339 replies to this topic

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Its just sort of insulting that they seem to be balancing it to be competitive with the Orion rather than TBR. Weak structure perks and mediocre weapon perks are really uninspiring for something with such bad hardpoint locations.

Most of the Grasshopper variants get very similar perks to the BK, yet also have JJs and much better hardpoint locations?

It's not like the chassis looks like a complete write-off, but as it is it's just uninspiring.

[Nightshade24]

MischiefSC, on 22 September 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

There is nothing wrong with people having fun driving bad robbits. The issue is that the only robbits available for the IS for the last year's are all bad.

what if I told you it isn't that the IS got no good mechs in the past few years but it is that the IS got no good pilots in the past 2 years?





That aside which is partly poking fun but also semi serious but I should mention that the IS have like what... 150+ mech variants atm while clans are around 30?

The IS are running out of mechs to bring into the game, the bad ones/ non unique / to similar to this other mech/ etc mechs are what is left. The same is going to happen to clans in 1 due to the very limited pool

I mean look at it now, all of Wave 2 was those mechs and 2/3rds of wave 1 was those mechs, That says a lot considering those 2 packs were all the clan mechs in game at that time and then resistance 3 happened where all mechs are good however some would argue to me that the exectioner and shadowcat is not good....

Origins? shows high promise, but all 4 of those mechs (do not forget) is directly derived from some of the not so best IS mechs at the momment and have inflated problems, Hunchback IIC has tunnel vision as well as 2 huge hunchies, making this thing barely an advantage to use a "clan" XL instead of an IS besides doing a few more shots before your other cored ST falls of.

Jenner IIC? bigger then normal jenner and the rest of problems are tied to comparing weapons, dps, velocity, etc more then the mech itself.

Highlander IIC? low max engine, 3 JJ max , similar hardpoints to IS one, etc

Orion?... well it can do a ST duel gauss...

Not saying these are DOA... just saying they may have problems.

[Odium]

Mycrus, on 22 September 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

Thank you for making my night, lol.

[Odium]

Nightshade24, on 23 September 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

what if I told you it isn't that the IS got no good mechs in the past few years but it is that the IS got no good pilots in the past 2 years?

Spoken like a true Clanner.

IS weapons are just bad compared to IS and people know this. Only the super quirked IS mechs that buff weapons can compete and even then it is better for clans because of diversity. When I play CW for IS it is all thunderbolts and Stalkers. Clans can use pretty much every mech and still be better.

BUT maybe the reason IS does not have the best pilots is that if you want to compete seriously in this game and are that type of person you will play clans. Maybe it just attracts those types of people.

Edited by Odium, 23 September 2015 - 02:18 AM.

[Johny Rocket]

I bought the Mauler pack for the Mauler and the Crab. I bought early because I caught the 1 day deal on the JM6 and swag.

I really had no expectations for the Black Knight, so oddly enough I am not disappointed.

I will say I am not all that put off by the low slung hardpoints. Side peek at range and will be brutal on lights that get to close.

Remember cw is the point of the Resistance mechs.

[Odium]

Nightshade24, on 23 September 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

That aside which is partly poking fun but also semi serious but I should mention that the IS have like what... 150+ mech variants atm while clans are around 30?

The IS are running out of mechs to bring into the game, the bad ones/ non unique / to similar to this other mech/ etc mechs are what is left. The same is going to happen to clans in 1 due to the very limited pool

I mean look at it now, all of Wave 2 was those mechs and 2/3rds of wave 1 was those mechs, That says a lot considering those 2 packs were all the clan mechs in game at that time and then resistance 3 happened where all mechs are good however some would argue to me that the exectioner and shadowcat is not good....

Origins? shows high promise, but all 4 of those mechs (do not forget) is directly derived from some of the not so best IS mechs at the momment and have inflated problems, Hunchback IIC has tunnel vision as well as 2 huge hunchies, making this thing barely an advantage to use a "clan" XL instead of an IS besides doing a few more shots before your other cored ST falls of.

Jenner IIC? bigger then normal jenner and the rest of problems are tied to comparing weapons, dps, velocity, etc more then the mech itself.

Highlander IIC? low max engine, 3 JJ max , similar hardpoints to IS one, etc

Orion?... well it can do a ST duel gauss...

Not saying these are DOA... just saying they may have problems.

While not a good business decision in just selling mech packs they can just buff the old ones we already have. But they don't even know how to "business decision" right as while the mauler is okay the black knight appears to be very "meh". Nothing in the pack makes me want to buy anything. Even the wolfhound, the entry mech that should make it easy to spend $20 like the stupid ACH, on paper looks horrid. A light mech with no ECM OR JJs? lame.

[Victorion]

Kristian Radoulov, on 22 September 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

All energy hardpoints, good humanoid hitboxes with an XL friendly side profile, good mobility and 75 tons of armor with internal structure buffs. Yup DOA.

Quoted for truth.

I have played my share of MMO's and F2P's at this point.

None of them, none of them, hold a candle to the drama queens that play this game.

PGI literally can't win.

Mech that follows the meta and does what people want - PGI accused of P2W.

Mech that doesn't hump the leg of whatever fad is prevelent = PGI accused of not knowing what they are doing/scam/rip off/insert various hyperbolic tantrums.

I looked at the mech and though, hmm, cool looking mech. Hard points are low, high engine cap, hit boxes look very XL friendly, yup probably going to be a good mobility brawler.

I didn't look at it and go "PGI please quirk so I can spam my *insert weapon system here* as fast as I can click my mouse without looking at my heat bar."

[JernauM]

I knew it would have disadvantageous geometry, low hard-points, and no jump jets. Was it unreasonable to hope for some meaningful quirks to compensate?

[Nightshade24]

Odium, on 23 September 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

Spoken like a true Clanner.

IS weapons are just bad compared to IS and people know this. Only the super quirked IS mechs that buff weapons can compete and even then it is better for clans because of diversity. When I play CW for IS it is all thunderbolts and Stalkers. Clans can use pretty much every mech and still be better.

BUT maybe the reason IS does not have the best pilots is that if you want to compete seriously in this game and are that type of person you will play clans. Maybe it just attracts those types of people.

I am not sure who told you math but...

how can an inner sphere weapon be bad compared to the exact same weapon of the exact same tech... inner sphere?...
For eg...


Inner sphere [x] = Inner sphere [x]
Inner sphere medium laser = inner sphere medium laser
inner sphere AC 20 = inner sphere AC 20
inner sphere flamer = inner sphere flamer.

I have no idea how inner sphere weapons are bad compared to inner sphere weapons but I guess I will just nod and carry on?

Eh, the thing is the black knight can over throw the Timberwolf in over al durability, speed, and firepower at the current momment if the CT remains big and XL friendly. Even then sacrifices can occur to make it slower but much more heat efficient with same or slightly more firepower then the timber/ ebj.

But besides that there is quite a few mechs on the IS side with and without quirks that can obsolete the clan counterpart, such as the awesome (compared to warhawk), the Hunchback 4P (compared to nova), virtually all IS light mechs (compared to most clan lights. ACH does compete with firestarter though, however I would say they are about equals with small game of trades occuring) Etc... oh and the kingcrab vs Direwolf in most dakka builds, er ppc build (minus direstar), gauss builds, and mixtures. the tripple Large pulse laser + twin gauss does really push hard against the now uncomfortable direwolfie...

Virtually any Clan mech is better then IS? Neg...

The worst mech in game is currently the mist lynx- a clan omnimech 25 tonner. one of the other on the top 5 worst mechs in game is the gargoyle- another clan omnimech... we got a few others very low down the ranks of 'meh average' like summoner... warhawk.... nova.... kitfox.... adder... etc.

IS? Virtually all IS mechs besides the latest are virtually on par with each other on a nice equilibrium of power and such between each one... with outliars such as the silly huginn, grid iron, cicada 2C, dragon 1N, Centurion D.etc... Which will be fixed next patch (thank the lord, I can buy a dragon without feeling dirty)... not saying all mechs are OP to the clans. but the spread of worst to best is very thin between the worst IS mech and best IS mech which on this line the clan timberwolf, stormcrow, etc lay in ,but the rest of the mechs fall on the deeper end of the scale for the IS and the rest are off it...

IIC's however will not have the many many problems Omnimechs will get (still want to have the raptor in game, IS light ominmech 3052 (next year), will make many IS players shut up about omnitech however I guess the clan battlemechs in the origins may do that sooner)... -shrugs-.


Also I got an excuse for why more good players play clan then IS. 2 reasons to be specifically. Even though I wasn't serious with that statement but I guess jokes are lostech in the inner sphere it seems... [tumbleweed rolls by] okay... I'll just get to the points

1) The first competetive play of Mechwarrior was in MW2, a game set in a clan perspective, many mechs are clan and the only way to play non IIC is mechs is cheats/ not in campaign. On top of that in MW4 the game had the most OP mech in game, the Executioner "Gladiator"... eh... picture it as highlander in meta day but magically having the clan tech equivilant of weapons.

2) Clan tech requires a higher skill level. No one cares if you get 800 damage in your Huginn or Dragon and some people may shrug if you get that in your thunderbolt, stalker, etc. get 800 damage+ in a stormcrow? timberwolf? ebon jaguar? or especially hellbringer? Due to the nature of clan mechs allowing multiple meta combinations instead of 1-2 between IS variants it really improves the meta game as it is easier to distinguish skill between someone coming back 5 minutes afk and taped down the shoot weapon group 1 button down.
This is not me trying to tryhard to use confirmation bias and stuff, I hate the meta but I understand it well enough to recognise it and such. Clans catter to the meta much more better then the IS. Me on the other hand? In MW4 the meta was pop tarting JJ snipers with spammmed ER large lasers / clan gauss / er ppc's/ ppc + capacitor + ECM and/or LAMS and nearly 0 armour because there is a mechanic in MW4 that prevents anything being one shotted so basically they slightly abuse it and try to be all cool MLG pop tarting with like 70 damage+ alpha strikes (in a game with no inflated armour so 50% of MW: O's... meaning 1 shot killing a Atlas if he has stock front armour)... I am that one troll who brings out an annihilator and have 4 long toms artillerying them with great skill when they are not JJ'ing and are behind cover... that or have a Long bow with 6 x Inferno SRM 4, 4 x Inferno SRM 6, and 2 flamers with max engine and reflective armour running around making things fall over due to sheerr close range firepower / kick and over heating them on the second alpha... Oh I'm so trollishly evil abusing peoples narrow meta mindsets... In MW: O I do ever build, playstyle, role, etc. Due to this I see a lot of places where 1 tech excels and the other struggles for multiple weight classes.

[JernauM]

Victorion, on 23 September 2015 - 02:41 AM, said:

I looked at the mech and though, hmm, cool looking mech. Hard points are low, high engine cap, hit boxes look very XL friendly, yup probably going to be a good mobility brawler.

It has relatively poor geometry for brawling. CT hitboxes seem to protrude from both the front and the back of the mech, reducing the effectiveness of torso twisting.

[LordBraxton]

Look at the AWS quirks

Look at BK quirks

see the difference?

No moar gold defense force plz


EDIT: Omg nightshade's 'clans take moar skill,' post is hilarous. What a moron.

Edited by LordBraxton, 23 September 2015 - 03:42 AM.

[N a p e s]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 September 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

Anyone that didn't expect low hardpoints really must not have paid any attention to the copious quantities of line art for the chassis.

Sorry, no BK ever had Shadowhawk shoulder mounted weapons.

but... but... legomechs!

[C E Dwyer]

Self righteous prig opens a troll thread, yup what I expected, but even so your wrong.

The torso weapons are as placed
The arm hard points are side and low slung hard points

The art work clearly shows a side and top mounted weapon hard points on the right arm and a low slung on the left

Old hands new they we're buying a gimped mech, when they saw the art work, and bought it for the looks,but the 3d department have gimped it more.

So yes they have the right to complain as they didn't get the advertised product.

so the long and the short of it is

Do it Like the ART work, and none will have the right to complain

[Widowmaker1981]

We knew it would have terribad hardpoint locations, just like the Thunderbolts only worse.

We knew it wouldnt have ECM, or Jumpjets to help mitigate that.

It has no intrinsic redeeming qualities compared to the Thunderbolt, and is 10 tons heavier so should be better. Therefore i was expecting Thunderbolt level quirks, because without those it was obviously junk tier.

its junk tier.

Im not THAT bothered. I bought the pack for the Mauler, which i like, and the Wolfhound. Black Knight is incidental, and will stay un basiced gathering dust until such time as the great re-quirkening makes it viable compared to thunderbolts, grasshoppers and possibly Marauders, depending how they turn out.

[Bishop Steiner]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 September 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

We knew it would have terribad hardpoint locations, just like the Thunderbolts only worse.

We knew it wouldnt have ECM, or Jumpjets to help mitigate that.

It has no intrinsic redeeming qualities compared to the Thunderbolt, and is 10 tons heavier so should be better. Therefore i was expecting Thunderbolt level quirks, because without those it was obviously junk tier.

its junk tier.

Im not THAT bothered. I bought the pack for the Mauler, which i like, and the Wolfhound. Black Knight is incidental, and will stay un basiced gathering dust until such time as the great re-quirkening makes it viable compared to thunderbolts, grasshoppers and possibly Marauders, depending how they turn out.

too many people I think have epeen memories of the MW4 Black Knight...and ignore the part where it was totally NON canon, and thus not going to be remotely similar to the very obviously advertised MWO version.

[LordBraxton]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 September 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

We knew it would have terribad hardpoint locations, just like the Thunderbolts only worse.

We knew it wouldnt have ECM, or Jumpjets to help mitigate that.

It has no intrinsic redeeming qualities compared to the Thunderbolt, and is 10 tons heavier so should be better. Therefore i was expecting Thunderbolt level quirks, because without those it was obviously junk tier.

its junk tier.

Im not THAT bothered. I bought the pack for the Mauler, which i like, and the Wolfhound. Black Knight is incidental, and will stay un basiced gathering dust until such time as the great re-quirkening makes it viable compared to thunderbolts, grasshoppers and possibly Marauders, depending how they turn out.

I bought the pack for the BK and the Crab, so Im hoping that the JJ capable crab makes it all worthwhile

after playing a few more matches this morning with the BK, I think I'll wait for the rebalance before I risk my tier anymore in this terribad mech.

The hardpoints have perhaps the worst cockpit distance in the game, and I am forced to hide behind the entire team to wait my turn to do a middling 300-400 dmg in the brawl.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 September 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

too many people I think have epeen memories of the MW4 Black Knight...and ignore the part where it was totally NON canon, and thus not going to be remotely similar to the very obviously advertised MWO version.

I think we all assumed (very foolishly) that such an obviously bad mech would get solid quirks to compensate. Personally I was assuming AWS or Thud level quirks.

[Bishop Steiner]

LordBraxton, on 23 September 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

I bought the pack for the BK and the Crab, so Im hoping that the JJ capable crab makes it all worthwhile

after playing a few more matches this morning with the BK, I think I'll wait for the rebalance before I risk my tier anymore in this terribad mech.

The hardpoints have perhaps the worst cockpit distance in the game, and I am forced to hide behind the entire team to wait my turn to do a middling 300-400 dmg in the brawl.


I think we all assumed (very foolishly) that such an obviously bad mech would get solid quirks to compensate. Personally I was assuming AWS or Thud level quirks.

number one effect I predicted for exposed Tier Stats.... people worrying too much about their Tiers and changing pay behavior based off of it.

LordBraxton, on 23 September 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

I bought the pack for the BK and the Crab, so Im hoping that the JJ capable crab makes it all worthwhile

after playing a few more matches this morning with the BK, I think I'll wait for the rebalance before I risk my tier anymore in this terribad mech.

The hardpoints have perhaps the worst cockpit distance in the game, and I am forced to hide behind the entire team to wait my turn to do a middling 300-400 dmg in the brawl.


I think we all assumed (very foolishly) that such an obviously bad mech would get solid quirks to compensate. Personally I was assuming AWS or Thud level quirks.

be silly to buff those with a total wipe and rebalance incoming.

All quirks have done is make people want welfare mech buffs..... jeez. I said it months ago and it's even more true..... people care more about the Quirks on a chassis than the actual aw stats like hitboxes and hardpoints now.

[nehebkau]

Truth: I am done buying mech packs. I pre-order in the hope that i get something nice and I end up with a poopsicle. Happens every pack that there is only 1 variant of 1 chassis that is barely above a 'Meh' rating.

really, its the hard point locations and load out possibilities that are the frustrating parts of the packages, not the quirks (which i would be fine without having any in game).

Edited by nehebkau, 23 September 2015 - 07:05 AM.

[LordBraxton]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 September 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

number one effect I predicted for exposed Tier Stats.... people worrying too much about their Tiers and changing pay behavior based off of it.


be silly to buff those with a total wipe and rebalance incoming.

All quirks have done is make people want welfare mech buffs..... jeez. I said it months ago and it's even more true..... people care more about the Quirks on a chassis than the actual aw stats like hitboxes and hardpoints now.

I agreed months ago that quirks are a poor\bandaid solution to a huge problem.

However, after seeing the PTS...

Am I waiting for a rebalance, or a *********** that shakes up the mech tiers but leaves IS just as far in the dust?

[Bishop Steiner]

LordBraxton, on 23 September 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

I agreed months ago that quirks are a poor\bandaid solution to a huge problem.

However, after seeing the PTS...

Am I waiting for a rebalance, or a *********** that shakes up the mech tiers but leaves IS just as far in the dust?

people still complaining about the PTS...it was a data gathering test, which in no way has bearing to what numbers will be in the actual rebalance, which is why we saw no weapon quirks and such a crazy spread of quirks across single chassis.

You really GOT to get over that. Don't be a buster.