205 replies to this topic

[Queen of England]

I guess I'm still not getting it. If the pts was for infotech testing, what were all the bizarre accell/decell/structure quirks in there for? If the problem with weapon quirks was that they were too large, surely 80% acceleration or +350 structure quirks aren't reasonable.

[bad arcade kitty]

RocketDog, on 13 September 2015 - 10:36 PM, said:

Quirks up to 10 or 20% are fine and help differentiate the mechs (which you need if you want us to buy new content).

Quirks of 50%+ are not fine.

Why is this so hard to understand?

and

that includes mobility quirks too! not only weapon quriks are bad when they are too high

[XX Sulla XX]

Sean Lang, on 13 September 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

This is incorrect. As I mentioned in the video, I stated you had to whipe clean current weapon quirks to get a better understanding. Also I mentioned that adding small weapon quirks here and there could help distinguish a variant from one another and chassis v chassis. But even then, you would not see massive 20-50% quirks like how you do with weapon quirks, but small ones instead. It's still on the table, but for the first iteration, clean slate is needed.

Small weapons quirks without a balance to top Clan weapons are not going to work. At least not for Clan vs IS. Now if it is in relation to IS only balance sure they would balance between IS mechs fine.

Tier 1 mechs from metamechs.com analysis in relation to balance.

Tier 1 Clan High - All weapons used.
gauss
LPL
ER Medium

Clan Tier One Low - All weapons used.
gauss
LPL
ER Medium
Er Small (Only Arctic Cheata)



Tier 1 IS Low - All weapons used. (There are no Tier 1 High IS mechs.
Large Laser - Stalker 4N -LARGE LASER RANGE: 5.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 5.00 % LARGE LASER COOLDOWN: 7.50 % ENERGY COOLDOWN: 7.50 % LARGE LASER HEAT GENERATION: -7.50 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -7.50 % MISSILE COOLDOWN: 15.00 %

Large laser Wolverine 6K (also has one medium) LARGE LASER RANGE: 12.50 % ENERGY RANGE: 12.50 % ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 % LARGE LASER HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 % LASER DURATION: -15.00 %

[Gas Guzzler]

Honestly, first concern when I saw the new quirks was "How is my shiny new Black Knight going to function with no help in the heat generation department??"

All in all this was very informative, it is a shame that the primary sentiment wasn't explicitly stated at the beginning, they could have avoided A LOT of negativity.

[Kiiyor]

Stefka Kerensky, on 13 September 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

What we need to know if really all weapon quirks (such as cooldown/heat/range) will really be removed in the new system, and without a new weapon rebalance.

[Bishop Steiner]

Huh, go figure. Pretty much as I said. Of course., none of the chicken littles will actually watch the video, the few that do will just come up with new reasons to QQ>

Still, thanks for the video Sean, and for the post, Hans.

Kiiyor, on 13 September 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

Hit the bait faster than a bluefin on a squid lure.

[XX Sulla XX]

Kiiyor, on 13 September 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

Wonder why you would think the other things would fill the gap. Many mechs have huge quirks now but the basic IS vs Clan balance is still broken in a few places.

[STEF_]

Kiiyor, on 13 September 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

Thanks for this, Kiiyor!

Good communication is important.
It would have been far better if Russ stated that in TownHall, to make things clear.

Or, Paul here: http://mwomercs.com/...alance-and-pts/

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 13 September 2015 - 10:48 PM.

[Pjwned]

This basically shows that a ton of players had a huge shitfit freakout for not much of a real reason.

I know PGI's track record with this sort of thing, but holy god damn **** the level of noise and doomsaying from the very first phase of the PTS despite PGI making it pretty clear that it was a work in progress and all that...it was just not warranted at all.

Should PGI have made it more clear that the PTS was not even an attempt at clans vs IS balance and such? Yes, but it's not like they didn't make it clear at all; they just needed to make it more clear about what to expect, because apparently people on the forums will go apeshit otherwise.

Did players need to freak out as much as they did over the last couple days or so? No, not at all. There may come a time later when that is warranted if PGI tries to push out something that's crap (despite Russ making it clear that he wants both players and PGI to be happy with the results) but going into a shitflinging frenzy at the very first stage of public testing?

People need to relax a little bit.

[Bishop Steiner]

XX Sulla XX, on 13 September 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

Wonder why you would think the other things would fill the gap. Many mechs have huge quirks now but the basic IS vs Clan balance is still broken in a few places.

Can't remotely fix weapon quirks and balance wen you have those insane and wildly disparate quirks in place. Gotta retun them to baseline, then tweak.

Like they should have done in the beginning.....before Quirkening became the new addiction

Pjwned, on 13 September 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

This basically shows that a ton of players had a huge shitfit freakout for not much of a real reason.

I know PGI's track record with this sort of thing, but holy god damn **** the level of noise and doomsaying from the very first phase of the PTS despite PGI making it pretty clear that it was a work in progress and all that...it was just not warranted at all.

Should PGI have made it more clear that the PTS was not even an attempt at clans vs IS balance and such? Yes, but it's not like they didn't make it clear at all; they just needed to make it more clear about what to expect, because apparently people on the forums will go apeshit otherwise.

Did players need to freak out as much as they did over the last couple days or so? No, not at all. There may come a time later when that is warranted if PGI tries to push out something that's crap (despite Russ making it clear that he wants both players and PGI to be happy with the results) but going into a shitflinging frenzy at the very first stage of public testing?

People need to relax a little bit.

yet those same folk are the ones largely ignoring the video and liking all the people who are still QQing about the video, lol.

But since they are the same people who have complained about EVERYTHING for 3 years? Why change now?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 September 2015 - 10:50 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 September 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

Huh, go figure. Pretty much as I said. Of course., none of the chicken littles will actually watch the video, the few that do will just come up with new reasons to QQ>

Still, thanks for the video Sean, and for the post, Hans.

I just wish people would be able to exercise some patience. All these kneejerk reactions achieve exactly nothing, and people are treating the whole thing like it's going live tomorrow - whereas if you look at Russ' twitter:

He doesn't seem in a particular hurry to push anything through.

If anything, this appears to be a failure in communication more than anything (it would be nice to get info from the forums rather than Twitter - but i've made my peace with that) despite Paul's exhaustive command post about it all.

There needed to be more information from the get go - especially regarding the methodology of test - but we aren't helping things on the forums by rioting either.

[mike29tw]

Pjwned, on 13 September 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

This basically shows that a ton of players had a huge shitfit freakout for not much of a real reason.

I know PGI's track record with this sort of thing, but holy god damn **** the level of noise and doomsaying from the very first phase of the PTS despite PGI making it pretty clear that it was a work in progress and all that...it was just not warranted at all.

Should PGI have made it more clear that the PTS was not even an attempt at clans vs IS balance and such? Yes, but it's not like they didn't make it clear at all; they just needed to make it more clear about what to expect, because apparently people on the forums will go apeshit otherwise.

Did players need to freak out as much as they did over the last couple days or so? No, not at all. There may come a time later when that is warranted if PGI tries to push out something that's crap (despite Russ making it clear that he wants both players and PGI to be happy with the results) but going into a shitflinging frenzy at the very first stage of public testing?

People need to relax a little bit.

I know right? People freaking out in response to the lack of communication over confusing PTS changes? It's not like you can see that coming a mile away!! There's no reason to freak out at all!!

[627]

first I have to say I couldn't test because I found no match. But the idea of stripping all weapon quirks is a good one. It was a good idea at start but it got out of hand.

If you take a mech that was generally classified as scrap and buff it to the best and most used heavy mech for the IS there's something wrong.

I don't agree with everything in the video, but one of the last sentences was really important. People who bought mechs with hard money because of the quirks and are now upset - that alone should be enough to show the system is flawed.

And I have a Huggin in my bay that I bought after the quirkening and I totally agree that this whole quirk system need a reboot.

[Tennex]

PGI did a bad job. the sensor changes and the quirk changes shoudl have never been combined. The best way to do it would have been to spoon feed the players one of the 2 changes at a time.

It was also presented really badly, if PGI wants players to accept changes they've been working hard on. The presentation has to be good enough. The PTS had the bug that gave friendly units red markers all the while mkaing the new sensors change even more confusing. Plus all of the values for quriks were out of wack especially the turn range quirks.

Either way, we found out that InfoTech is bust

Edited by Tennex, 13 September 2015 - 11:02 PM.

[SaltBeef]

Infotech wise the Mackie was King in the TRO it said it had the most advanced sensors. If PVE ever releases a back in time Mackie mission this should reflect.

[Pjwned]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 September 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

yet those same folk are the ones largely ignoring the video and liking all the people who are still QQing about the video, lol.

But since they are the same people who have complained about EVERYTHING for 3 years? Why change now?

It's not like I don't have my share of grievances with PGI's rather slow progress on the game and various bad/unpopular decisions over time, but I see PGI has also been working on various things (presumably to work towards a viable Steam release, which is good) and on top of that I just can't see how it's warranted to throw a conniption fit IMMEDIATELY at the very first stage of public testing when it was made reasonably clear that there are errors, it's a work in progress, etc etc.

Edited by Pjwned, 13 September 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[Bracchus]

All this have shown that the biggest problem is still the fact that PGI don't have a good community go between that can talk to us that frequent the forum. This enormous **** storm could so easily been avoided if they had had someone here to explain the moment they saw the forum explode. PGI must get better at communication, why don't they hire someone for this?

[Jungle Rhino]

So would anybody care to paraphrase this video for those of us who have better things to do with 40mins of their lives. Anybody else with children will understand that 40mins is pretty much an entire days worth of free time...

PGI released the PTS and asked for feedback. Feedback was given - you can't blame the knee-jerkers they are doing as instructed

[Vlad Ward]

Jungle Rhino, on 13 September 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

So would anybody care to paraphrase this video for those of us who have better things to do with 40mins of their lives

Leave Brittney Alone.

Plus a few dozen things that would've been better conveyed to the Community at the Town Hall all of a couple days ago.

[Bloody]

I am even less impressed now with PGI now than if they completely ****** up and said OPPS WE LOADED THE WRONG PTS.

No, They did it deliberately without telling the testers what they were suppose to be testing AND they did it without actually placing a control system in place, IE you tell the testers Hey guys we want to you test this quirks and we are using just THESE mechs which are identical to each other, ie 1 heavy , 1 light, 1 medium and 1 assault, please give us your results on what the testing is, OK now we are bringing down the servers and now changin the heavy mech etc

And that is how you do the testing.. WTF is this oh lets throw away all the weapon quirks and make it impossible to give a reasonable test!! What kinda of ****** thought this was a good idea?