97 replies to this topic

[Yellonet]

I would really appreciate an IS only solo mode, just like the current solo mode, but without any clan mechs.

In my opinion it would make for a much more balanced and fun game if there were only IS mechs because IS mechs seem way more balanced relative to each other than compared to clan mechs.
As it is now the clans have the best mechs in every class (that is fact, not opinion), and while that may be as it should according to BT lore, it works very poorly in a game.
Sure, with mixed teams both teams will almost always have clan mechs, but most of the time, one of the teams have more of them, and that can often be the edge that tips the scale.

Furthermore, to me it's just no fun knowing that you're going up against other players that have much better mechs. Getting killed by a clanner as I've barely scratched his paint always makes me rage a bit because it just feels so unfair.
Yes yes I know, everyone can use clan mechs, but how fun would that be if nobody used IS mechs? IS mechs do seem to be the core of the game and clans to be the addition that has ruined the balance.

So please PGI, let me play a fair and balanced game without the clans.

[El Bandito]

Wait for 9/22, then make this thread, mate. The balance patch might shake things up, though I have no reason to believe the Crow/Timbie/Whale will move down from "the best" spot. Unless IS tech gets significant boost, that is.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 September 2015 - 03:35 PM.

[Kira Onime]

There comes a point where options become "too many options".
This game doesn't have the population to support multiple game modes even more so when you consider most of teh game modes currently in the game probably need to be rebuilt from scratch.

[Yellonet]

Kira_Onime, on 05 September 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

There comes a point where options become "too many options".
This game doesn't have the population to support multiple game modes even more so when you consider most of teh game modes currently in the game probably need to be rebuilt from scratch.

Why would game modes need to be rebuilt?
Also, I'd rather choose between clans or no clans than what game mode I want to play.

[Kira Onime]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Why would game modes need to be rebuilt?

While rebuilt might of been an exaggeration, both CW in its entirety and assault *base capture mode* need to be looked at.

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Also, I'd rather choose between clans or no clans than what game mode I want to play.

Maybe once the game hits steam and the population is in a healthy state to support it.

[Sjorpha]

Agree in principle, disagree in practice.

In principle: Yes, I also think the game would be better and more balanced without clan tech. Possibly even without the more advanced IS tech as well.

In practice: No, there are two simple facts in the way. 1) Clan tech is already in the game, there is no way to remove it in a game with monetized mechs. 2) There are not enough players to split the queue. Combine 1 and 2 and your idea is simpy not doable.

[Alan Davion]

Kira_Onime, on 05 September 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

There comes a point where options become "too many options".
This game doesn't have the population to support multiple game modes even more so when you consider most of teh game modes currently in the game probably need to be rebuilt from scratch.

Do you really think the game has that many options right now?

Because there's only 3 game modes, where as most games like CoD, BF and more have anywhere from 4-6 at the minimum, up to maybe 8... Maybe more.

Granted those games do have a population probably in the range of 3-4 times more than MWO, but I think Yellonet has a good idea.

Introducing options for IS vs IS only and Clan vs Clan in the public queue would allow for more evenly matched games. Yes it might increase search times, but it would just be another filter option really. We're able to choose game mode, server location. A "Tech Level" option would be a great way to help newer players.

Imagine a new player completes the new "Academy" tutorial once it's fully live, but that person still has a lot to learn. Once they're at the mech bay menu, a message might recommend that they choose the filter options "Skirmish, North American Server, IS Only". Seeing as they'd most likely be in an IS mech like a Commando, Raven or Jenner, this would let them play against only other IS mechs to give them a much fairer experience and allow the learning curve to not be as steep as it currently is, giving them more time in their IS mech against other IS mechs to get used to how the game plays.

After a while, say they've purchased, fully equipped and fully skilled out 3 mechs, say the aforementioned Jenner series, they'd then switch from IS vs IS to IS vs Clan to give themselves an added challenge.

[Yellonet]

Another thing, the "meta", IMO is mostly also a problem with clan mechs, sure IS mechs also have meta builds, but I don't think they are as powerful as the clan meta builds, as such we would somewhat get away from meta gaming as excluding clan tech would make more IS builds viable.

[Kira Onime]

Alan Davion, on 05 September 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

Do you really think the game has that many options right now?

Because there's only 3 game modes, where as most games like CoD, BF and more have anywhere from 4-6 at the minimum, up to maybe 8... Maybe more.

Granted those games do have a population probably in the range of 3-4 times more than MWO, but I think Yellonet has a good idea.

Please quote me where I say it's a bad idea and I'll correct myself.
It's something I would be interesting in seeing myself.


Also, I don't believe using CoD as an example holds any water.
I can't seem to find anything without the past 3 years but here's a source from 2012.
"40m monthly users accross all CoD games, 20m alone in MW3."
http://mp1st.com/201...e/#.VeuCVPlVhBc


Also, for a more current game, Battlefield 4. Here's a screenshot of the current population at the time of this post.

http://bf4stats.com/

I might be tempted to believe B4 has 3 to 4 times as many active players than MWO on a single platform but definitely not when all platforms are added up.
I can't even imagine what kind of population CoD gets.

[Mystere]

[Kira Onime]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

Another thing, the "meta", IMO is mostly also a problem with clan mechs, sure IS mechs also have meta builds, but I don't think they are as powerful as the clan meta builds, as such we would somewhat get away from meta gaming as excluding clan tech would make more IS builds viable.

You'd only create an IS specific meta.
Meta will not go away. Players will find what works best and use it until something better comes along and surpasses it.
This is not something specific to clans or IS.

[Alan Davion]

Kira_Onime, on 05 September 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

Please quote me where I say it's a bad idea and I'll correct myself.
It's something I would be interesting in seeing myself.


Also, I don't believe using CoD as an example holds any water.
I can't seem to find anything without the past 3 years but here's a source from 2012.
"40m monthly users accross all CoD games, 20m alone in MW3."
http://mp1st.com/201...e/#.VeuCVPlVhBc


Also, for a more current game, Battlefield 4. Here's a screenshot of the current population at the time of this post.

http://bf4stats.com/

I might be tempted to believe B4 has 3 to 4 times as many active players than MWO on a single platform but definitely not when all platforms are added up.
I can't even imagine what kind of population CoD gets.

I never said that you thought it was a bad idea, I was just asking if you thought the game really had too many game modes, and offering my opinion that the game had comparably few game modes in light of some other games I've played.

If I made it sound like you thought it was a bad idea, that was certainly not my intent. I can only blame the textual medium for that.

[Yellonet]

Kira_Onime, on 05 September 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

You'd only create an IS specific meta.
Meta will not go away. Players will find what works best and use it until something better comes along and surpasses it.
This is not something specific to clans or IS.

Naturally there will always be builds that are better than other builds, but within IS only I think the differences will not be so big as to make nearly all other builds unusable. More builds more fun.

[Kira Onime]

Alan Davion, on 05 September 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

I never said that you thought it was a bad idea, I was just asking if you thought the game really had too many game modes, and offering my opinion that the game had comparably few game modes in light of some other games I've played.

If I made it sound like you thought it was a bad idea, that was certainly not my intent. I can only blame the textual medium for that.

Fair enough.


While I don't believe this game has too many or to few games modes, I do believe this game has too many "baskets" to pick from when creating a game.
Just for solo queue, a bit of an extreme scenario I'll concede, you can have up to 9 different "baskets".
NA-skirmish
NA-conquest
NA-assault
and repeat for EU and OCE.

For such a small community, this is allot and made even worse in group queues.
And this is not even considering the CW population that only takes people away from this.


I'm all for more options, if the population can afford it and I do not believe MWO has the population to do so otherwise there wouldn't be talk about reducing groups down to 4.

[GreyNovember]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Naturally there will always be builds that are better than other builds, but within IS only I think the differences will not be so big as to make nearly all other builds unusable. More builds more fun.

Okay.

So if Clans were no longer a thing, are you saying that the MPL Thunderbolt or the Dragon 1N would cease to be meta? What about the 6LL Stalker?

You seem to have just shifted the balance of power to these mechs specifically. I could argue you narrowed down the available builds, because clans no longer exist.

[Kira Onime]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Naturally there will always be builds that are better than other builds, but within IS only I think the differences will not be so big as to make nearly all other builds unusable. More builds more fun.

Pure speculation and "fun" is very subjective.

[Yellonet]

GreyNovember, on 05 September 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

Okay.

So if Clans were no longer a thing, are you saying that the MPL Thunderbolt or the Dragon 1N would cease to be meta? What about the 6LL Stalker?

You seem to have just shifted the balance of power to these mechs specifically. I could argue you narrowed down the available builds, because clans no longer exist.

Sure they would be good, but the difference to the next best would be smaller than it is now.

[Yellonet]

Kira_Onime, on 05 September 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

Pure speculation and "fun" is very subjective.

Maybe, but if more builds wasn't more fun, people wouldn't complain about meta. Everyone would use meta builds and be fine with that. We have a game in which a central part is to build/modify your mechs, if only a few builds are viable, is that fun?

[GreyNovember]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Sure they would be good, but the difference to the next best would be smaller than it is now.

Would it?

By removing all the clan mechs, you also remove the suboptimal mechs. You didn't change the game mechanics at all, hence none of the IS mechs alter their loadouts.

Things like the Adder, Nova, and Summoner no longer exist to diversify builds. How does that decrease the difference to the next best mech then?

[Alan Davion]

GreyNovember, on 05 September 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Would it?

By removing all the clan mechs, you also remove the suboptimal mechs. You didn't change the game mechanics at all, hence none of the IS mechs alter their loadouts.

Things like the Adder, Nova, and Summoner no longer exist to diversify builds. How does that decrease the difference to the next best mech then?

I think the point is to make it so mechs have more diverse builds in their own tech level.

There's a big gap between say, a single Gauss Atlas and a Dual Gauss Dire Wolf, by making IS only and Clan only filters, you make people have to come up with more builds to fight against similar chassis'... At least hopefully anyway.