84 replies to this topic

[bad arcade kitty]

Yokaiko, on 06 September 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

So only the meta build for an -A counts, against a mech that is generally pretty bad?

i wonder can you even read, leaving aside bother to check smurfy

i posted in this thread, i posted in that cw thread which you read too, i post it third time, now with bold

every ice ferret version except prime has a ct energy hardpoint
ifr-a, ifr-b, ifr-c, ifr-d all have the ct energy
the only version which doesn't have it it's ifr-prime

[Yokaiko]

bad arcade kitty, on 06 September 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

i wonder can you even read, leaving aside bother to check smurfy

i posted in this thread, i posted in that cw thread which you read too, i post it third time, now with bold

every ice ferret version except prime has a ct energy hardpoint
ifr-a, ifr-b, ifr-c, ifr-d all have the ct energy
the only version which doesn't have it it's ifr-prime

Doesn't change that its easy to hit, and mounts 85% of its weapons in its arms. Firestarter even the niche build I just posted with a 39 point alpha is a better mech.

You are confusing me with someone else by the way, I know how many hardpoints the Fart has, and I also have THREE Firestarter variants that hit harder than a 5 er-mlas Fart.

Edited by Yokaiko, 06 September 2015 - 11:47 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Get the Blackjack Arrow, then you'll see how bad a 45 tonner can really be.

[Yokaiko]

Ace Selin, on 06 September 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

Get the Blackjack Arrow, then you'll see how bad a 45 tonner can really be.

The one with the AC2 quirks


Yeah so that mech is 2 AC2s and I think two mlas.........lightening can strike anywhere, can you imagine the uptime I had that game.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 06 September 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

Can we fix the hitboxes on the scrow too? You can shoot a scrow in CT from front or rear and it hits the arms. A lot of torso damage goes to their arms.

The arm hitboxes are larger than you think. The Hand Actuators also assist in this.

[The Great Unwashed]

I'm running shadowcats at the moment, 2 large pulses + ECM. Yes, they run hot and yes, sometimes you get 600-700 damage games. I do not think the CT is very large, getting cored out on all sides more or less equally. Sure I'm disappointed with it as I can no longer run my MW4 setup with 3ERLL or 2LBX10/ERLL... but that's passed.

Is it a sub-par mech? Interesting question. I think that the Shadowcat (and the Summoner) are actually good mechs as they work slightly better than IS mechs with the clan tech and are not as clearly OP as the other clanners. Unfortunately the other clan mechs are so much better because of the overly strong clan medium laser that they can boat. The Shadowcat just can't take many and that is that. MASC/6JJs is also not really needed and not being able to take it off precludes several builds that could turn the Shadowcat from a sub-par to an on-par mech. Still not very good but better compared to its near IS cousins. You'd need to be creative in the mechlab to make it work and THAT is what makes it a good, fun mech. After unlocking MASC and JJs, that is.

But "fixing" the shadowcat and keeping other mechs run a dozen energy hardpoints is not a good idea. But we needed a TBR with high energy hardpoints and apparently the SCR needed hands with 6 mediums. Oh, you can add the Firestarter to that list as well because 8E slots is "a good idea".

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 07 September 2015 - 12:33 AM.

[Kmieciu]

When it comes to clan mechs, there is only one valid question:
Can it boat ERML?
If you can boat ERMLs, even a bad mech can do great. Like the Nova or Ice Fridge. Or even the "damage sponge" Executioner.

Shadow Cat has the comparable firepower to a Kit Fox:

Kit Fox can do UAC5+3xERML+ECM Shadow Cat can't.
Kit Fox can do LPL+2xERML+ECM 15DHS vs LPL+2xERML+ECM 17DHS on a Shadow Cat.
Kit Fox can do 2xLPL + 11 DHS vs LPL+2xERML+ECM 13DHS on a Shadow Cat.

Both have the same speed. Simply put, Shadow Cat is 2 tonnes better than a Kit Fox.

Edited by Kmieciu, 07 September 2015 - 12:44 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

The Great Unwashed, on 07 September 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:

Unfortunately the other clan mechs are so much better because of the overly strong clan medium laser that they can boat.

...

But "fixing" the shadowcat and keeping other mechs run a dozen energy hardpoints is not a good idea. But we needed a TBR with high energy hardpoints and apparently the SCR needed hands with 6 mediums.

implying the most meta stormcrows are not built on scr-c omnipods with scr-prime head

6 lasers in an arm which is so easy to lose and which has negative quirks? no thanks

[Duke Nedo]

Kmieciu, on 07 September 2015 - 12:44 AM, said:

...
Both have the same speed. Simply put, Shadow Cat is 2 tonnes better than a Kit Fox.

Aye, and + some more armor, higher placed hardpoints and masc (for what it's worth, perhaps not worth the weight but the agility helps a little sometimes).

[Vellron2005]

Lightfoot, on 05 September 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

The Shadow Cat has very few hardpoints for a medium and a very low payload and it's MASC is far below canon functionality so why was it made so frail? MASC is not the damage avoidence mechanic that it was touted to be and perhaps feared that it would be.

Well I have to say that MASC is a great damage avoidance mechanic.. it allows my slow Executioner to avoid missles like crazy, and peek over corners in a flash..

It would be a much worse mech without it..

I don't have a Shadow Cat, so I can't really judge, but it seems fine to me, and the slippery buggers are not that easy to kill, at lease no easier than other mechs of that size...

And the gauss riffles they carry are just super annoying, I can never see what's shooting at me.. so.. yeah..

Don't really get why you would call it a bad mech that needs fixing..

[bad arcade kitty]

Duke Nedo, on 07 September 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

Aye, and + some more armor, higher placed hardpoints and masc (for what it's worth, perhaps not worth the weight but the agility helps a little sometimes).

and also kit fox carries nearly half of its weight as weapons/additional equipment so being 2 tonnes better than kit fox isn't bad for a 45 tonner

[Paigan]

After several hundred SHC games (some exceptionally good, many bad, but mostly due to my mistakes) I can say:

If you want a "OMG maxed out weapon tonnage" mech, then OF COURSE the SHC sucks.

However, if you play it as what it is (ECM, huge jumprange/height, super-agility via MASC, high hardpoints), e.g. as a hit&run sniper, then it CAN be awesome, even borderline OP.

It's the same as saying "DWF sucks because it can't scout well" or saying "ACH sucks because it can't carry 2 Gauss".
You have to judge a Mech based on what it is designed to be, not based on what YOU would want to cram into it.
All the flaming and whining that SHC can't carry enough weapons or that other mechs do everything better is just idiotic, sorry.
I don't care how much better you are in the game than me. Reason counts. Don't whine about a DWF being a bad scout.
In the role the SHC has, NO other mech is better.
If you don't like that role, take another mech, no problem.


That being said, It could maybe use another E hardpoint. And/or some LTs pods that REALLY offer an alternative to the ECM.
Like said 4th hardpoint (plus a M or B.) or considerable quirks.
The current Prime, A and P LTs are all ridiculous jokes compared to ECM + bonus armor + bonus structure

Edited by Paigan, 07 September 2015 - 04:52 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Paigan, on 07 September 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

Like said 4th hardpoint (plus a M or B.) or considerable quirks.

Clan mechs don't get considerable quirks, no matter how bad they are.

[Lily from animove]

Kmieciu, on 07 September 2015 - 12:44 AM, said:

When it comes to clan mechs, there is only one valid question:
Can it boat ERML?
If you can boat ERMLs, even a bad mech can do great. Like the Nova or Ice Fridge. Or even the "damage sponge" Executioner.

Shadow Cat has the comparable firepower to a Kit Fox:

Kit Fox can do UAC5+3xERML+ECM Shadow Cat can't.
Kit Fox can do LPL+2xERML+ECM 15DHS vs LPL+2xERML+ECM 17DHS on a Shadow Cat.
Kit Fox can do 2xLPL + 11 DHS vs LPL+2xERML+ECM 13DHS on a Shadow Cat.

Both have the same speed. Simply put, Shadow Cat is 2 tonnes better than a Kit Fox.

NVA and IFR can only be good if your Opponents is either full of fools or ignoring them. otherwise they are the most easy to kill or disarm mechs.

[bad arcade kitty]

Paigan, on 07 September 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

In the role the SHC has, NO other mech is better.

a ecm sniper? hellbringer is better

Quote

That being said, It could maybe use another E hardpoint. And/or some LTs pods that REALLY offer an alternative to the ECM.
Like said 4th hardpoint (plus a M or B.) or considerable quirks.

you just said it's fine and immediately ask for buffs :3

Kmieciu, on 07 September 2015 - 12:44 AM, said:

Kit Fox can do UAC5+3xERML+ECM Shadow Cat can't.

uac-10 + 2 ml on shc is better

kfx can take uac-10 only with some serious sacrifices...

[Paigan]

Yokaiko, on 07 September 2015 - 04:52 AM, said:

Clan mechs don't get considerable quirks, no matter how bad they are.

ECM + 6 bonus armor + 11 bonus structure already IS a considerably quirked pod.

Adder can get -15% PPC heat, also considerable.

Or take the WHK-C LA quirks. Considrable.

Also, most of the micro-quirks were supposed to be only a first step and get incrementally increased.
There was some kind of personal problem at PGI that prevented that and then it got deprecated by the incoming balance overhaul.

Long story short: There ARE (and would be) considerable clan quirks.

Edited by Paigan, 07 September 2015 - 05:08 AM.

[Paigan]

bad arcade kitty, on 07 September 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

a ecm sniper? hellbringer is better

you just said it's fine and immediately ask for buffs :3

Sorry Kitty, but you have a serious problem in your brain.

I said:

Paigan, on 07 September 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

ECM, huge jumprange/height, super-agility via MASC, high hardpoints

Where does a HBR have that?
Is it too much to ask to read one whole sentence?

Paigan, on 07 September 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

That being said, It could maybe use another E hardpoint. And/or some LTs pods that REALLY offer an alternative to the ECM.

I wrote "that being said". Meaning the first part was a general statement, the second part handles a detail and is some what relativized / optional.
I also wrote "COULD" and not "OMG it needs it badly".

Really, if you want to discuss, try to use your brain a little more, otherwise it's just insulting for everyone.
For the guy you misquote and for yourself.

[bad arcade kitty]

Paigan, on 07 September 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

Where does a HBR have that?
Is it too much to ask to read one whole sentence?

what of those is a role? it's characteristics

hellbringer is a better ecm sniper, can boat more weapon, harder to kill, have high hardpoints too
if you mean poptarts, even nova is a better poptart
shadowcat lacks heat sinks comparing to heavier mechs and also lacks durability to be the best sniper, ecm or poptart

well he is the best ecm poptart lol, but it's pretty niche

[Kmieciu]

bad arcade kitty, on 07 September 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

well he is the best ecm poptart lol, but it's pretty niche

ECM or not, IS LPL shoots them effortlessly from the sky :-)

[Yokaiko]

Paigan, on 07 September 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

ECM + 6 bonus armor + 11 bonus structure already IS a considerably quirked pod.

Adder can get -15% PPC heat, also considerable.

Or take the WHK-C LA quirks. Considrable.

Also, most of the micro-quirks were supposed to be only a first step and get incrementally increased.
There was some kind of personal problem at PGI that prevented that and then it got deprecated by the incoming balance overhaul.

Long story short: There ARE (and would be) considerable clan quirks.

yeah, so why does every mech you listed still suck?

DRG-1N considerable quirks
GI Considerable quirks
TDR-5SS considerable quirks
Huggin considerable quirks

There is nothing even in the ball park on the clan side.

Edited by Yokaiko, 07 September 2015 - 05:21 AM.