26 replies to this topic

[guy0320]

The Grid Iron is getting a huge stealth nerf to its guass rifle. With the normal guass rifle cooldown increased to 5.5 seconds, and the cooldown quirk being reduced to 30%, the Grid Iron's new cooldown is a whooping 3.85 seconds. This effectively brings its cooldown quirk down to 3.75% if the regular guass rifle cooldown remained at 4.00 seconds. With the combining of these nerfs, the Grid Iron will shoot guass rounds about as fast as an unquirked mech currently does. If the Grid Iron shot guass that slow now, I curtainly wouldn't be running a guass on it. So, I won't plan on running guass on it during the pts. This double nerf results in the hero mech losing the feature that prompted me to buy it in the first place. If the guass rifle cooldown nerf and the quirk nerfs both go into place on the live servers, I will be wanting a full refund of the MC that I spent on the Grid Iron, and I expect that many others will as well.

If the intent of the new quirks on the Grid Iron was to knock its guass cooldown rate down 20% from the current live server cooldown rate for a cooldown time of 2.8 seconds, then the Grid Iron actually needs its guass rifle cooldown quirks increased to 51% with the new global guass rifle cooldown increase to 5.5 seconds.

[DivineEvil]

guy0320, on 16 November 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

The Grid Iron is getting a huge stealth nerf to its guass rifle. With the normal guass rifle cooldown increased to 5.5 seconds, and the cooldown quirk being reduced to 30%, the Grid Iron's new cooldown is a whooping 3.85 seconds. This effectively brings its cooldown quirk down to 3.75% if the regular guass rifle cooldown remained at 4.00 seconds. With the combining of these nerfs, the Grid Iron will shoot guass rounds about as fast as an unquirked mech currently does. If the Grid Iron shot guass that slow now, I curtainly wouldn't be running a guass on it. So, I won't plan on running guass on it during the pts. This double nerf results in the hero mech losing the feature that prompted me to buy it in the first place. If the guass rifle cooldown nerf and the quirk nerfs both go into place on the live servers, I will be wanting a full refund of the MC that I spent on the Grid Iron, and I expect that many others will as well.

If the intent of the new quirks on the Grid Iron was to knock its guass cooldown rate down 20% from the current live server cooldown rate for a cooldown time of 2.8 seconds, then the Grid Iron actually needs its guass rifle cooldown quirks increased to 51% with the new global guass rifle cooldown increase to 5.5 seconds.

If you bought a Grid Iron for quirks, you're an idiot. Well, basically if you've bought any Hero for their quirks, you are still an idiot.

All the data about all of the Hero mechs were shown upon their release. Equipment, hardpoints, engine rating limits and everything else were displayed. Quirks are not bound to any mechs and can change on at any time. Buying something, using it and then being displeased when the thing changes for balance purposes, because it is no longer Imba, is not a valid reson for refund calls.

Edited by DivineEvil, 16 November 2015 - 03:38 AM.

[Livewyr]

lolz.

DEy tork mah machingaawwwssss!

[HUBA]

Quote

If you bought a Grid Iron for quirks, you're an idiot. Well, basically if you've bought any Hero for their quirks, you are still an idiot.

nope, when you buy a new Mech then you buy one of the better one, otherwise you are an It is funny to notice that new Mechs tend to better then the "old" generation so ppl want to buy them. This is not a bad/mean move from PGI, but they were when they didn't do it

But we cannot expect that the new and good Mechs always stay that good. So hope for the best but expect a nerf.

[Tuis Ryche]

And this is why they'll never see me forking over $$$ for mechs again.

[Ano]

guy0320, on 16 November 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

With the combining of these nerfs, the Grid Iron will shoot guass rounds about as fast as an unquirked mech currently does.
...
If the intent of the new quirks on the Grid Iron was to knock its guass cooldown rate down 20% from the current live server cooldown rate for a cooldown time of 2.8 seconds, then the Grid Iron actually needs its guass rifle cooldown quirks increased to 51% with the new global guass rifle cooldown increase to 5.5 seconds.

I think the intent was NOT to have the Grid Iron retain its current rate of fire but to lower it. By your calculations, the GI will still have a 1.65s cooldown advantage over mechs without ballistic quirks. That's not insubstantial. Of course you're free to do whatever you want, but you might want to try both the GI and other not-quirked mechs with Gauss rifles on the PTR or after these changes go live; while it'll definitely be slower-firing, it'll still be faster than lots of other mechs.

guy0320, on 16 November 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

If the guass rifle cooldown nerf and the quirk nerfs both go into place on the live servers, I will be wanting a full refund of the MC that I spent on the Grid Iron, and I expect that many others will as well.

Tuis Ryche, on 16 November 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

And this is why they'll never see me forking over $$$ for mechs again.

Again, your choice, but I have to ask: is this the first online game you've *ever* played? Did you just start playing recently? Because changes to mech balance/capability (or class abilities, or spec abilities, or loadout abilities, depending on the online game you're talking about) are pretty much par for the course with online games.

It doesn't matter whether you spend $15 of real money or 30 hours of your life grinding to earn ingame cash, you *have* to acknowledge and expect that whatever you buy (whether for real-world currency or ingame fantasybucks earned by playing) will at some point be adjusted. The game will change. That's what online games *do*. Most likely its mentioned in the Ts&Cs as well.

I feel for you if you finally scraped together the cash to buy your Grid Iron last week only to learn that it's going to change in the near future (really, I do) but it is the nature of the beast.

[DivineEvil]

HUBA, on 16 November 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

nope, when you buy a new Mech then you buy one of the better one, otherwise you are an It is funny to notice that new Mechs tend to better then the "old" generation so ppl want to buy them. This is not a bad/mean move from PGI, but they were when they didn't do it

But we cannot expect that the new and good Mechs always stay that good. So hope for the best but expect a nerf.

Nah, when you buy a new mech, you buy a new mech. That's it. It wont perform as another mech, as ech has it ups and downs. It's the job of any developer to make each piece of their content being useful and effective to one degree or another. It's a funny contrast between the two authors in the same sub-forum; One, which sees a mech as pay-to-win, and complaining when it expected to change away from that shape; another, which sees every miniscule difference between Hero mechs and standard variants, neglecting all the underlying differences, and call it a pay-to-win. Variety of stupidity is unfathomable.

Besides, it's about the style of a mech. It's kinda weird having a mech stylized as american football player, that only marginally effective when hiding far away and poking, while breaking like glass in any direct confrontation. So additional durability for it at very least makes more sense.

[Elizander]

I'm fine with the GI in this version. Having 370m+ range MLs with the Gauss Rifle is pretty sweet.

[TheCharlatan]

So... a mech with a sniper weapon now has to go back to snipe, instead of brawling with rediculous DPS.
It looks to me that it is working as intended.

BTW, if you want to brawl with it, you can still mount a AC20 o AC10 (man i love the AC10 on the Grid Iron, don't ask me why).
.

[ZenFool]

So long as its on par with the other hunchies it's....Wait, its WORSE than every other hunchie??? So...It's like every other hero mech after a few months.

This game has always done a good job of NOT being pay2win, and the GI and Hugs bothered a lot of people. I own them both and understand how niche they really are, but I'm sure most people are happy with this. As for me, if you make the MC variant flat out worse(not the same, much much much worse) than the cbill version, why would I buy the MC one?

[Vashramire]

While I understand the theme that everyone likes to put a gauss on this thing and set that as the bar for how it performs, I find that rather limiting. Yes gauss is nice but I think it's overhyped especially on this mech. Never have I been afraid of any GI's in any mech I pilot that has run a gauss ever, unless I'm near dead already. Using it limits them and makes them slow, while still having an XL unless you want to skimp on weapons or ammo. Slow + XL = dead. Running an AC10, 3ML, SRM6+Art, and an XL 275(or std 200) gives you versatility as opposed to the ghetto sniper people try and build with it.

Should this mech be quirked to the point that it puts the gauss at near the same CD it had before and make everyone believe that you must run one, or is it ok for other builds to do better than gauss poke? The only time people felt the need to jam one on was when they put quirks in and that gutted a lot of different builds. I think a lot of people want more out of this mech than it was intended to give. People just want to play a sluggish close range gauss tumor for some reason.

[ZenFool]

Missiles are useless in the current game, even with the minor speed bump... It has 3 whole energy points, one in the head, which greatly limits the energy builds. The mech is really outperformed by pretty much everything else.

Also, you'll remember that it came out during football season last year, with the name "Gridiron", preloaded with quirks. This mech was literally MADE to use quirks. It's not like it was crap before and they made it better. They made it knowing it would have to rely on them.

[LORD ORION]

DivineEvil, on 16 November 2015 - 03:32 AM, said:

If you bought a Grid Iron for quirks, you're an idiot. Well, basically if you've bought any Hero for their quirks, you are still an idiot.

All the data about all of the Hero mechs were shown upon their release. Equipment, hardpoints, engine rating limits and everything else were displayed. Quirks are not bound to any mechs and can change on at any time. Buying something, using it and then being displeased when the thing changes for balance purposes, because it is no longer Imba, is not a valid reson for refund calls.

Except the best hero (STK-M) got a quirk buff, the almost OK heroes got nerfed into the ground and the bad heros are still very bad.

You're spouting pointless drivel about feedback in the feedback forum dedicated to the rebalance rather than providing your own feedback on the various problems.

Ultimately you're a hinderance. Go open your own thread and try to convince people the Gauss nerf is a good thing.

[LORD ORION]

Ano, on 16 November 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

I think the intent was NOT to have the Grid Iron retain its current rate of fire but to lower it

This mech was double nerfed.
Which is dumb because this mech already dies in 1-2 salvos to people who can aim and was just "ok" previously.

[Night Thastus]

Aww. Look at the poor, poor IS pilots sad they lost 50% quirks. Now you have what, 30%? Get over it. With modules and elite skills, you can still fire 2x as fast.

And yeah, gauss are longer cooldown, but it's for a reason. They were way too powerful.

[Vashramire]

ZenFool, on 18 November 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

Missiles are useless in the current game, even with the minor speed bump... It has 3 whole energy points, one in the head, which greatly limits the energy builds. The mech is really outperformed by pretty much everything else.

Also, you'll remember that it came out during football season last year, with the name "Gridiron", preloaded with quirks. This mech was literally MADE to use quirks. It's not like it was crap before and they made it better. They made it knowing it would have to rely on them.

It came out in early Jan with no weapon quirks and without them, builds varied quite a bit with most saying "gauss on a hunch is bad". It wasn't until late Oct that it got weapon quirks and they were for the U-A/C5. It wasn't until Dec 2014 that it finally got the Gauss quirks. That didn't suddenly make it viable. It made it a niche glass cannon that was sort of ok as long as it was allowed to sit back a plink away. People saying it needs a gauss and associated quirks to make it's dps increase, when PGI are obviously trying to push gauss away from being a high dps all arounder weapon. At best I believe PGI is going to make it retain it's mediocre rate of fire with 30% CD because pushing it any farther will conflict with their intent for the weapon. They don't want it to have a high dps. People will just have to hill hump slower.

[LORD ORION]

Night Thastus, on 18 November 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

Aww. Look at the poor, poor IS pilots sad they lost 50% quirks. Now you have what, 30%? Get over it. With modules and elite skills, you can still fire 2x as fast.

And yeah, gauss are longer cooldown, but it's for a reason. They were way too powerful.

No.
ACs are compartively terrible weapons compared to the Gauss. Gauss works because it has high velocity, even though it has terrible ammo and DPS to weight for what you get.
You really only see ACs doing well when they have high DPS at less than 400 range. (CUACs, Drg-1N)
Increase the engagement range and pilots can easily side step slow velocity ACs or twist to mitigate the damage they do.

Increase AC velocity up to 1500+ so they actually can work at 400+ range, and you'll see more mixed weapon mechs.

I doubt I'll play my Dragon if this is the final balance stats. TTK and mech accel/deaccel has gone way up, Dragon 1N DPS has gone way down... the mech barely works as it is now. It will be laughable at T3 and up.

[ZenFool]

Vashramire, on 18 November 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

It came out in early Jan with no weapon quirks and without them, builds varied quite a bit with most saying "gauss on a hunch is bad". It wasn't until late Oct that it got weapon quirks and they were for the U-A/C5. It wasn't until Dec 2014 that it finally got the Gauss quirks. That didn't suddenly make it viable. It made it a niche glass cannon that was sort of ok as long as it was allowed to sit back a plink away. People saying it needs a gauss and associated quirks to make it's dps increase, when PGI are obviously trying to push gauss away from being a high dps all arounder weapon. At best I believe PGI is going to make it retain it's mediocre rate of fire with 30% CD because pushing it any farther will conflict with their intent for the weapon. They don't want it to have a high dps. People will just have to hill hump slower.

Jan IS football season, as for the rest, meh. I guess my memory is fuzzy and I didn't look into it like you did, BUT that hardly matters. The fact of the matter is that a mech with useless hardpoints/quirks in the fifty ton category will NEVER NEVER NEVER be played.

[Vashramire]

ZenFool, on 18 November 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

Jan IS football season, as for the rest, meh. I guess my memory is fuzzy and I didn't look into it like you did, BUT that hardly matters. The fact of the matter is that a mech with useless hardpoints/quirks in the fifty ton category will NEVER NEVER NEVER be played.

I wouldn't call it useless. It has near the same hardpoints as a CN9-D only trading a missile for a laser. The locations of the hardpoints likely matter more in this case. It's not going to have excessive firepower or dps but it's not garbage. It bothers me that people think that they need to focus on just the gauss. If you value it heavily, your enemy will value removing it. Ideally you want to make all parts of the mech threatening and a lot of people underestimate how much more damage 3 MLs/MPLs and an SRM6 do compared to a gauss even on live which I believe to be it's greatest strength. Nothing better than ripping off armor on a mech and they realise too late that you still haven't fired your ballistic.

[VXJaeger]

Annoying that when at last IS got assault that is capable to deal dmg from range like DireWolf, Mauler, gauss'es are going to be nerfed. I mean WTF? Are clans really that bad that they can't handle situation where somebody is shooting back with same rules as they have done?