37 replies to this topic

[Doomerang]

With the current state of ultra heat efficient and high structure/armor Inner Sphere quirk mechs, Clans are going to need some very serious buffs to their damage dealing capacity, mobility, or something, anything to balance out the IS vs Clan community warfare game mode. The problem is easiest to see in IS vs Clan CW pug games, which generally end with the Inner Sphere team rolling into the Clan dropzone, trading two alphastrikes to every one Clan alphastrike, and winning each engagement with mechs remaining that are still extremely combat capable.

One way to solve this issue is to bring the clan heat down, damage up, and weapons ranges up. Another would be to remove the extra 150 armor/structure mechs like the Catapult get through quirks, which increases the total health of the mech by roughly 25%. Or reduce the Inner Sphere weapons ranges accordingly, so that IS mechs with 25% energy range bonus don't have medium lasers that have a longer optimal range than Clan mech ERML's, and much longer maximum range than Clan mech ERML's.

Perhaps give all clan mechs 15% or 20% bonus to their top speed and torso twist rate, and acceleration, on top of what bonuses they may already have. I don't know. Something really, really needed to change to improve the clans for the last ~16 months, but all the attention they receive up until the ~Tukayidd 2 hot fix patch, or the UAC adjustment, has been negative, while the IS received the opposite treatment. In general, the Clans have been handicapped in CW nearly since release.

[Wildstreak]

More buffs is how power creep comes in and part of why we are where we are today.

[WANTED]

I just wish I could play the CW games you see. Basically what you experience I experience in all my CW games but from IS side. Even with the clan nerfs and IS quirks my pugs were getting rolled over and over and the game was usually done by the 1st or second waves already so it's tough for me to say I agree from my perspective.

[Wildstreak]

If people paid attention to what happens in the match, they would see a number of times it is how the players react more than the tech.

[Russhuster]

just when lhe fun is nerfed out of the ppl playing clan mechs completely and youhave even more is Ghost drops as only game Mode
just then maybe the thinking will begin

not a single second earlier

[Lily from animove]

Russhuster, on 17 December 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

just when lhe fun is nerfed out of the ppl playing clan mechs completely and youhave even more is Ghost drops as only game Mode
just then maybe the thinking will begin

not a single second earlier

There is a lot fun lost in many chassis, and these do belong to both sides. There is still a lot fun in IS anc clanchassis, but this fun is unhealthy (aka unbalanced bcuz op) compared to the rather unfun chassis.

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 December 2015 - 09:04 AM.

[Russhuster]

agreed
yah lets thank pgi for considering our health so deerly

Edited by Russhuster, 17 December 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[Doomerang]

I will try to provide some examples WANTED so you can see some proof that what I am describing isn't an isolated occurrence in Clan CW.

[VorpalAnvil]

PGI will never give the clans an even break. Balance was very close before the Dec. 1st patch, but the bads still couldn't win. Now IS is super buffed and clans are mediocre at best but the IS bads still managed to lose Tuk2 due to their combined lack of team play and lower average skill. Most people play IS, which means more money is spent by IS players. This is the player base PGI wishes to placate. My unit said screw it and went IS, where we can at least face IS mechs on an equal basis. The mediocre and low skill players are the majority of the player base, and will never admit or even recognize balance if and when it occurs and will still scream "Clans OP" at every given opportunity. Maybe when the clan queues for CW are empty will PGI do something, but I and my unit didn't feel like waiting 6 months to find out. Just go IS, it's the simple solution.

Edited by VorpalAnvil, 17 December 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Doomerang]

Here are screenshots of eight recent Clan vs IS Community Warfare matches. I hope I am posting these correctly. In general this is what my CW experience is an accurate representation of my community warfare experience as a Clan player since CW debuted.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

[gloowa]

brace yourself. PGI just enabled 48 thunderbolt drops.

this gonna be gud read on forums next few days.

[Heuvadoches]

Doomerang, on 17 December 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

With the current state of ultra heat efficient and high structure/armor Inner Sphere quirk mechs, Clans are going to need some very serious buffs to their damage dealing capacity, mobility, or something, anything to balance out the IS vs Clan community warfare game mode.

[Redacted - Player disagrees with above statement.]

Edited by John Wolf, 18 December 2015 - 08:57 AM.
Unconstructive

[gloowa]

Heuvadoches, on 17 December 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

[Redacted]

In what way are IS mechs crippled?

Edited by John Wolf, 18 December 2015 - 08:56 AM.
Moderated Quote

[Doomerang]

They aren't. It's just an Inner Sphere troll getting his kicks in. In related news - Clans got 10t more drop deck potential for Community Warfare today, and Inner Sphere got 15t more. It's nice, but we had 96 tons to the Inner Sphere's 100 tons before the adjustment. Now we have 94.3 tons to the Inner Sphere's 100 tons. We can adjust our decks a bit better now than we could before, but that's even more the case for the Inner Sphere, so I'm still trying to wrap my head around the change and the fact that IS pug groups are 8 for 10 against Clan pug groups in CW, from those recent matches I've had the chance to witness.

[Delta1262 Scorch]

The main problem here, is that PGI trying to balance Clan and IS techs, and when they say - Clans have better range, but IS is stronger in brawl - in common it is so. Just some part of the IS mechs have ridiculous quirks, that in total got unspeakable advantage against Clan mechs. And without the empty words, if go to facts.

Those quirks like +20%, +30% Energy range - in the end comes out that even Stock, not mastered IS mech will have better range with the same ERPPC or ERLL then mastered Clan mech, with even T.Comp 7, and weapon range module. The same for brawl type mechs, with those quirks for less Cooldown, less Heat, and others. In total we can say that those quirks give great upperhand to some particular IS mechs, but! What PGI is missing in their calculations - players who use those mechs only, because why not? It's OP, and i don't have to bother myself, who don't like the easy win? It has quirks for LPL? Then i'll use only them, for ERLL - i'll fill all the hardpoints i can with ERLL then.
And that's what break balance and teamplay baces completely. You don't need that teamplay if you just can take mech with range quirks, get 5-6 ERLL in it and just stay and shoot from distances where you can't be countered during all the CW match, or plant 3 LPL and some 5 mediums and go in solo, killing any mech from 1 or 2 full alphas, why do you need that team then? And you can do them easily whyle enemy will only manage to shoot once, because you have lesser ghostheat restrictions, much greater heatsink capacities, and quirks on weapon cooldown.

And let's see what do we have in total:
1. Clans have the range advantage on their weapons in common, but if IS goes in range with range quirked mechs (and they are going, because they are build for that) - they have better range, better alpha (because of ghost heat restrictions), better dps (cooldown quirks, and heat capacity).
2. Then maybe Clans must have better options with missiles? But no - rebalance mostly buffed IS missiles because they are hitting all one in a time, when Clan missiles are hitting in a volley, and are good for mostly continues fire on some targets that are walking through the open field, and not staying near the cover. How often do we see that in CW games? And how the streaks are spreading damage now, with all those structure quirks for all the mech parts, they went far away from effectiveness.
3. Clan ballistics then maybe, and all the close range brawl? But nope again - we all know what Clan ballistics are with that spreading damage. And as for brawl - trading alphas or going in direct contact are not effective due to yet again - ghost heat restrictions that gives IS much bigger alpha strike, heat capacities that makes most of the Clan brawl builds to shutdown after 2, or maybe even 3 alphas (when IS analogs are not going to do than), numerous structure quirks, that make IS mechs even more harder to deal against.

So in what "OP Clans" are actually stronger then? Because all the quirk system lead the game to not variety of multiple mechs, choices, and strategies with the teamplay - but to the "clonewars" with all the same mechs with the same builds, because they are simply unmatched.

[Tarl Cabot]

It can be a steam roll for either side, more so after the Steam release where CW is made out to be the centerpiece of the game. I would bet that your teams have been almost all pugs with lot of Steam or green players using trial Clan mechs. Where on the IS side there may be pugs but at least one screenshot should members from the same unit. Get them to herding the rest, being semi-aggressive while the Clan side may or may not have a Drop Commander, with primarily trial mechs, playing very defensively, it will end badly.

1) Tons of fresh meat
2) CW appearing to be centerpiece of game, fresh meat going up thinking this is where it is at. Get to drop with 4 mechs!!!!!
3) IS mechs quirks have a small drop in percentage, weapon-wise but structural quirks are built up (remember, IS-XL ST loss kills a mech)
4) Clan mechs have ERML and smaller range weapons max distance reduced.
5) CW tonnage increased on both side. PUG-wise, imho, IS benefits more if taking Trial mechs than Clans
IS - King Crab/Atlas, T-Bolt, Enforcer, Hunchback. (265 tons) Replace the previous HB w/Jenner/Raven
Clan - T-wolf, E-Jaguar, Stormcrow, A-Cheetah (225 tons) 25 tons to spare
Clan2 - T-wolf, Stormcrow, Shadowcat, Cheetah (205) T-wolf could be replaced w/Exe

Essentially, it is the timing of everything that was done at the same time that affects Clan newbie pugs more so than IS newbie pugs, especially when it comes to the drop desks.

Edit- for the mechs with C-ERML, people need to remember they play more like a lite Large Laser than a std medium laser, even with the max range cut. How many of you play IS mechs and would put 5 large lasers on a mech and run them as if they were med lasers? Clan mechs have a steeper learning curve due to what little heat management there is in the game.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 December 2015 - 06:43 AM.

[Rexxxxxxxxx]

PGI needs to make Clan mechs cheaper to buy/unlock/master.
Then new/inexperienced players will join Clans more often. Giving IS more opportunities to win.

New players are limited by their mechbays when mastering a mech. They have to buy then sell mechs due to only having 4 mechbays when they start the game. A lot of money is wasted because of the need to sell an engine along with a Clan variant. When you sell anything you get less than half the value.

The IS can strip and swap engines when ever they want. Holding as many engines as they want, unrestricted by mechbays. This is a significant savings when working with IS mechs.

[Aiden Skye]

I agree that a lot of these IS range and duration quirks need to be turned down. I remember when clans first came out and C-ER large lasers could hit out too 1k m optimal range was it? They got their range and duration nerfed hard as well has getting a healthy dose of ghost heat. Now quirks have pretty much handed this over to IS chassis. In CW all you see is chassis quirked for range, duration and heat.

There as less clan mechs than IS mechs in the game. A few underperforming clan mechs have more of an impact on the clan lineup as there are less clan mechs. Only going to see more HBR, TBR, EBJ, ARC all with laser vomit which gets boring. I really hope PGI has something in the works for the lesser used clan chassis and weapons to make them more desirable.

[Russhuster]

its more likely the mentioned TBR HBR EBJ and ARC get nore Nerfs they must be op because every clan player uses these,

And PGI strategy for Clan is not
Try to improve anything what is not competetive but Nerf everything down till its worse than the worst chassis now so the (now)worst chassis will be used

Till the next IS howling whine comes around the corner

but hope dies last they say

Edited by Russhuster, 22 December 2015 - 07:59 AM.

[THumper9669]

The best way to fix the balance issue is to nerf PGI right in the pocket book. Dont buy any thing and ask for a partial refund for the broken mechs they claimed they charged so much for was because they were suppose to be better. Maybe if they get the force of the people wanting this then maybe just maybe it will be a wake up call. I have seen other games start down this road and people left them to die and PGI is starting down this road. By the way how can you adjust the heatsinks when they didnt work right in the frist place.