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#1 Zvolimir the Blackhand

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 08:02 AM

Where do we direct complaints about how the forums are moderated?

#2 VorpalAnvil

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 09:19 AM

Reddit.

#3 Nightmare1

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 01:04 PM

View PostZvolimir the Blackhand, on 30 August 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

Where do we direct complaints about how the forums are moderated?


Shhh! That topic is verboten and will be moderated! :unsure:

Seriously though, the only way to do that is to e-mail Moderation using the Support e-mail. Technically, it's against the CoC to make complaints here on the forums. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if this thread gets locked soon.

#4 Appogee

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 01:43 PM

There is nothing wrong with the way the forums are moderated.

Therefore, there is no need to have a place for complaints to be directed to.

#5 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 05:36 PM

View PostZvolimir the Blackhand, on 30 August 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

Where do we direct complaints about how the forums are moderated?


you can send complaints there moderation@mwomercs.com

#6 IraqiWalker

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:35 AM

View PostNightmare1, on 30 August 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:


Shhh! That topic is verboten and will be moderated! :unsure:

Seriously though, the only way to do that is to e-mail Moderation using the Support e-mail. Technically, it's against the CoC to make complaints here on the forums. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if this thread gets locked soon.


Actually, this topic is still within ToS, and CoC.

DISCUSSING Moderation of a case is not kosher though. However, just asking "where can I complain about moderation" is very much okay.

View Postbad arcade kitty, on 30 August 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:


you can send complaints there moderation@mwomercs.com

That's the e-mail to contact. OP, direct your complaints to that one.

#7 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 04:40 AM

"DISCUSSING Moderation of a case is not kosher though."

No. You can say "the moderators are doing a good job" and be okay.

What you can't say is "I don't agree moderators are doing a good job". I know firsthand.

You can try to complain about moderator abuse, as I have done. You will get the usual boilerplate response.

So your best option is to close your wallet until the problem is resolved to your satisfaction. Right now, its costing PGI $100 a month to prove they are more stubborn than me. So far they are "winning" at a cost of $500 and counting.

Good luck.

#8 Nightmare1

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 05:27 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 31 August 2015 - 12:35 AM, said:


Actually, this topic is still within ToS, and CoC.

DISCUSSING Moderation of a case is not kosher though. However, just asking "where can I complain about moderation" is very much okay.


Shh!! That depends on the Moderator! There are some activist types out there that will bend anything you say to make it fit the CoC's "Moderate this stuff" clauses.

#9 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 06:40 AM

Yah, there needs to be some reform. I think it will be difficult because, while the majority of the player base is American, PGI is Canadian-based and Canada has some very strong restrictions against freedom of speech, so the culture is different. Also, I'm afraid PGI still regards all CoC "violators" as reddit trolls until proven otherwise.

If I were Community Manager (who volunteer mods fall under) I would consider the following changes:

1) moderators are not allowed to moderate political threads they are participating in.

2) moderators are not allowed to stalk players around the forums and harass them.

3) moderators will provide their supervisor's contact info, when asked.

4) moderators are not allowed to intercept reported posts about themselves and squelch them.

5) moderators who display a pattern and history of abusing their authority will be removed.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 31 August 2015 - 07:57 AM.


#10 VorpalAnvil

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 10:10 AM

View PostAppogee, on 30 August 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

There is nothing wrong with the way the forums are moderated.

Therefore, there is no need to have a place for complaints to be directed to.


http://www.visitswed...ties/Stockholm/

#11 Appogee

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 10:20 AM

View PostVorpalAnvil, on 31 August 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:


But I sympathise with their plight and am prepared to rally to their cause!

#12 IraqiWalker

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 10:42 AM

View PostFenrisulvyn, on 31 August 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

"DISCUSSING Moderation of a case is not kosher though."

No. You can say "the moderators are doing a good job" and be okay.

What you can't say is "I don't agree moderators are doing a good job". I know firsthand.

You can try to complain about moderator abuse, as I have done. You will get the usual boilerplate response.

So your best option is to close your wallet until the problem is resolved to your satisfaction. Right now, its costing PGI $100 a month to prove they are more stubborn than me. So far they are "winning" at a cost of $500 and counting.

Good luck.

"I don't agree moderators are doing a good job".

That part you can usually say, and get away with.

Again, it's all about the scope of specificity. You can not discuss anything within a moderated case. Here are a couple of examples to illustrate my point:

A-
1- People are discussing something (politics, religion ... etc.), and things get way out of hand
2- Moderator shows up, and starts editing/deleting posts.
3- Players complain that the moderation was uncalled for, or go on to another thread, and start telling their story.

What happened in step 3 is a no no.

B-
1- People are discussing something (politics, religion ... etc.), and things get way out of hand
2- Moderator shows up, and starts editing/deleting posts.
3- Players make a forum thread speaking in generalities about moderation being too strict, or in need of revisiting

What happened in step 3 there is not a no no. So long as no specific cases are brought up, you can talk about it, but talking about time X when you got moderated in thread Y over saying something Z is a violation.

So no specifics, keep it general. By the way, virtually all of the moderators on the forums are volunteer mods. Meaning that any e-mails complaining about their conduct, don't go to them, or through them.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 31 August 2015 - 10:42 AM.


#13 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:28 AM

"That part you can usually say, and get away with."

Nope. That's not been my direct experience. And I can prove it.


"By the way, virtually all of the moderators on the forums are volunteer mods. Meaning that any e-mails complaining about their conduct, don't go to them, or through them."

Again, I have first-hand experience that says you are wrong. And I expect to be punished merely for saying that.

#14 Scout Derek

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:32 AM

View PostNightmare1, on 31 August 2015 - 05:27 AM, said:


Shh!! That depends on the Moderator! There are some activist types out there that will bend anything you say to make it fit the CoC's "Moderate this stuff" clauses.

I'll be watching this, moreover to protect a couple rather than to get them in trouble.

View PostFenrisulvyn, on 31 August 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

"That part you can usually say, and get away with."

Nope. That's not been my direct experience. And I can prove it.


"By the way, virtually all of the moderators on the forums are volunteer mods. Meaning that any e-mails complaining about their conduct, don't go to them, or through them."

Again, I have first-hand experience that says you are wrong. And I expect to be punished merely for saying that.

This is true, we don't get emails concerning us at all.

And no, you aren't expected to be punished for saying that, but explaining them yes, you'll get punished for that. (though I'll probably remove posts before someone reports you if possible)

#15 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:37 AM

"This is true, we don't get emails concerning us at all."

Scott, I am not saying emails, I am saying that if you hit the report button on a post by a moderator, that moderator can intercept and squelch that report. That's not right, moderators should not be allowed to judge cases where they are the accused party.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 31 August 2015 - 11:38 AM.


#16 Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:44 AM

View PostFenrisulvyn, on 31 August 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

I think it will be difficult because, while the majority of the player base is American, PGI is Canadian-based and Canada has some very strong restrictions against freedom of speech, so the culture is different.


Lolwut?

Canada is definitly closer to being a democracy then the US of A.

#17 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:46 AM

That's not what I said. And I'm not getting into a political discussion about it here.

#18 Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:52 AM

View PostFenrisulvyn, on 31 August 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

And I'm not getting into a political discussion about it here.


Fair enough. Needless to say that this is just because you don't want to and not because you (and sadly me as well) have no anonymity on the internet.

Still, where did you get that from, if I may ask?

View PostFenrisulvyn, on 31 August 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Canada has some very strong restrictions against freedom of speech


#19 Appogee

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:00 PM

Truth is, moderators have a difficult job. I moderated a tech media site for a decade. You try to achieve consistency of policy and action across all the moderators, while using your best judgement, and not trying to create a zillion rules that put a dampener on the fun.

However, in every forum there are trolls who get their kicks by trying to play forum lawyer, alleging inconsistency, favourtism, 'being too strict', 'being not strict enough', and generally trying to tangle you up in your own words and policies. You can never please them, because they don't want to be pleased. They get their kicks from creating discontent.

I concluded you have to moderate in accordance with agreed principles, use your judgement instead of hard and fast 'rules', and just don't get drawn into unproductive time-wasting arguments with wannabe forum lawyers. The silent majority generally appreciate the effort you put into it as long as they can see that you're doing your best to be fair.

Every now and again we'd get a bad moderator on a power trip, or someone who'd been doing it so long they lost their patience. We took breaks from time to time to avoid burnout and loss of perspective.

#20 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:01 PM

Sthtopokeon: "Still, where did you get that from, if I may ask?"

Sorry, I can't respond. I have a special friend hanging on every word I post, looking for the slightest cause to ban me.


Appogee: "Every now and again we'd get a bad moderator on a power trip, or someone who'd been doing it so long they lost their patience."

What did you do in those cases? Was there any kind of CoC to rein in bad moderators? I'm asking because in every conversation I have had with players about this, they immediately guess the name of the moderator in question, without any identifying hints - so this one is a known problem around the community. In fact, I'll lay even money that the OP of this thread is complaining about the same moderator.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 31 August 2015 - 12:12 PM.






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