592 replies to this topic

[CorranHorn]

I had a great time, with the limited drops I was about to do. Played on both sides, about even for wins and losses on both sides for me. Enjoyable overall.

Though the wait times on IS side were fairly long.

[TWIAFU]

Rattazustra, on 06 December 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

Thank you for the non-constructive insult, but it is as a a matter of fact not lazy at all to look at the OFFICIAL TOURNAMENT PAGE, where nothing of any changes is mentioned and it is STILL LISTED as being 240 tons. That is no laziness on my part, but incompetence on the part of PGI. It is their job to make sure their official main page event information is not blatantly wrong, not our job to sift through tons of posts and tweets to find out what actually is. After all they DID change the event text when they switched from match points to accumulative match score.

Also this doesn't change anything. If tonnage is still 250, then the whole testing value of this event is zero. After all, the balancing is not only meant but REQUIRED to work for quick launch games as well as CW and for that to be the truth, it needs to equal out clan mechs and IS mechs. That can only be true if in CW the drop tonnage is equal. Asymmetric balancing in one area cannot equal symmetric balancing in another.

I am not the one that called them liars.

Not the one all bent out of shape that the official site is not accurate.

Not the one with the chutzpah to call someone out for insults after being insulting.

You were still three days behind then everyone else.

[Shadey99]

Raistlic, on 07 December 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

I played on the IS side for the event and enjoyed it (except for the waiting times). The balance felt fairly good. Therefor the victory conditions came down to teamwork, communication and the understanding of a simple principle on how clan vs IS matches usually work if the skill level is the same. As an IS player you could sum it up with the phrase: Just don't try to outsnipe clans.

I certainly did outrange them in my RVN-4X on Boreal this weekend. But I didn't kill anyone doing it. In fact it was entertaining to stand still and shoot them when they did no damage to me. The fire storm of lasers, ER PPC bolts, and AC rounds sent my way when I would was hilarious. The guys on TS can attest to it, I was laughing my *** off. That's an exception to the rule of course.

Vetal, on 07 December 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Actually balance is great except gausses, as i've predicted. They disappeared at all.

I saw a good number of clan mechs with gauss, though usually Shadow Cats and DWFs.

Steve Pryde, on 07 December 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

When PGI removes the range quirk, u can complain about range advantage for clans. At the moment u can not. The quirks and mechs are in the game. Live with it.

Like 2 IS mechs variants (not mechs, but variants) can exceed clan laser ranges and those are the BLR-1S and RVN-4X. Most IS mechs don't get range quirks. So yes some specific IS mechs can outrange, however most clan mechs can outrange most IS mechs. On Boreal for instance I need at least a LL to 'snipe' from the hills as IS, but a clanner can do it with ERMLs (for nearly equal damage).

That said, I'm a lore diehard and I feel nerfing the clans to much is the wrong idea.

[Twilight Fenrir]

I think time of day, more than anything, determined the winner of Tukkayid... During noon-4 my time, the clans were winning badly, then about 5PM their percentage dropped like a rock with their queue, as all the IS players woke up.

[Tank]

Raistlic, on 07 December 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

Actually I think that this is the reason why more people are playing IS than clan. One just don't want to use (or being accused/blamed/mocked for the use of) the superior tech because it does not reflect "true skill".

Blasphemy, 99% people jumped on the OP side in this game at the first chance they could for years, aka laser vomits, pop-tarts, lrms... you name it. We even had entire units dedicating if fighting easiest battles with every dirty advantage you can get.

They don't care - most people here wish for "PRESS TO WIN" button.

That's the biggest problem of this game, sportsmanship and fun is dead.

[KursedVixen]

Tank, on 07 December 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

Blasphemy, 99% people jumped on the OP side in this game at the first chance they could for years, aka laser vomits, pop-tarts, lrms... you name it. We even had entire units dedicating if fighting easiest battles with every dirty advantage you can get.

They don't care - most people here wish for "PRESS TO WIN" button.

That's the biggest problem of this game, sportsmanship and fun is dead.

I'd still have fun if they hadn't nerfed clan to the ground... the engine penatly okay i can live with, would rather have taken the heat penalty though.

[Hunter Watzas]

I play both sides and I would say pug match vs pug match the game is balanced as in any IS mech can put up a good fight against the Clan Mechs. However, the specialized IS mechs that will out perform that clan are not balanced. I have faced teams with 6 or 7 stalkers in a wave were they annihilated our force and we could barely scratch... we can shoot 2 lasers at max against one of those shooting 4. Their burn time is shorter and ends up doing more damage per trade. I have also dropped against full 12 mans of thunderbolts before and after the patch, they wiped the Clan force like it wasn't a contest.

Yes the game is more balanced if you drive any random IS mech but if you are a comp player you are going to drive IS the really specialized over quirked mechs.

Removing the weapon quirks such as range, beam duration, and energy is necessary.

[KursedVixen]

once again the problem arises clans are less numerous thus they drop more....This event can prove nothing as far as balance. because it's very likely that the Veteran IS pilots didn't get as much drops as the pugs.

Hunter Watzas, on 07 December 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

I play both sides and I would say pug match vs pug match the game is balanced as in any IS mech can put up a good fight against the Clan Mechs. However, the specialized IS mechs that will out perform that clan are not balanced. I have faced teams with 6 or 7 stalkers in a wave were they annihilated our force and we could barely scratch... we can shoot 2 lasers at max against one of those shooting 4. Their burn time is shorter and ends up doing more damage per trade. I have also dropped against full 12 mans of thunderbolts before and after the patch, they wiped the Clan force like it wasn't a contest.

Yes the game is more balanced if you drive any random IS mech but if you are a comp player you are going to drive IS the really specialized over quirked mechs.

Removing the weapon quirks such as range, beam duration, and energy is necessary.

I agree al weapon quirks need to go replace those that need -laser heat gen with a generalize -heat gen quirk.

Edited by KursedVixen, 07 December 2015 - 05:34 PM.

[SamsungNinja]

Sucks this fell on a weekend where I had other obligations

I've been waiting for it to come back around.

[Vajhra]

Yea, need extension.
The IS had a chance this time and it was trending back towards them.

[Grothaus]

From my experience during the event, IS seemed to have a slight advantage but still not enough to makeup for the greater experience of the average Clanner.

from my personal estimation

Clan Unit vs IS Pug - slight Clan Advantage (due to experience)
Clan Pug vs IS Pug- slight IS Advantage (due to buffs)
IS Unit vs Clan Pug - good IS Advantage (due to experience and buffs)
IS Unit vs Clan Unit - slight IS Advantage (due to buffs)

Pretty much saw alot of the normal behavior of IS pugs

The advantage IS has right now, the wep range of a few mechs (a minor situational advantage) wep heat/cooldowns (making them much better brawling), and structure quirks (higher armor values)

The newer, less experienced pilots both IS and Clan suffer from a few faults imo

1) Battlefield Situational Awareness (comes with experience)
2) Not as team oriented (accustom to traditional FFS's)
3) Timid (prefer to poke/snipe and slow to push/brawl) (lack of exp\coordination\less exp focusing on specific mech components in close range encounters, afraid of dying)

these seem to be the 3 reasons IS pugs do so badly, in most matches were IS pugs deathball and play aggressive, they win. Its moreorless an issue of closing the range gap quick and taking advantage of their superior armor, cooldowns, and heat and not allowing Clanners to poke/cooldown/repeat. Clan mechs have better alphas, but in the brawl overheat extremely quick. When IS pugs give Clanners the opportunity to alpha/cooldown at mid range distances, they lose.

IS pugs play into the advantages Clans have, but organized IS Units, push hard and push fast, closing the range gap quick, and dictating the battle on their own terms. For this reason, IS units have an advantage against Clan units, and this is what is truly unbalanced about the current state MWO.

I remember when I first starting playing MWO back in beta, years ago. It didnt take me long to realize, I couldnt play this game like CoD or the traditional FPS. I lost ALOT, I sucked ALOT. When i got sick of that, I joined a unit, and began to learn from more experienced players.

1) Teamwork/coordination
2) Knowing your role on a team
2) Team over self (CW ex. targeting turrets/gens even though it doesnt show up on the match screen, leading a push)
4) Smart builds
5) Playing smart (awareness/focusing on specific components on a mech)

these are key to victory.

What PGI NEEDS to understand

Until a new/inexperienced player understands these points, they are not entitled to being balanced with the players who do understand. They deserve to lose, face first in the dirt, over and over.... until they grow up and become real Mechwarriors.

Comm out.

Edited by Grothaus, 07 December 2015 - 06:20 PM.

[JaidenHaze]

This event was really good. I hope that we will see similar events in the future to bring more incentives for cw into the game.

My experience: I dropped over 40 times and won 90% of that. While I did play most with DSx, I also played in small groups of 4 to 6 and some pugs. The main reason why we won so much where inexperienced is player. Coordination is the most important thing. That being said, all lost games where extremely hard stomps by metamechs. 48 to 12 or 16.when the is users their quirked mechs, we don't have a chance to win.

To the different queues: nope, wouldn't do that. Longer wait times are tough to deal with and it makes mistakes more prominent.

The real problem are the maps. All the maps are basically the same. Tf all tends to be very stagnant.

Why don't we see maps that emphasizes smaller group play in Lance strength. Imagine that you have a convoy to protect, that is taking one of multiple possible routes. All of them are separated from each other. This way, the defender isn't stationary, you emphasize scouting and a very dynamic battle, depending on the location. Combine that with for example the need to protect the endpoint, while you escort multiple convoys over the map duration.

There are thousands of possibilities. Pick something other that the base protection. Or make different layouts. All maps are the same. I guess there are some bases that are in the open and just protected by walls.

[KursedVixen]

Grothaus, on 07 December 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

From my experience during the event, IS seemed to have a slight advantage but still not enough to makeup for the greater experience of the average Clanner.

from my personal estimation

Clan Unit vs IS Pug - slight Clan Advantage (due to experience)
Clan Pug vs IS Pug- slight IS Advantage (due to buffs)
IS Unit vs Clan Pug - good IS Advantage (due to experience and buffs)
IS Unit vs Clan Unit - slight IS Advantage (due to buffs)

Pretty much saw alot of the normal behavior of IS pugs

The advantage IS has right now, the wep range of a few mechs (a minor situational advantage) wep heat/cooldowns (making them much better brawling), and structure quirks (higher armor values)

The newer, less experienced pilots both IS and Clan suffer from a few faults imo

1) Battlefield Situational Awareness (comes with experience)
2) Not as team oriented (accustom to traditional FFS's)
3) Timid (prefer to poke/snipe and slow to push/brawl) (lack of exp\coordination\less exp focusing on specific mech components in close range encounters, afraid of dying)

these seem to be the 3 reasons IS pugs do so badly, in most matches were IS pugs deathball and play aggressive, they win. Its moreorless an issue of closing the range gap quick and taking advantage of their superior armor, cooldowns, and heat and not allowing Clanners to poke/cooldown/repeat. Clan mechs have better alphas, but in the brawl overheat extremely quick. When IS pugs give Clanners the opportunity to alpha/cooldown at mid range distances, they lose.

IS pugs play into the advantages Clans have, but organized IS Units, push hard and push fast, closing the range gap quick, and dictating the battle on their own terms. For this reason, IS units have an advantage against Clan units, and this is what is truly unbalanced about the current state MWO.

I remember when I first starting playing MWO back in beta, years ago. It didnt take me long to realize, I couldnt play this game like CoD or the traditional FPS. I lost ALOT, I sucked ALOT. When i got sick of that, I joined a unit, and began to learn from more experienced players.

1) Teamwork/coordination
2) Knowing your role on a team
2) Team over self (CW ex. targeting turrets/gens even though it doesnt show up on the match screen, leading a push)
4) Smart builds
5) Playing smart (awareness/focusing on specific components on a mech)

these are key to victory.

What PGI NEEDS to understand

Until a new/inexperienced player understands these points, they are not entitled to being balanced with the players who do understand. They deserve to lose, face first in the dirt, over and over.... until they grow up and become real Mechwarriors.

Comm out.

Fully agreeed.

[Feaad]

Husker Dude, on 07 December 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

I hope the swing towards parity wasn't a bunch of IS teams getting ghost drops.

It wasn't. I got in a match right at the end and 12-mans were in Queue on both sides.

[Pihoqahiak]

Shadey99, on 07 December 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Like 2 IS mechs variants (not mechs, but variants) can exceed clan laser ranges and those are the BLR-1S and RVN-4X. Most IS mechs don't get range quirks. So yes some specific IS mechs can outrange, however most clan mechs can outrange most IS mechs. On Boreal for instance I need at least a LL to 'snipe' from the hills as IS, but a clanner can do it with ERMLs (for nearly equal damage).

There are 59 Inner Sphere mech variants that can out range Clan ER Large Lasers with a Mark I Targeting Computer. 15 or so of them are good mechs for Community Warfare. That is a lot of choices for dominating the range game in Community Warfare. Making the decision to avoid choosing to use or being ignorant of the existence of superior ranged Inner Sphere mechs does not change the fact that they ARE superior in that aspect of the game.

[Rattazustra]

I am very much looking forward to the event statistics. Last time they are very interesting already. This time even more so.

[Alilua]

I had fun during the event.

[Jess Hazen]

yeap i came looking for statistics, and am also waiting for another IS mech buff since clan mechs can't possibly be further nerfed, thought i shouldn't say that since PGI will find the way now that i have.

[Mordin Ashe]

100mile, on 06 December 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

You clan guys are incredible...You have had completely OP mechs for over 2 years and now that things are closer to being balanced your whinnnnnning and crying on the forums about how bad things are....
1) You can still fire a higher Alpha
2) Your DPS is still slightly higher
3) You still have the advantage in distance if you outfit your mech right

I do agree with one thing tho...I believe the balance is close enough that no major nerfs are warranted....Have enjoyed the fights over the first couple of days...And Clans your probably gonna win the overall fight anyways so quite freaking WHINING

You are incredible, my poor friend :-)
- How could have Clan Mechs be OP for over 2 years when they are in game only 16 months? Your math doesn't add up here...
- First nerfs came several months after Clans were introduced. They were OP only for the first three months or so, after first wave of nerfs many became comparable to T1 Mechs. Very little has changed since then surprisingly.
- IS can also fire its higher alpha, the difference is that IS can fire it many times in a row with shorter bursts, ahving time to shield-arm.
- DPS is higher ON PAPE. In practise with all the quirks we are about on par with IS. Do the math ffs!
- Top distance belongs to IS and the mid range is contested territory between Clan and overquirked IS Mechs. Clans have generally an advantage here but that is because not every IS Mech in battle is one with the range quirks. Close range belongs to IS. Lets count, something you kind of struggle with: IS has top and close range, mid belongs to the Clans. How is that OP again...?

IS almost won, despite having generally worse players and almost no comp teams. If anything tells that Clan nerfs went too far it is this.

[whitelightshadow]

KursedVixen, on 06 December 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

18 Clan que to 41 IS yeah, PGI stacked the odds just so they could nerf us more.

Nerf? It was the same on the previous tourney and that one you also won right?
You can be glad PGI dont care about lore, cause then you would have 10 mechs
on Clan side and be outnumbered 4:1....