96 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

TWIAFU, on 10 November 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

It is NOT what I want that is important, it is what the majority wants. They are far more important then you, or I, alone.

Cause we have d-bags like whom I was referring to that is going to and is knowingly and intentionally non-participate in game modes, griefing 23 others, because he did not get what he wants when he wants before he quits the game, again.

If you do not like being FORCED to vote, then don't. If you do not like being FORCED to play a game mode the public voted on, then don't. If you do not like being FORCED to deal with each individual voting on what map they want to play when you login, then don't.

What your NOT going to be able to do is FORCE others to deal with your temper tantrum because you did not get what you wanted while in game. What will happen is you will be FORCED to take a vacation.

No, they are not "Not participating". They are just not participating the way YOU want them to play.

If I am the last one alive on skirmish and I make them have to hunt me down and find me to kill me, I win a personal victory since my team derped it up or fought valiantly but left me with an unwinnable situation.

You need to change your paradigm.



The only people here losing their cool over this are those who seem to think they are entitled to shove a railgun round through everyone's face and those who won't fight back and lose like they want must be stopped and removed from the game.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Nightmare1, on 09 November 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

I do miss the Therma map and Conquest game mode though!

there must be some benefit on hot, like your balistic fire faster and longer or anything....

[MechWarrior3671771]

TWIAFU: "Cause we have d-bags like whom I was referring to that is going to and is knowingly and intentionally non-participate in game modes, griefing 23 others, because he did not get what he wants when he wants before he quits the game, again."

Uhm, you are referring to me, and you have grossly distorted what I said, to justify calling me d-bag.

You're also just making up stuff. I never quit the game, so what is with this "again" business?

You should report yourself. Pretty sure calling people d-bags is not allowed.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 10 November 2015 - 06:13 AM.

[Mystere]

TWIAFU, on 10 November 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

If players WERE fed up with doing the same thing over and over, why do we have NASCAR? Why does everyone run to and stand in choke points in Terra Therma? Why does half your side still chase rabbits? Why does everyone, every map, run to the middle?

Ahem!

I am not one of that so-called "everyone". So speak for yourself, please.

[Burktross]

How about we get map tools so we can get more levels quicker. With pre-approved maps, we increase the pool for the voting system to draw from, thus reducing the frequency of the, how should we call them meta maps?

[Jacobei]

Yay the crappy majority in cookie cutter mechs... Because this degrading of the game "we all have to fit into the majority" limits game play and playing styles as they become builds that are not effective. This leads to even more cookie cutter builds, mechs, map positioning and it boils down to. Item Warriors!

[AbyssalTyrant]

Because if the majority of people wish to play "meta" maps then it stands to reason the majority of people will make meta maps. Which would mean the majority of people would vote(suggest/demand/throw fits like children if they didnt include) for more meta maps. Honestly I dont care , I play the game regardless of what map/mode it drops me in. If its in one I want , hey cool. If it isnt **** it I still play.

[Burktross]

AbyssalTyrant, on 10 November 2015 - 12:38 PM, said:

Because if the majority of people wish to play "meta" maps

i'm taking credit for coining this term now, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it! Muhuahahah!

[AbyssalTyrant]

Feel free , I sure didnt . Almost every shooter has their favorite maps that rise above the others . de_dust in counter strike , marketplace soccom 2 , gridlock gears of war and that one assault map in Unreal tournament 2004. Wish I could remember the name. Loved that map.

[Khereg]

Let's math it up, because who doesn't like a little stat-nerd post?

Popular maps:
Canyon Network
Crimson Straight
Frozen City Day
Frozen City Night
HPG Manifold
Mining Collective
Tourmaline Desert

Unpopular maps:
Alpine Peaks
Caustic valley
Forest Colony
River City
Terra Therma
Viridian Bog

So, 13 total maps, 6 of which are relatively unpopular (popular/unpopular distinctions made from personal experience in game, YMMV).

PGI used to weight the maps in rotation so that unpopular ones didn't show up as often. I don't know if they've changed that with the new voting system, but let's assume they did and all maps are equally likely to appear in the voting choices.

Further, let's assume that if at least one relatively popular map appears in the list, it will get voted in.

So, to get an unpopular map, we would need none of the popular maps to appear among our 4 choices. The odds of that happening are:

(6/13)^4 = 0.045 = 4.5%, or once every 22 matches.

Without knowing which of the unpopular maps are more or less popular relative to each other, let's just assume they are all hated equally. In that case, the odds of getting any individual unpopular map (like, say Terra Therma) is:

(1/6) * 0.045 = 0.0076 = 0.76%, or once every 132 matches.

That seems a little extreme, but not completely off the map (heh heh) based on what I've seen since voting was put in.

The reality is the popularity of maps will ebb and flow somewhat. As people play more, I think the "popular" maps will get tiresome and people will vote more for the unpopular maps, increasing the chance of seeing them. It could take a while, though.

Edited by Khereg, 10 November 2015 - 01:25 PM.

[Kjudoon]

I would like to also point out one other thing about the title of this thread.

"The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few"

There is one critical flaw in this line of reasoning. The word "Needs".

There are no "Needs" here. None, nada, zip, zero.

This entire thread has been all about the WANTS of the many and wants are something different than NEEDS. A "need" is something that directly relates to survival and the ability to sustain life or at least a status quo. "Wants" are not always good or right or moral or fair. All too often, a want is for what I like to call 'unenlightened self interest'. That means, you know what you want to make your own personal life easy in the short term while damaging and ruining things in the long term because you do not think about or even consider the consequences on anyone beyond yourself and instant self gratification.

No one is exempt from causality and bad choices in the here and now equal bad results later on. This can also be considered immature and destructive behavior because it does not consider the desires of others in a way that engenders goodwill, good manners and foster community between players outside of an artificial culture that forces people, by dint of desiring to play the same game, to associate with one another. You sow the wind and reap the whirlwind as the old saying goes.

I know narcissism, entitlement and self-centered thinking is pandemic in the gaming community because we're all here focusing on enjoying our free time, but some thought needs to be paid to the person metaphorically standing next to us. Are your wants harming others? If so, maybe you need to reconsider your wants and consider other options that satisfy both yourself AND someone elses wants.

If you still believe that your wants are superior to other peoples and this long-hair, high-brow thinking is a bunch of crap for people who need to shut up and git gud, then you are the problem and possibly beyond hope of comprehending what more civilized cultures consider plain good manners and morals. If people do not start thinking beyond their own self gratification, no community can survive for long.

Then we will have a 'needs' argument. The needs of this game to survive requires us, as gamers, to not always think of ourselves first so everyone can enjoy their time here.

[Kyle Travis]

PholkLorr, on 09 November 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

If you read the forums, you would think that map voting was horrible and alot of ppl miss the crappy (subjective term here) maps like the therra therma or bog or alpine or forest colony, thanks to the vocal minority.

SOME People complaining that de dust 1 and de dust 2 are the most popular CS maps and nobody wants to play the other maps in CS? Well, that means MOST people love it in comparison to the other maps.

I googled "Define popular": liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group//intended for or suited to the taste, understanding, or means of the general public rather than specialists or intellectuals.

If certain maps are loved or hated by a majority of players, then PGI should take heed and find out why in order to build more maps to cater to the wants of their populace. Look at the hard data. Which maps get the most/least votes. Not the amount of whine threads that go "waaaaaa, i want my Therra therma and Bog and Forest Colony!!!!" cause if you do, you end up thinking that crappy maps are in demand.

Whine all you want whiners, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Voting: Working as intended. Majority gets what they want. All the time. Yay to be one of the majority! Boy am i glad i won't see the crappy maps that the whinority group loves so much anymore.

That said, PGI has to find a way to cater to the needs of the few as well. As we can see, some people really love the maps and game modes that the majority hate. While the majority gets happier because they can keep playing what they want, the minority group will never be able to play the maps that they like.

Wow a whine thread whining about whining - wierd............

The majority are not voting for any set game usually - Like most voting systems its only a proportion of those that vote and which can actually be lower than all the other options receiving votes put together.

so 12 people

3 people are alt tabed and not looking
4 people for for frozen city
2 people vote for River City
2 people vote for Alpine
1 person votes for Bog

So the "majority" are actually 4 people out of 12...............

[Djinnhammer]

Well said Kjudoon.

[oldradagast]

Kjudoon, on 10 November 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

If you still believe that your wants are superior to other peoples and this long-hair, high-brow thinking is a bunch of crap for people who need to shut up and git gud, then you are the problem and possibly beyond hope of comprehending what more civilized cultures consider plain good manners and morals. If people do not start thinking beyond their own self gratification, no community can survive for long.

Remember: hyper-competitive sociopaths.

They think only of themselves, and they lack empathy and humility. They are all that matters - more precisely, their wins and their ability to rub it in everyone's face. They have to be the "best" - and pretend it's all "skill" - and then give everyone else crap about it, even if doing so drives away other players / customers and wrecks the game.

Never forget what they did to Community Warfare. They "needed" seal-clubbing and shooting gallery maps, and everyone else was supposed to just suck it up and be good little targets who died on cue and who didn't dare "whine" on the forums about this idiocy. They managed to drown everyone else out, and CW is now effectively dead. I see no reason to let the same mindset destroy the rest of the game, especially since the types of people we're talking about destroy everything fun they touch.

[MechaBattler]

Map voting is just a stupid idea. Might as well just have one map if they're so willing to throw away all the work they put into them.

Coddling people by allowing them to choose the easiest maps and modes. You're supposed to Mechwarriors!

[oldradagast]

MechaBattler, on 10 November 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

Map voting is just a stupid idea. Might as well just have one map if they're so willing to throw away all the work they put into them.

Coddling people by allowing them to choose the easiest maps and modes. You're supposed to Mechwarriors!

Remember: pixel perfect, long-range, high damage alphas on meta-crutch mechs = "skill"

"thinking man's shooter"

"Whah! Where's my role warfare?!"

End result = easy mode maps, meta-crutch mechs, and mindless murderball mode.

Amazing the game's fall and the gap between what people said they want and what they vote for when put to the test.

[MechaBattler]

oldradagast, on 10 November 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

Remember: pixel perfect, long-range, high damage alphas on meta-crutch mechs = "skill"

"thinking man's shooter"

"Whah! Where's my role warfare?!"

End result = easy mode maps, meta-crutch mechs, and mindless murderball mode.

Amazing the game's fall and the gap between what people said they want and what they vote for when put to the test.

Funny they complain about role warfare. But also complain about low visibility. What better reason to have lights, than maps with low visibility!

[oldradagast]

MechaBattler, on 10 November 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Funny they complain about role warfare. But also complain about low visibility. What better reason to have lights, than maps with low visibility!

Low visibility impedes the skill of copying-pasting a meta-crutch mech from the internet, clicking on a single pixel for insta-damage or kills, and getting a nice blast of endorphin for how good you are.

Far too many people when they speak of "wanting a challenge" in a video game only mean "the other guy should be challenged - but not me, because I'm a winner!"

[Mazzyplz]

oldradagast, on 10 November 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

Low visibility impedes the skill of copying-pasting a meta-crutch mech from the internet, clicking on a single pixel for insta-damage or kills, and getting a nice blast of endorphin for how good you are.

Far too many people when they speak of "wanting a challenge" in a video game only mean "the other guy should be challenged - but not me, because I'm a winner!"

amen.

[Tuis Ryche]

TWIAFU, on 10 November 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

If players WERE fed up with doing the same thing over and over, why do we have NASCAR? Why does everyone run to and stand in choke points in Terra Therma? Why does half your side still chase rabbits? Why does everyone, every map, run to the middle?

Because if I anti-NASCAR, I get reported for 'suiciding'.