47 replies to this topic

[Burktross]

The shiniest of 12 turds ain't gold.

But then again, neither is the 10 damage scrublord who gets carried on a win.
I think its fine, to be honest.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Titannium, on 04 October 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

can you read ?

im talking about COOPERATION on T5 and T1/2 levels.

The enemy team is, on average, cooperating just as much as your team is.

[LordNothing]

you should be able to move in both directions based on your performance regardless of win/loss. instead rate performance first and figure out how far and in what direction your psr moved (we will call this deltaPsr, or dP for short, stop giggling mechwarrior), negative values mean low performance. then apply a factor based on whether you win or loose to buff or nerf those points.

shiny win - dp*1.5 ----you get a serious buff to your very positive delta.
scrub win - dp*0.75 --your dp is negative, but you did make good cannon fodder, so were not gonna bust you as hard.
shiny loss - dp*0.75 --you carried your best, points are positive, but you lost so were gonna take some of those away.
scrub loss - dp*1.5 ---you loose and hard, were gonna take what you lost and make you loose more. to the underhive!

note that this also maintains a positive bias, but it is softer. no hard conditions that protect your psr when you are doing badly, or to prevent you from going up when you are doing well.

Edited by LordNothing, 04 October 2015 - 12:04 PM.

[TheNef]

OP agree completely, doing well on the the loosing team should be rewarded better than doing badly on the winning team. At the moment you can do Sweet FA on the winning team but get a plus on PSR where as the loosing teams best player can get a minus. Skill should be rewarded not getting carried, the same about damage, high damage doesn't mean you're the woman/man it should be based on the mech, loadout etc .... however for PGI this isn't what want they do ... they go for a much easier equation. Go figure ......

[Chuck Jager]

I have seen too many games with a Dwolf sniper who climbed up on some hill with funky terrain. They snipe with high alpha the whole match, but are limited to the targets by being in a safe place.

Only at the end of the match do they start racking up kills.

Playing safe in assaults and some larges can lead to great numbers and many kills. It does not lead to as many wins. I do not want these people moving up into higher tiers until they can use their strengths to influence the win, not their own score.

good play does lessen your drop in PSR in losses and increases your gain in wins. The little red arrow is just a little symbol to make people feel like pgi is helping them. Do well consistently in good mechs with mods equipped and you will advance.

[Jman5]

XX Sulla XX, on 01 October 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

Should try this.

Should say quick changes in solo and small changes from group.

I liked this modification someone created. All they would need to do then, is cut out a lot of the grind and we've got a respectable system people can be proud of.

Edited by Jman5, 04 October 2015 - 05:18 PM.

[Zoid]

I get what you're saying, but a good deal of losses are caused by people being cowards and trying to be that last man standing with a ridiculous score, even on a loss.

The system is fine now. If you do well, your PSR goes up. It goes up more on a win than a loss. The majority of my losses have either no PSR change or it goes up right now. That means it will continue to climb with wins, as it should. It should be a very gradual climb as long as you are getting better.

[Ted Wayz]

Alistair Winter, on 04 October 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

Consistently getting your team to win the match should be (and is) the highest PSR improvement.

Consistently being the guy who gets a great match score at the cost of helping the team win shouldn't (and isn't).

I get where you're coming from, it sucks to get a tiny reward when you lose a 11-12 match and you personally did more damage and got more kills than the rest of the team combined. It isn't fair. But if you increase the rewards for people with high match scores on the losing team, you're unfortunately indirectly rewarding selfish players who put their own score above their team results.

So if I spend the match rotating my ECM, countering when I am supposed to in a Raven I should get a higher score then the guy ERL sniping in the same ECM Raven? Oh wait, PSR doesn't reward team play, just winning and damage.

Oh and that ECM Raven doing all he can to get the team to win. The one with no spot assists because he is sitting in back effectively using his ECM. The one harassing lights that are knee biting his assaults. He will be lucky, very lucky, to do more than break even on a winning team. And on a losing team? Down down down.

But if I am wrong please tell me how PSR rewards team play. Because I haven't heard yet how it does.

Paul said your initial ranking is reflective of your ability to be a good team member. Not that your match ratings reflect your ability to be a good team member. Now it is all about wins and damage.

Edited by Ted Wayz, 04 October 2015 - 08:24 PM.

[Mystere]

Just as an FYI, a match score of 374 on a loss results in no PSR change.

[Mystere]

TheNef, on 04 October 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

OP agree completely, doing well on the the loosing team should be rewarded better than doing badly on the winning team. At the moment you can do Sweet FA on the winning team but get a plus on PSR where as the loosing teams best player can get a minus. Skill should be rewarded not getting carried, the same about damage, high damage doesn't mean you're the woman/man it should be based on the mech, loadout etc .... however for PGI this isn't what want they do ... they go for a much easier equation. Go figure ......

So if I spot, harass, be bait, and do everything so my team can kill the enemy and win, I should get what? How can my actions be possibly measured other than a win?

[Light-Speed]

Food for thought:

[Alistair Winter]

Ted Wayz, on 04 October 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

So if I spend the match rotating my ECM, countering when I am supposed to in a Raven I should get a higher score then the guy ERL sniping in the same ECM Raven? Oh wait, PSR doesn't reward team play, just winning and damage.
Oh and that ECM Raven doing all he can to get the team to win. The one with no spot assists because he is sitting in back effectively using his ECM. The one harassing lights that are knee biting his assaults. He will be lucky, very lucky, to do more than break even on a winning team. And on a losing team? Down down down.
But if I am wrong please tell me how PSR rewards team play. Because I haven't heard yet how it does.
Paul said your initial ranking is reflective of your ability to be a good team member. Not that your match ratings reflect your ability to be a good team member. Now it is all about wins and damage.

That's a separate argument. My point is that winning should be the biggest factor in determining rewards. Just look at all the different weekend challenges. When winning is the important criterium, the matches are fun. When damage and match scores are the most important criteria, the matches are terrible.

It's hard to come up with a good system for rewarding players who contribute a lot to the team without actually doing damage or getting the regular rewards (TAG, spotting, etc). That's why I think MWO needs an MVP system to let team members vote on guys who helped a lot and deserve extra rewards.

[Brizna]

As long as the score formula is so bad as currently NO.

[Joseph Mallan]

Alistair Winter, on 04 October 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

Consistently getting your team to win the match should be (and is) the highest PSR improvement.

Consistently being the guy who gets a great match score at the cost of helping the team win shouldn't (and isn't).

I get where you're coming from, it sucks to get a tiny reward when you lose a 11-12 match and you personally did more damage and got more kills than the rest of the team combined. It isn't fair. But if you increase the rewards for people with high match scores on the losing team, you're unfortunately indirectly rewarding selfish players who put their own score above their team results.

But you likely died, and dead men don't get to complain about PSR.

[Alistair Winter]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 October 2015 - 02:19 AM, said:

But you likely died, and dead men don't get to complain about PSR.

I guess this was a joke?

[Mystere]

Nightingale27, on 05 October 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

Food for thought:

Match score of 150? Something's bonkers.

Edit: Or is this pre-PSR?

Edited by Mystere, 05 October 2015 - 06:59 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Mystere, on 05 October 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

Match score of 150? Something's bonkers. Edit: Or is this pre-PSR?

¨

Ofc pre.

its equal current 600+

[Khobai]

Quote

I think if you want it to work it should ignore w/l completely and be based on the bonuses that come up in the middle of the player tab of the scoreboard.

This. Its almost impossible for one player to determine the outcome of a match. You should not be rewarded or penalized for things beyond your control.

W/L should have zero bearing on PSR. Only matchscore should matter.



The way PSR is now... anyone can get to tier 1 simply by playing enough matches. Because statistically theyre going to win 50% of their matches and wins have a bigger increase than losses decrease. Thats extremely dumb and counterproductive and defeats the whole purpose of PSR which is to rate players on personal skill rather than how often they play. Regardless of what paul says, just because someone plays a lot of games, doesnt mean theyre necessarily a good player.

Edited by Khobai, 05 October 2015 - 07:11 AM.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 05 October 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

This. Its almost impossible for one player to determine the outcome of a match. You should not be rewarded or penalized for things beyond your control.

W/L should have zero bearing on PSR. Only matchscore should matter.

Then propose a scoring system for this scenario:

Mystere, on 04 October 2015 - 09:28 PM, said:

So if I spot, harass, be bait, and do everything so my team can kill the enemy and win, I should get what? How can my actions be possibly measured other than a win?

[Bishop Steiner]

AjerWerklWerkl, on 04 October 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

I think getting a high match score on a loss is one of the hardest things to do, and hence should be a BIG PSR gain!

On the occasions where I am the second highest overall match score but on the losing team, I end up with no PSR change (equal sign) -- when in fact the game was really good, the teams were well matched, and I carried hard... when a player does that, they should get a BIG jump, no???

obviously not. If you didn't carry hard enough to win, then you don't belong in the LEET stratospheres of PSR.

Learn2Carry, scrub.