717 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

For rounding up all the threads on the new minimap. All threads will be merged with this one, any new threads will be merged as well. The threshold has been reached. Be smart and be good about your feedback, positive or negatively.

Thread's merged; Yellonet, Remover of Obstacles, Antares102, Moldur, DeiPax, Rhialto, razenWing, Genisys, Scalien, Lordhammer, Johhny Z, Poundcake, Bishop Steiner,

Andi Nagasia, on 21 June 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

Twiter said:

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 10m10 minutes ago

Then in the coming month/s we will create a new "zoom out" button so people can look at the full map when needed.

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 9m9 minutes ago

We failed to find the right spot default zoom level before going live, I accept that responsibility but we hope to hotfix later this week.

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 8m8 minutes ago

After the hotfix I think everyone will be able to better understand and accept the new direction is positive.

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 51s52 seconds ago

The new Default zoom level I think will go back to the same map rotation and torso indicators as before, all should be verified soon.

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 1m1 minute ago

Official post I hope today but no later than tomorrow sometime.

Everything you Need to Know at this time,
I will Update this as Russ Tweets more Info,

(Derek if you See this Please Pin it so we can Avoid MiniMap Clutter, Thanks)
Edit- Info Added

Edited by Procurator Derek, 21 June 2016 - 04:02 PM.

[razenWing]

like... haha happy April Fools?

https://static.mwome...d238a48f31d.png

I am not even mad about the direction.

But like... what you see is 1 mech. What happen when you add 22 other diamonds and letters all cramped in less than 500 meters (as it often happens)?

So... like... some maps are bigger and some smaller... and so that minimap... changes size based on playing field?

Don't tell me that it "might" get better in August. This is one "feature" that shouldn't even be implemented. Like wtf, can we beta test these things and give you feedback first? PGI I appreciate you guys for listening to us on like Oxide nerf and stuff... but like... has ANYONE ever complain about comm and minimap?

Not to mention that it's not even... completed...

(the fact that you acknowledge that things will be improved in August shows that you know this feature is CRAP the way it is right now... so why would you make us play crap for 2 months for no reason?)

(Also, you do understand that radar is suppose to coincide with the minimap right? That's why it's the "MINI"map, and not the... MAP. And if that "MINI" will somehow conflict with your command wheel functionality, then perhaps you need to rethink your command wheel implementation, not break another thing to make it work.)

Unless this is like a funny joke. Ahahahahaha, kudos... very funny.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Saddly, no. It is not a joke.

I don't mind zooming the map out, but that looks like it will be useless most of the time.

[Lostdragon]

I don't like it either, I wish it would get pulled before the patch but it is probably too late now.

[Ace Selin]

Its shite, they should have simply left the old minimap.

[Hit the Deck]

I do wish that the old minimap could be zoomed out but that one looks too far out. Hopefully they will implement adjustable zoom since Russ has agreed on it.

[EgoSlayer]

Take a look at the Phoenix Hawk cockpit preview video at about the :48 second mark where it shows the new mini-map in action.
http://mwomercs.com/...se-3-days-left/

The "self" triangle is taking about about 1/6th of the grid space on Frozen city. It's going to be useless once there are >6 mechs in the same grid. At least on frozen city's scale.

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 19 June 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

Hopefully they will implement adjustable zoom since Russ has agreed on it.

Probably gonna take many months--since Russ agreed to it.

[627]

By the way, this makes the seismic sensor totally useless. You can maybe tell that there is a mech *somewhere* around you but that is all.

[Burke IV]

Ace Selin, on 19 June 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Its shite, they should have simply left the old minimap.

Summed it up perfectly. I have to wonder who, if anybody playtests for PGI.

[Zolaz]

Russ says he knows what is best and that you live on an island.

[Xetelian]

Currently I can't imagine this is a step forward...I heard he was taking some things away from us in the town hall and that he wouldn't be rolling it back no matter what we do...

[Alistair Winter]

Meh. I don't see why people are acting all crazy.

Russ said they would work on a zoom feature next, and this zoom feature will probably be implemented July or August. Yeah, they could have delayed releasing the new minimap, but remember that the new minimap is connected with the new command wheel. (And apparently, both these things are connected with the upcoming Infotech stuff, but I'll take that with a grain of salt)

Minimap will be hard to read for a month, but the tradeoff will probably be better communication and teamwork in the solo queue. And then we get a zoom feature later. Mind you, the ability to zoom in and out on the minimap is something people have been requesting since 2012, on account of previous MW games having this feature. And now we're getting it. Which is a good thing.

I think the people are missing the forest for the trees on this one.

[smokytehbear]

Alistair Winter, on 19 June 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

I think the people are missing the forest for the trees on this one.

Nah, I think you're looking at an empty glass and imagining it half full.

What do we gain from this? Nothing. We lost, on the other hand, the minimap. The only way pugs were really able to effectively coordinate since so few people use mics and don't have TS and such.

The idea that pugs will suddenly start using microphones because it's harder to play silent is a little wishful in my opinion. I think the more likely result will be people just sucking a whole lot more and pre-made teams steamrolling even harder than they already do.

[razenWing]

Alistair Winter, on 19 June 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Meh. I don't see why people are acting all crazy.

Russ said they would work on a zoom feature next, and this zoom feature will probably be implemented July or August. Yeah, they could have delayed releasing the new minimap, but remember that the new minimap is connected with the new command wheel. (And apparently, both these things are connected with the upcoming Infotech stuff, but I'll take that with a grain of salt)

Minimap will be hard to read for a month, but the tradeoff will probably be better communication and teamwork in the solo queue. And then we get a zoom feature later. Mind you, the ability to zoom in and out on the minimap is something people have been requesting since 2012, on account of previous MW games having this feature. And now we're getting it. Which is a good thing.

I think the people are missing the forest for the trees on this one.

You have good points, except...
When did previous MW games EVER had zoom in-out minimap?

You had passive vs active radar, which was 400m vs 1km range for enemy targetting trade.

(Which for some reason, is not in this game)

Other than that... when did we ever have zoomable minimap?

[Lily from animove]

this mehc is perfect to widen the gap between casuals, newbies and the better palyers, because this map will be harder to read and give newbies acrap time to realise whats up compared to better players. I can not approve this.

the current minimap is totally fine the way it is.

Zoomign adds more micromanagement, I am sure the newbies and casuals will totally love that ontop of all the other things they can't already properly handle.

mechwarrior wa snever s simplified shooter, but adding this kind of artifical enhanced but not needed complexity is really not needed.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 June 2016 - 12:17 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

smokytehbear, on 20 June 2016 - 12:12 AM, said:

Nah, I think you're looking at an empty glass and imagining it half full.
What do we gain from this? Nothing. We lost, on the other hand, the minimap. The only way pugs were really able to effectively coordinate since so few people use mics and don't have TS and such.
The idea that pugs will suddenly start using microphones because it's harder to play silent is a little wishful in my opinion. I think the more likely result will be people just sucking a whole lot more and pre-made teams steamrolling even harder than they already do.

See, this is why it's so hard to discuss with people on the forum. We never get anywhere if we pretend the world is black and white. It's pointless to say that we gained nothing.

• We gained the ability to see the whole map all the time, which is a big deal because pugs looking at the minimap will only ever see their immediate surroundings (and miss their assault lance getting swarmed by light mechs on the other side of the map, for example)
  
• We gained the ability to identify any blip on the radar at a glance. Doritos are replaced by markers for lights, mediums, heavies, assaults or multiple targets in close proximity.
  
• We gained the ability to discern where friendly mechs are located when they ask for help, spot enemies, etc.
  
• We gained a command wheel that can be connected to both the mini-map and the new skill trees, and this is indeed what PGI is planning.
  
• We got additional abilities for the company and lance commanders, beyond what we had before. People can now request airstrikes and uavs, for example.

And people who don't think command wheels are useful need to play more FPS games and see how widely they are used in other games. Especially niche games with players from all over the world, where americans are playing on the same teams as russians and germans and italians.

razenWing, on 20 June 2016 - 12:12 AM, said:

You have good points, except...
When did previous MW games EVER had zoom in-out minimap?
You had passive vs active radar, which was 400m vs 1km range for enemy targetting trade.
(Which for some reason, is not in this game)
Other than that... when did we ever have zoomable minimap?

Mechwarrior 3, unless my memory fails me. But maybe I'm confusing the ability to switch between active and passive radar with the ability to enlarge or shrink the minimap.

[PhoenixFire55]

The only thing I'm worried about is if I'll be able to turn everything comming from command wheel off, because the last thing I want in a match is a bunch of lololurmer babyseals spamming help button all over the place when big bad Oxide comes to wreck their face.

That being said, nobody asked for a minimap changes, but I guess we all are on an Island^TM.

Minimally Viable Product^TM.

[Burke IV]

Alistair Winter, on 20 June 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

• We gained the ability to see the whole map all the time, which is a big deal because pugs looking at the minimap will only ever see their immediate surroundings (and miss their assault lance getting swarmed by light mechs on the other side of the map, for example)
  
• We gained the ability to identify any blip on the radar at a glance. Doritos are replaced by markers for lights, mediums, heavies, assaults or multiple targets in close proximity.
  
• We gained the ability to discern where friendly mechs are located when they ask for help, spot enemies, etc.

The first 2 points i dont think should be in the game just me personally. As for asking for help pugs generally dont. If they do then they can say where they are. If somebody plays with no mic and then cant ask for help, tough.

[Lily from animove]

Alistair Winter, on 20 June 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

See, this is why it's so hard to discuss with people on the forum. We never get anywhere if we pretend the world is black and white. It's pointless to say that we gained nothing.

• We gained the ability to see the whole map all the time, which is a big deal because pugs looking at the minimap will only ever see their immediate surroundings (and miss their assault lance getting swarmed by light mechs on the other side of the map, for example)

And you think the new full scale map will make pugs realise where the assaults are? mostlikely not. And if they get swarme don the other side of the map they realise it now and will still not change anythign at the outcome. At elats they cna see now how the little blue arrows of those assaults disappear and mourn their loss.

Alistair Winter, on 20 June 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

• We gained the ability to identify any blip on the radar at a glance. Doritos are replaced by markers for lights, mediums, heavies, assaults or multiple targets in close proximity

Oh no thats what we think, but at the moment look at many situatiosn when a team pushes together toght its already in zoomed in mode just a furry ball or red. now you really think you can identify light medium heavy and assault on a full out zoomed map? That won't happen unless the mech is quite a distance apart form the others or a lone warrior.

Alistair Winter, on 20 June 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

• We gained the ability to discern where friendly mechs are located when they ask for help, spot enemies, etc.

• We gained a command wheel that can be connected to both the mini-map and the new skill trees, and this is indeed what PGI is planning.

• We got additional abilities for the company and lance commanders, beyond what we had before. People can now request airstrikes and uavs, for example.

yes that may be good stuff, however it the heta of the battle the newbies won't ebenfit from this while the non newbies voip it out faster and more effiicent.

Alistair Winter, on 20 June 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

And people who don't think command wheels are useful need to play more FPS games and see how widely they are used in other games. Especially niche games with players from all over the world, where americans are playing on the same teams as russians and germans and italians.

So will the command wheel come with proper localisation? if not it will be as useless as commanding in a language another player doesn't understand.


I just fear that this new minimap is again just a half finished feature not being deisgned to the end and therefore will probably screw more things up than help.