51 replies to this topic

[FlyingFinn]

Agreed, voting between 2 maps is the way to go. More randomness in which maps come up, less chance of cold maps to vote for.

Edited by FlyingFinn, 05 November 2015 - 02:41 AM.

[Random Carnage]

GreyNovember, on 05 November 2015 - 02:32 AM, said:

You also kind of already lessen the chances of a cold map coming up, by reducing the available slots.

Yup, I kinda said that with "You have more chance on a 4 map vote to get a cold map in the options than if you run a 2 map vote."

Surely discouraging the laser boating ( Or at least, the amount of damage per laser boat ) would be more bulletproof if cold maps were significantly rarer?

Laser boating was popular before the voting system when cold maps were already uncommon, so I don't believe it would dissuade many people from the build. Being able to manipulate the chance of a cold map though makes the build more effective over all as they can sustain fire for longer on average given that the number of cold maps being played increases.

You now have all the advantages of the build, while mitigating the primary limitations inherent with the build. You essentially take the meta, such as it is, and put it on steroids. The laser issue is due to poor critical slot design allowing so many lasers to be boated in the first place. There are options to address this, but you can't please everyone so the noise will be loud whatever they do. I don't believe that map chance probability should be the controlling factor for laser meta.

[Xoco]

While I don't know if OP is the perfect solution, I do see a lot of merit (as many other has pointed out in the thread).

This thread have my support.

[STEF_]

GreyNovember, on 05 November 2015 - 12:36 AM, said:

Honest question.

Why is this a problem?

People play what they enjoy.

That is they enjoy to suck.

Frozen only because:
1) they aren't able to watch heat
2) they aren't able to aim using ballistic
3) they CAN point and click.

Sadly PGI listens to steering wheels that suck balz and the game is going downhill from years. (Since ECM)

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Flash Frame, on 05 November 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

Except ERLLx6 stalkers that can actually function on Frozen City and Alpine because the external temp makes the weapon nearly heat neutral?

Umm...

You do realize that "cold" maps simply set your heat minimum heat to a negative number?

The first couple shots bring up to zero, and everything works like normal after that....unless you cool down below zero again.

Cold maps effectively just add some points onto the mechs heat cap.

Cold maps don't actually make you dissipate faster. (At least in any test I've ever done.)

[El Bandito]

Bonger Bob, on 05 November 2015 - 12:17 AM, said:

well we all know PGI's strengths, so now the meta has progressed to frozen map skirmish how do we all think they're going to fix it ???

I'm seeing more Tourmaline Desert than Frozen City. Heat is not what is driving people away.
It is the abundance of visual and physical obstructions that people hate.

http://mwomercs.com/...63#entry4804663

Edited by El Bandito, 05 November 2015 - 03:29 AM.

[GreyNovember]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 November 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

That is they enjoy to suck.

Frozen only because:
1) they aren't able to watch heat
2) they aren't able to aim using ballistic
3) they CAN point and click.

Sadly PGI listens to steering wheels that suck balz and the game is going downhill from years. (Since ECM)

Right. They enjoy that. In a game they like to play.

I won't bother with the derogatory terms, since that doesn't really validate anything I say.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 05 November 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

I'm seeing more Tourmaline Desert than Frozen City. Heat is not what is driving people away.
It is the abundance of visual and physical obstructions that people hate.

http://mwomercs.com/...63#entry4804663

So that's why I'll never see Terra? Because there you can see well at 1000 metres.
Come on Bandito: it's all about heat, ppl prefer Frozen city DAY to any other map, even if frozen city day, has no visibility at all.

Even Crimson has good visibility, but.... dropped only one yesterday.

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 November 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

So that's why I'll never see Terra? Because there you can see well at 1000 metres.
Come on Bandito: it's all about heat, ppl prefer Frozen city DAY to any other map, even if frozen city day, has no visibility at all.

Even Crimson has good visibility, but.... dropped only one yesterday.

1. Terra Therma is not about heat as much as the noob cauldron being the center of attention and the many choke points serving as the entrance to it. And no, one cannot see clearly at 1000 meters in Mordor. In Alpine, yes, but not in Mordor. Hell, I use NV on Mordor too see the enemy clearly from the black background, mere 300 meters away.

2. Frozen City Day has weather conditions, but unlike Forest Colony or Bog where vegetation still obscures you, HV grants great vision. And unlike the new and big River City, where HV's range is limited, the small nature of the Frozen City is means that battle is not hindered by HV's limited range.

3. I dropped three times in total in the Crimson Straight yesterday, so it obviously varies.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 November 2015 - 04:38 AM.

[STEF_]

GreyNovember, on 05 November 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Right. They enjoy that. In a game they like to play.

I won't bother with the derogatory terms, since that doesn't really validate anything I say.

Yep, I agree with what you wrote, and also I "completed" the post, writing why mwo bocomes even more fps CoD patch after patch.
And this should not be.
'Cause you know, Mechwarrior never meant to be a fps point and click no brain, but a thinking man shoter.
(Sadly PGI, greed for easy money, listens to those players. It's all about money, no?)

Even the greatest artworks can be judged "boring" and "no fun" by the large steering wheels of humanity.

El Bandito, on 05 November 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

1. Terra Therma is not about heat as much as the noob cauldron being the center of attention and the many choke points serving as the entrance to it. And no, one cannot see clearly at 1000 meters in Mordor. In Alpine, yes, but not in Mordor. Hell, I use NV on Mordor too see the enemy clearly from the black background, mere 300 meters away.

2. Frozen City Day has weather conditions, but unlike Forest Colony, or Bog, HV grants great vision. And unlike the new and big River City, where HV's range is limited, the small nature of the Frozen City is not hindered by HV's limited range.

3. I dropped three times in total in the Crimson Straight yesterday, so it obviously varies.

You know that it's all about heat, Bandito.
Maybe not for you.
But we are dropping there in Frozen city, because 70% of players like cold map for using laserboat.
^^ simple truth^^



IF not, then open visual for all maps!
Even better for me!

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 05 November 2015 - 04:40 AM.

[GreyNovember]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 November 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

But we are dropping there in Frozen city, because 70% of players like cold map for using laserboat.
^^ simple truth^^

Going to nitpick this point.

70%.

Is that an actual statistic, or a "Sounds about right to me" number?

I'm honestly with Bandito on this. I prefer maps based on visibility.

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 November 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

You know that it's all about heat, Bandito.

Then pray tell, why did Tourmaline Desert ended up to be the most popular map that I dropped into yesterday? It is even hotter than Terra Therma!

Checkmate. Mate.

It is basically as this guy said:

beerandasmoke, on 05 November 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

In my session players were voting for uncluttered maps with clear LOS. I played plenty of Tourmaline and Canyon and those are not cold maps. The new maps were not getting voted for at all which I found satisfying. Getting shot by mechs in clutter or ECM cover you cant even see is not fun or "immersive" for the majority of the playerbase. Hopefully PGI takes a lesson from this and removes clutter and fog from these maps and any future maps they develop.

Or this:

Torgun, on 05 November 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

In the case of Bog and Terra, I most certainly think they're simply bad map design. Tons of invisible clutter and really forced choke points just isn't very fun.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 November 2015 - 04:55 AM.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 05 November 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

Then pray tell, why did Tourmaline Desert ended up to be the most popular map that I dropped into yesterday? It is even hotter than Terra Therma!

Checkmate. Mate.

I envy you Bandito!
I really would like that map, for my gauss builds!

Not happening here, sadly.
I saw Tourmaline 1 2 times in 25-ish drops.
How's that?

[jss78]

El Bandito, on 05 November 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

I'm seeing more Tourmaline Desert than Frozen City. Heat is not what is driving people away.
It is the abundance of visual and physical obstructions that people hate.

http://mwomercs.com/...63#entry4804663

My experience also, every time Tourmaline is on the platter, it gets a lot of votes. Even Caustic seems to have its friends.

I was surprised though to have Viridian win the vote once, last night. I had become satisfied that I'd never see that *hithole again.

As far as I'm concerned, I really don't give a toss about the map, as long as I can see things.

[STEF_]

GreyNovember, on 05 November 2015 - 04:46 AM, said:

Going to nitpick this point.

70%.

Is that an actual statistic, or a "Sounds about right to me" number?

I'm honestly with Bandito on this. I prefer maps based on visibility.

Wait, I've never said I'm not interest in visibility!
I want that too!
And also a normal map rotation.
I'm seeing Frozen Yogurth too much, and it's very boring.
MWO is always been criticized for having few maps. Now it seems we have even less than before.

[Brawler1986]

Best option for both of worlds is to select 2 random maps with the only requirement that they match in environment characteristics. So only hot maps, or only normal maps, or only cold maps are paired. The map characteristics are randomly determent by the server.

What I am more concerned about is the game mode selection. Conquest is rarely chosen. A better option In my opinion is to have one predefined Favourite Game Mode and/or one predefined Least Favourite game mode. The least favourite game mode won't show up in the selection.

[BattleBunny]

I miss variety

I like HPG an frozen city as much as the next man, but playing only those maps gets boring really quik.
I already miss the bog and terra therma

[MechB Kotare]

Wait, certain maps are considered meta now? Lol. Ok.

[Alistair Winter]

Posers. So many posers.

People love to talk smack about the COD-kids and how they lack the mental capacity needed to play Mechwarrior games. And yet the same people are happy to play mechs boating a single weapon type, and will always vote on maps that make heat management a less important aspect of the game. They talk about how inferior the COD-games are, but they resent nerfs to agility, mobility, heat efficiency and burst damage.

As long as they get to instakill scrubs, they're having a good time. Never mind lore, immersion, realism, any of that.

/rant

Edited by Alistair Winter, 05 November 2015 - 06:27 AM.

[Wildstreak]

GreyNovember, on 05 November 2015 - 12:36 AM, said:

Honest question.

Why is this a problem?

People play what they enjoy.

Nope.
Mode voting pushes Conquest out for those who do prefer it and will screw up tournaments that require winning so many matches in each mode. That's the big one.
Map voting also has its problems.

Flash Frame, on 05 November 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

We as players, inhabit the role of soldiers... soldiers, do not get to pick where they fight. They fight where command TELLS them to fight.

The random nature of the game prior to this, simply emulated Command making a decision where the fight would take place.

Not entirely true. Soldiers do have some choice in where they fight.

The Atlas Overlord, on 05 November 2015 - 03:24 AM, said:

Umm...

You do realize that "cold" maps simply set your heat minimum heat to a negative number?

The first couple shots bring up to zero, and everything works like normal after that....unless you cool down below zero again.

Cold maps effectively just add some points onto the mechs heat cap.

Cold maps don't actually make you dissipate faster. (At least in any test I've ever done.)

Incorrect.
Take this Wolfhound build, make it on this page by using only 5ML for weapons, changing engine and adding 4 External Heat Sinks. Now change maps, notice the cooling rate line changes based on one of 3 map types Cold, Hot, Neither. Also note the Effective Cool Rate from map and Effective Heat Capacity from map is different for each map.