pitchers, night games vs. day games, what game in the series, so on and so forth...

Anyway... Just wanted to elaborate on that point a bit...

Sorry but no, I'm against psr per mech. We have quirks for that. It's either or. People should stop demanding for every mech to be balanced against every other. They are not. That's what is making them special. What doesn't work for you in a special mech, could be great for another pilot. Perhaps OP is just crap with awesomes. There are enough AWE pilots who can play in comp matches with them and do well. Perhaps it's harder than in a dire whale but perhaps I like exactly this fact.

Edited by TexAce, 21 August 2015 - 04:17 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

TexAce, on 21 August 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

Sorry but no, I'm against psr per mech. We have quirks for that. It's either or. People should stop demanding for every mech to be balanced against every other. They are not. That's what is making them special. What doesn't work for you in a special mech, could be great for another pilot. Perhaps OP is just crap with awesomes. There are enough AWE pilots who can play in comp matches with them and do well. Perhaps it's harder than in a dire whale but perhaps I like exactly this fact.

Oh you misunderstood.

The PSR is per 'mech, not for balancing 'mechs but for getting better at creating better matches between players. I perform MUCH differently in my Firestarters than I do in my King Crabs, than I do in my Hunchbacks, than I do in my laser boat Stalker, than I do in my LRM boat Stalker.

Likewise I perform differently while grouped than while solo, and so on.

Again, I'm not trying to balance 'mechs, I'm trying to balance matches.

To truly begin balancing 'mechs would require the implementation of a real heat affects table, not just a "shoot until you shut down" mechanic like we have now.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 21 August 2015 - 04:42 PM.

[JohnnyWayne]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

prove it XD

I kinda already quit MWO, since im so burnt out on it. Dota2 is the game of the hour it seems... Oo

As you asked - I did prove it .

[Sable]

You could try leveling them in solo queue. All the matches posted were of group matches. And you should be proud of yourself, your tier is high enough to attract some heavy contenders. MS premades, EMP premades, SJR premades. Take it as a compliment and accept that all new mechs get a freakin hard trial by fire.

[Davers]

Dimento Graven, on 21 August 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Oh you misunderstood.

The PSR is per 'mech, not for balancing 'mechs but for getting better at creating better matches between players. I perform MUCH differently in my Firestarters than I do in my King Crabs, than I do in my Hunchbacks, than I do in my laser boat Stalker, than I do in my LRM boat Stalker.

Likewise I perform differently while grouped than while solo, and so on.

Again, I'm not trying to balance 'mechs, I'm trying to balance matches.

To truly begin balancing 'mechs would require the implementation of a real heat affects table, not just a "shoot until you shut down" mechanic like we have now.

We can't have it per mech, or the Tier 1 guys will be having a field day every time a new mech is released.