284 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Brian Davion, on 16 December 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

I'd be more worried about if and when PGI starts bringing in the IS TRO 3055 mechs. a lot of those mechs pack ECM. and some have the potential to be Meta changers. the Anvil for example, even stock you're looking at an ECM mech with a damn near meta weapons config

Holy flipping motherloving Jesus on a tricycle. That's basically my dream mech! How have I not heard of this before?

86.4 kph with its stock STD300 engine!
ECM + Jump jets!
Humanoid with high mounted weapons!
One variant has 6 (count 'em) energy hardpoints!

If this mech makes it to MWO, I will be pre-ordering the Collector's Edition with bells and whistles!

Narcissistic Martyr, on 16 December 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

That or JJ or both.

Alas, the JJs on assault mechs don't add much mobility these days. But I see your point.

[Gas Guzzler]

Owen Miller, on 16 December 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

I can agree with this. There should be at least one C-bill variant that can support ECM as well.

Oh gosh.

Once you go down this route then we need the following C-bill variants:

Stalker with ballistic
Griffin with 6 E hardpoints
Victor that can sword and board and run an XL400
Atlas with 6E hardpoints
FS9 with 4B hardpoints
Quick draw with 2B hardpoints
Cataphract with 3B hardpoints in separate spots
Etc

[Unreliable Mercenary]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 December 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

Oh gosh.

Once you go down this route then we need the following C-bill variants:

Stalker with ballistic
Griffin with 6 E hardpoints
Victor that can sword and board and run an XL400
Atlas with 6E hardpoints
FS9 with 4B hardpoints
Quick draw with 2B hardpoints
Cataphract with 3B hardpoints in separate spots
Etc

Sorry I am a bit new, so my words on this may not carry much weight, but I am okay with Heroes having unique hardpoints and weapon systems, but ECM is kind of a different animal in that it adds a large amount of utility to the battlemech, that can impact the match. So having at least one c-bill variant that can carry it does not seem like too much to ask.

Edited by Owen Miller, 16 December 2015 - 07:18 PM.

[Deathlike]

Alistair Winter, on 16 December 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

It clearly does matter, yes. But the question is: will it have a significant impact?

A lot of people are comparing it to the Hellbringer, but it's completely different. The Hellbringer was the first Clan heavy mech with ECM, and it was a top tier mech. It was also the first 65 ton Clan heavy, which mattered for CW dropdeck purposes. Putting it behind a paywall was very obviously P2W, although white knights prefer to call it 'early access'.

This is very different. The Tempest doesn't have the combination of high mounted energy and ballistic hardpoints that MWO players crave. It's not the first IS heavy with ECM, it's not even the first 70 tonner with ECM.

It does matter, just like it matters that PGI "happened" to put all the best Clan mech variants as pre-order bonuses. "Oops, you want that 6SPL Jenner IIC? Well..." But in the great scheme of things, it's probably not going to have a significant impact.

Essentially, the Tempest is a 5 ton heavier Catapult C1 with ECM. It's got some arms and stuff, sure. My point is, if you look at how many people are dominating the battlefield in their CPLT-C1 right now, it gives little reason to worry that the Tempest will change the landscape of MWO at all.

Griffin-2N is already efficient at this... maybe not in the missile launchers, but it carries ECM, JJs, and is already superior to the Griffin-3M that it kinda displaced in the first place.

[cSand]

Alistair Winter, on 16 December 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

I don't own a Pretty Baby, but I have immense sympathy for the poor fools who purchased one.

Don't feel bad for me man, I love the PB

sure it's not metatastic but hey... had plenty of good times runnin round in that thing

[MauttyKoray]

Its okay, the new ECM system that comes out won't be a jesusbox anymore. Whenever they finish the target profile system for sensors that is...

[Scanz]

Lot of crying about unrealesed mech

Lel

[Gas Guzzler]

Owen Miller, on 16 December 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

Sorry I am a bit new, so my words on this may not carry much weight, but I am okay with Heroes having unique hardpoints and weapon systems, but ECM is kind of a different animal in that it adds a large amount of utility to the battlemech, that can impact the match. So having at least one c-bill variant that can carry it does not seem like too much to ask.

ECM adds utility yes, but this game isn't just Archers. There are other ECM mechs that are probably going to be better than this one.

Just FYI, the other variants are lore specified variants so they will not be getting ECM they had a little bit of flexibility with the Tempest because they were making the config up. If this really escalated to a PGI-P2W-hunt, it is more likely they would just pull ECM off of the Tempest. Everyone loses.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Okay, let's pretend that ECM still is and will remain the God box. Even THEN...

-The Archer, including the 'Tempest', is a missile carrier.
-ECM obscures a mech from passive detection.
-Firing MISSILES is a huge giveaway for your position.
-Oh, but ECM also prevents target locks.
-But the current meta, and the pop-tart that flourished when ECM was all Harry Potter's cloak and ****, is direct-fire weapons.
-(p.s. ECM cannot (yet) prevent visual identification of targets.)

So, yeah, let the folks pay $15 to get an Archer with a 1.5-ton paper weight taped on. Who cares, really?

In PUGlandia, it'll be so-so among the Archer variants. It has the fewest missile hard points of all four ARCs, and has to put up with IS DHS (for which it will undoubtedly lack space, given its endo-steel internal structure) to fill those E points meaningfully. Many will likely drop the ECM anyhow. The ARC-5W will be the favorite SRM brawler, and also a funny/derpy LRM-5 chainsaw. The -5S will likely be retrofit with a STD engine and be THE brawly chassis, unless it gets quirked some weird way. Tempest just isn't going to be worth the money for a lot of folks, and in PUG drops, it's only really going to be able to make use of that ECM against newbies.

With so few E points, I doubt it'll see much use in CW/FW/W(hateverit'scalledthisweek)W. And 12v12 comp likely won't have regular use for it, either.

No. Let it be the one lone mech that gets the old-school ECM God box, and it still won't matter enough to go 'calling for change' from PGI.

And out of ALL the hero mechs so far, we have like TWO (one only ANNOUNCED so far, still three months removed from the live game) that carry ECM. The other has a little less armor than my Toyota Tacoma and is slower (downhill with a tailwind, anyhow).

THERE IS NO ISSUE HERE. Move along, nothing to see...

[Lucian Nostra]

Honestly I'm glad to see the Tempest get something over the other Archers.

You know it's quirks will be lesser, mounting ECM is pretty big so the other archers will undoubtedly get heavier quirks similar to the Marauder 3R vs all the other Jumping Marauders.

And in all honestly.. Im sick and tired of PGI releasing trash *** hero mechs because they're afraid of forum whiners screaming PTW because a hero might have some advantage. How many heroes have just come and gone the cbill variants vastly superior because of this fear?

[El Bandito]

Lucian Nostra, on 17 December 2015 - 12:20 AM, said:

And in all honestly.. Im sick and tired of PGI releasing trash *** hero mechs because they're afraid of forum whiners screaming PTW because a hero might have some advantage. How many heroes have just come and gone the cbill variants vastly superior because of this fear?

Quarantine is the only recent one I remember.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 December 2015 - 12:55 AM.

[Elizander]

People keep harping about ECM but honestly we all know that ECM doesn't make a mech competitive or OP. The CTF 0X and the GRF 2N are both ECM mechs and they aren't exactly the hottest items in both Meta and Competitive and even the Ebon Jaguar is tied up with the Hellbringer rather than being thrown down a tier or two due to not having ECM.

[Khobai]

Quote

People keep harping about ECM but honestly we all know that ECM doesn't make a mech competitive or OP

No but it makes the mechs that are already competitive, that also have ECM, much better than anything else.

Arctic Cheetah, Hellbringer, etc...

[C E Dwyer]

DAYLEET, on 16 December 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

It's the first Heavy that interested me in a long time. The fact that it's a hero isnt a problem, it's a bonus, 30% bonus to be exact and the pattern looks more sober like the protector and i really like that.

Yup I can't stand the hero Riflemans camo, looks like someone gorged on boiled sweets then puked, if I am still playing the game come Feb, mines going to be black all the way (hopefully)

[Wales Grey]

Revorn, on 16 December 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

Its a realy unjusual desission from PGI. Lets hope they change it.

Actually, this is perfectly in line with PGI's previous decisions.

[Revorn]

Wales Grey, on 17 December 2015 - 02:12 AM, said:

Actually, this is perfectly in line with PGI's previous decisions.

I cant see this, i always thought, Heromechs are worse. May you explain me your Point, pls?

[Wales Grey]

Revorn, on 17 December 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

I cant see this, i always thought, Heromechs are worse. May you explain me your Point, pls?

It's perfectly in line with PGI's stated and apparent goals of milking as much money from the Battletech fandom as possible. As examples of hero mechs being superior: Flame (lol dragons are all bad but it's the least offensive one), Illya.

[Revorn]

Wales Grey, on 17 December 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

It's perfectly in line with PGI's stated and apparent goals of milking as much money from the Battletech fandom as possible. As examples of hero mechs being superior: Flame (lol dragons are all bad but it's the least offensive one), Illya.

Ah, oki, now i see you Point, thy for clarification.

[Chuanhao]

ECM was inevitable as it was the only way to recreate the phantom mech ability for kells archer, which is also the best candidate for a hero

that said, it doesnt have that unique a loadout. 3 M slots with 4 M slots is not much different from the Cat 0X. Think of it as a missile version of the AC20 CTF-0X that also has ECM. And I mean its still a LRM with insufficient slots to boat anything. It probably needs the ECM to compete with the S and W variants properly

and 15 is really cheap for a hero anyway.

sure, I preferred it if it were free. But its not going to be OP. I mean. Do u foresee a heavy going off alone somewhere and shelling withs LRMs? Thaf would be nunber one target for tbe cbill buy able ecm equipped heavy / assault hunting ACH.

[Rushin Roulette]

Wales Grey, on 17 December 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

It's perfectly in line with PGI's stated and apparent goals of milking as much money from the Battletech fandom as possible. As examples of hero mechs being superior: Flame (lol dragons are all bad but it's the least offensive one), Illya.

Oh wow... I really see your point. The hero mechs are all superior to their plebian counterparts. I mean the players in the Pretty Babies, Jesters, Bored heads, Protectors, Ansnasis, X-5s, St Ives Blues...(s), Golden Boys, Fangs, Dragon Slayers and Heavy Metals are running completely amock ingame absolutely dominating the meta gameplay due to their massive advantages over all other mechs.