35 replies to this topic

[PocketYoda]

Jonathan vom Falkenstein, on 20 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

Problems with LRMs? Don´t stand in the open.

That reduces the Dmg you take from LRMs up to 100%.

Also reduces the dmg you do to the enemy by 100% too

[mikerso]

Samial, on 21 January 2016 - 11:29 PM, said:

Also reduces the dmg you do to the enemy by 100% too

Not necessarily. Brawl near buildings and such. You do not have to stand in the water on river city to fight.

Dave Forsey, on 21 January 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

I may be able to add a very simple something with LRMs into the Academy, but I've run into memory limitations on 32bit machines.

Glad to hear you are looking into it.

[mad kat]

The problem is not the lurms it's the pug mentality. By and large pugs are sheepish and cowardly, no one wants to be at the front and brawling and the Pug queue is bordering on extinction. People are far too happy sniping from the back more often than not in the mechs that should be at the forefront of a charge. Just last night 180 tons of our team was wasted with an LRM40 atlas and an LRM60 Awesome. While more acceptable on the Awesome in terms of lore role between the two of them there was lurmageddon and ONE medium laser for backup (on the atlas).

It's tempting to call it cowardice but it may not be true as they spent the vast majority of the match over yonder and if i remember rightly neither of them dropped below 75-78% health. However it may not be their fault. I'm not slandering said players it's the game mechanics that's the problem as its clearly favourable to them to do this it may be that their computers are naff and have a poor frame rate in which case Lurm boats are the easiest way to play the game. A counter to this is if a mech is lobbing a large quantity of LRMs at an enemy it should be highlighted on the enemies radar for a few seconds afterwards indicating where the missiles came from. The benefit of Long range missiles is still there but at the expense of everyone knowing where they came from and so more easily counter attacked. This would discourage LRM assault mechs and encourage lighter faster mechs and so capping their LRM ability.

So i go for a flank with a YLW and me in an SRM Wolverine I take down their grasshopper and punish another then i died to witness two assault mechs hiding a kilometre away lobbing lurms.




To solve this all the enemy needed to do was do what i and the centurion did find a flanking position rush in and those 180 tons would of been useless bar pretty paper weights. Nearly every single weekend when there's a tournament on which 9/10 is damage based the lurm farmers are out in force. All it takes is a lance of fast mediums and Op lights and lurmageddon will cease to exist as those lurm assaults are busy trying to protect they're backs giving the other two lances time to push forward and mop up.

When pugs realise this i might actually spend some money on the game again to celebrate.

Edited by mad kat, 22 January 2016 - 03:05 AM.

[Wolfways]

Something that many players seem unaware of is that when you run behind cover if you hit P your mech will power down, breaking the lock, and your mech (if fast enough) will move a little as it shuts down avoiding the rest of the incoming missiles that are heading to the last place you were locked.
Not really viable for slow heavy/assault mechs though

[Barkem Squirrel]

I agree with Mad kat.

How many times am I in a Medium mech with the assaults and heavies 100 to 200 m behind me, especially on the new map, Polar highlands. Then again I like close LRM support, but this in front LRM support is fun. In a Medium mech moving swiftly getting hit and run credits, TAG stealth, and a hole bunch of other things, including Brawling rewards in a LRM boat medium.

I am thinking a 12 man Raven flock needs to get out there, just to see what can happen on polar highlands. Then listen for the rage! They will pick and peck the other team apart or make them go crazy. Then if those raven pilots have an evil streak and we know that they do, they would put one LRM 5 with a ton of ammo on the 3L's, 4X's and 2X's. That is 9 LRM 5's. Enough to really tick someone off if they work as a well coordinated flock.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 22 January 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[General Solo]

Great post
I run AMS on no mechs
Light of sight is the killer
Avoid LOS unless shooting
It helps with other situations as well
Hugging even low structures reduces damage

Keep on in learn , keep on ........(Got a song in my head)

EDit: Yeah I spam narc and lerms at times though mostly only works on people who are unware how to counter it.
Top teams/players have no problem, me thinks as Russ said the new steam guiz/grlz need some learnin
There is a counter/z go find it, I aint telling, its a war game (told u some anyway) see u out there @_@7

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 22 January 2016 - 02:07 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

mikerso, on 22 January 2016 - 01:44 AM, said:

Not necessarily. Brawl near buildings and such. You do not have to stand in the water on river city to fight.

What? That's ridiculous.

Geez, next you'll try to tell me I don't have to pound the alpha strike key until I shutdown.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

@Dave:

If I haven't said it before, let me thank you right now for all the time you put in on this forum with us, and for the GREAT job so far on the Academy!

How about this: Is there any possibility of doing MORE THAN ONE academy location? Say, the River City academy location is BASIC stuff. Another for CW-specific tactics. A third, maybe, for more in-depth public match specific stuff. Not having to load EVERYTHING on one map, I guess, is what I'm after here. Might THAT help with the memory issues, and thus, with enabling more (and more-detailed) academy content?

[m2wester]

A lot of the suggestions here include some kind of a nerf to lrms (lrm boats becoming visible when shooting them, not being able to target people out of los), which I don't think is a good answer. Simply because I don't think lrms are particularly strong as it is.

Now, I actually am a steam noob (btw, what does pug stand for?), I just recently got promoted to tier 4, so I would consider myself to be a less-than-average pilot. There are a few situations where I get caught out by lrms (too far from cover or my cover isn't good enough - those stupid rocks in the river for example are no good at all when targeted by lrms...), and those situations are extremely frustrating because you basically know in advance that damage is coming and you can't even shoot back, but more often than, it's easy to avoid most of the damage and/or reposition before the Mech is seriuosly damaged, plus compared to other weapons, it's child's play to spread the damage around your torso and arms. Also, lrms have their own additional defensive system in the AMS, which subpar pilots like me can use to further reduce the threat potencial; ECM hurts LRMs a lot more than other weapons, too, since you basically can't shoot at people you can't target. In addition, LRM-boats are pretty much helpless if you manage to close in on them - though it's hard to benefit from this in solo queue, because it would usually need some kind of a coordinated push into close range, which is kind of rare...

Bottomline: I really don't think that nerfing lrms is necessary or a good idea at all. As is, they are already situational and have lots of counters, much more than any other weapon type, which more than makes up for them being uniquely annoying when they do work. Adding something to the academy should be enough; if any changes are introduced, it shouldn't be just nerfs (I've seen an interesting idea that comines buffs with nerfs here: http://metamechs.com/articles/ [edit: direct link doesn't work because of f-word...])

Edited by m2wester, 23 January 2016 - 12:04 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

No, we needn't nerf the LRM. LRMs used to be the GODS of the battlefield, back in the 8v8 days of open beta. Then, every mech that COULD carry ECM, DID carry ECM (once it became functional). Same for AMS. And THEN, due to some crying and threats of QQ (we like to think we really do influence the game's design by being children), the LRM was nerfed. PPC pop-tart meta developed quickly, and became THE competitive tactic (MAN, did LORDS do this well when it was hot, almost two years ago). The Clan invasion hit. OMG OP NERF NAO. By the time the nerf bat hit the Clanners upside the head, the currently-receding mid-range DPS laser meta had taken root.

Feels like we're in transition again, between the laser vomit and something else. I want the LRM to have its place. It'd be nice if you'd actually see teams with a variety of loadouts, metas, supporting one another in an integrated style, each performing in its own unique role and thereby contributing to the 12-mech company's success.

Also, a winning Lotto ticket. Y'know. While I'm wishing on a star and all.

ANYHOO, the LRM is making somewhat of a comeback. Would be nice to have a more in-depth set of tutorials for the game overall, including both employing and avoiding LRMs.

[Tuann]

the most simple advice :

WATCH ... FOR... UAV's
SHOOT... THEM... DOWN... IMMEDIATLY

if you do this, then LRM's are just a weapon as any other, where you take the occasional dmg and where you use cover, move and return fire.


oh and please, for the love of all that is battlemechs, DO NOT BUILD a LURM ATLAS.
atlas is the chassis that can tank, it is a rolling monster of doom in the frontline. pretty please, cherry on top, don't slam only lrm's in it with a puny backup wapon. that is sacrilege and we all do our best to help such a poorly constructed mech out of its misery,.. after standing within 180m to pummel his friendly team into pulp while the lurm atlas pilot can only watch helplessly as his useless missles bounce of targets within 180m.

Edited by Tuann, 25 January 2016 - 12:00 AM.

[Richter Kerensky]

Step 1: walk behind something
Step 2: there is no step 2

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 25 January 2016 - 01:42 AM.

[Richard Warts]

Rushin Roulette, on 20 January 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

Dont forget. LRM players are really shy. Get up close to them and give them a reeeeeallly big hug and they are not that scary any more (or at least get within the minimum 180 meter distance ann IS LRMs bounce humorously off your mech and CLRMs deal less and less damage depending on remaining distance).

^ This. LRM problems? Close the gap.

[General Solo]

Without spotters LRM's can't lock.

So suppress the spotters aggressively, so that they turn away and lose their lock.
Shooting them aggressively in the face works well for this.

I first seen the technique in a movie called "Mech Spotting".

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 25 January 2016 - 09:59 PM.

[mikerso]

mad kat, on 22 January 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

The problem is not the lurms it's the pug mentality. By and large pugs are sheepish and cowardly, no one wants to be at the front and brawling and the Pug queue is bordering on extinction. People are far too happy sniping from the back more often than not in the mechs that should be at the forefront of a charge. Just last night 180 tons of our team was wasted with an LRM40 atlas and an LRM60 Awesome. While more acceptable on the Awesome in terms of lore role between the two of them there was lurmageddon and ONE medium laser for backup (on the atlas).

It's tempting to call it cowardice but it may not be true as they spent the vast majority of the match over yonder and if i remember rightly neither of them dropped below 75-78% health. However it may not be their fault. I'm not slandering said players it's the game mechanics that's the problem as its clearly favourable to them to do this it may be that their computers are naff and have a poor frame rate in which case Lurm boats are the easiest way to play the game. A counter to this is if a mech is lobbing a large quantity of LRMs at an enemy it should be highlighted on the enemies radar for a few seconds afterwards indicating where the missiles came from. The benefit of Long range missiles is still there but at the expense of everyone knowing where they came from and so more easily counter attacked. This would discourage LRM assault mechs and encourage lighter faster mechs and so capping their LRM ability.

So i go for a flank with a YLW and me in an SRM Wolverine I take down their grasshopper and punish another then i died to witness two assault mechs hiding a kilometre away lobbing lurms.




To solve this all the enemy needed to do was do what i and the centurion did find a flanking position rush in and those 180 tons would of been useless bar pretty paper weights. Nearly every single weekend when there's a tournament on which 9/10 is damage based the lurm farmers are out in force. All it takes is a lance of fast mediums and Op lights and lurmageddon will cease to exist as those lurm assaults are busy trying to protect they're backs giving the other two lances time to push forward and mop up.

When pugs realise this i might actually spend some money on the game again to celebrate.

Barkem Squirrel, on 22 January 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

I agree with Mad kat.

How many times am I in a Medium mech with the assaults and heavies 100 to 200 m behind me, especially on the new map, Polar highlands. Then again I like close LRM support, but this in front LRM support is fun. In a Medium mech moving swiftly getting hit and run credits, TAG stealth, and a hole bunch of other things, including Brawling rewards in a LRM boat medium.

I am thinking a 12 man Raven flock needs to get out there, just to see what can happen on polar highlands. Then listen for the rage! They will pick and peck the other team apart or make them go crazy. Then if those raven pilots have an evil streak and we know that they do, they would put one LRM 5 with a ton of ammo on the 3L's, 4X's and 2X's. That is 9 LRM 5's. Enough to really tick someone off if they work as a well coordinated flock.

Tuann, on 24 January 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

the most simple advice :

WATCH ... FOR... UAV's
SHOOT... THEM... DOWN... IMMEDIATLY

if you do this, then LRM's are just a weapon as any other, where you take the occasional dmg and where you use cover, move and return fire.


oh and please, for the love of all that is battlemechs, DO NOT BUILD a LURM ATLAS.
atlas is the chassis that can tank, it is a rolling monster of doom in the frontline. pretty please, cherry on top, don't slam only lrm's in it with a puny backup wapon. that is sacrilege and we all do our best to help such a poorly constructed mech out of its misery,.. after standing within 180m to pummel his friendly team into pulp while the lurm atlas pilot can only watch helplessly as his useless missles bounce of targets within 180m.

As much as your posts contain some good pointers for lrm avoidance. Please remember this thread is not to complain about lrm builds. It is here to give pgi training ideas, and hopefully teach new players how to neutralize those mechs.

mad kat, on 22 January 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

The problem is not the lurms it's the pug mentality. By and large pugs are sheepish and cowardly, no one wants to be at the front and brawling and the Pug queue is bordering on extinction. People are far too happy sniping from the back more often than not in the mechs that should be at the forefront of a charge. Just last night 180 tons of our team was wasted with an LRM40 atlas and an LRM60 Awesome. While more acceptable on the Awesome in terms of lore role between the two of them there was lurmageddon and ONE medium laser for backup (on the atlas).

It's tempting to call it cowardice but it may not be true as they spent the vast majority of the match over yonder and if i remember rightly neither of them dropped below 75-78% health. However it may not be their fault. I'm not slandering said players it's the game mechanics that's the problem as its clearly favourable to them to do this it may be that their computers are naff and have a poor frame rate in which case Lurm boats are the easiest way to play the game. A counter to this is if a mech is lobbing a large quantity of LRMs at an enemy it should be highlighted on the enemies radar for a few seconds afterwards indicating where the missiles came from. The benefit of Long range missiles is still there but at the expense of everyone knowing where they came from and so more easily counter attacked. This would discourage LRM assault mechs and encourage lighter faster mechs and so capping their LRM ability.

So i go for a flank with a YLW and me in an SRM Wolverine I take down their grasshopper and punish another then i died to witness two assault mechs hiding a kilometre away lobbing lurms.




To solve this all the enemy needed to do was do what i and the centurion did find a flanking position rush in and those 180 tons would of been useless bar pretty paper weights. Nearly every single weekend when there's a tournament on which 9/10 is damage based the lurm farmers are out in force. All it takes is a lance of fast mediums and Op lights and lurmageddon will cease to exist as those lurm assaults are busy trying to protect they're backs giving the other two lances time to push forward and mop up.

When pugs realise this i might actually spend some money on the game again to celebrate.

Barkem Squirrel, on 22 January 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

I agree with Mad kat.

How many times am I in a Medium mech with the assaults and heavies 100 to 200 m behind me, especially on the new map, Polar highlands. Then again I like close LRM support, but this in front LRM support is fun. In a Medium mech moving swiftly getting hit and run credits, TAG stealth, and a hole bunch of other things, including Brawling rewards in a LRM boat medium.

I am thinking a 12 man Raven flock needs to get out there, just to see what can happen on polar highlands. Then listen for the rage! They will pick and peck the other team apart or make them go crazy. Then if those raven pilots have an evil streak and we know that they do, they would put one LRM 5 with a ton of ammo on the 3L's, 4X's and 2X's. That is 9 LRM 5's. Enough to really tick someone off if they work as a well coordinated flock.

Tuann, on 24 January 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

the most simple advice :

WATCH ... FOR... UAV's
SHOOT... THEM... DOWN... IMMEDIATLY

if you do this, then LRM's are just a weapon as any other, where you take the occasional dmg and where you use cover, move and return fire.


oh and please, for the love of all that is battlemechs, DO NOT BUILD a LURM ATLAS.
atlas is the chassis that can tank, it is a rolling monster of doom in the frontline. pretty please, cherry on top, don't slam only lrm's in it with a puny backup wapon. that is sacrilege and we all do our best to help such a poorly constructed mech out of its misery,.. after standing within 180m to pummel his friendly team into pulp while the lurm atlas pilot can only watch helplessly as his useless missles bounce of targets within 180m.

As much as your posts contain some good pointers for lrm avoidance. Please remember this thread is not to complain about lrm builds. It is here to give pgi training ideas, and hopefully teach new players how to neutralize those mechs.

I apologize for the double post. My phone glitched.

[mikerso]

m2wester, on 23 January 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

A lot of the suggestions here include some kind of a nerf to lrms (lrm boats becoming visible when shooting them, not being able to target people out of los), which I don't think is a good answer. Simply because I don't think lrms are particularly strong as it is.

Now, I actually am a steam noob (btw, what does pug stand for?), I just recently got promoted to tier 4, so I would consider myself to be a less-than-average pilot. There are a few situations where I get caught out by lrms (too far from cover or my cover isn't good enough - those stupid rocks in the river for example are no good at all when targeted by lrms...), and those situations are extremely frustrating because you basically know in advance that damage is coming and you can't even shoot back, but more often than, it's easy to avoid most of the damage and/or reposition before the Mech is seriuosly damaged, plus compared to other weapons, it's child's play to spread the damage around your torso and arms. Also, lrms have their own additional defensive system in the AMS, which subpar pilots like me can use to further reduce the threat potencial; ECM hurts LRMs a lot more than other weapons, too, since you basically can't shoot at people you can't target. In addition, LRM-boats are pretty much helpless if you manage to close in on them - though it's hard to benefit from this in solo queue, because it would usually need some kind of a coordinated push into close range, which is kind of rare...

Bottomline: I really don't think that nerfing lrms is necessary or a good idea at all. As is, they are already situational and have lots of counters, much more than any other weapon type, which more than makes up for them being uniquely annoying when they do work. Adding something to the academy should be enough; if any changes are introduced, it shouldn't be just nerfs (I've seen an interesting idea that comines buffs with nerfs here: http://metamechs.com/articles/ [edit: direct link doesn't work because of f-word...])

TheRAbbi, on 24 January 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

No, we needn't nerf the LRM. LRMs used to be the GODS of the battlefield, back in the 8v8 days of open beta. Then, every mech that COULD carry ECM, DID carry ECM (once it became functional). Same for AMS. And THEN, due to some crying and threats of QQ (we like to think we really do influence the game's design by being children), the LRM was nerfed. PPC pop-tart meta developed quickly, and became THE competitive tactic (MAN, did LORDS do this well when it was hot, almost two years ago). The Clan invasion hit. OMG OP NERF NAO. By the time the nerf bat hit the Clanners upside the head, the currently-receding mid-range DPS laser meta had taken root.

Feels like we're in transition again, between the laser vomit and something else. I want the LRM to have its place. It'd be nice if you'd actually see teams with a variety of loadouts, metas, supporting one another in an integrated style, each performing in its own unique role and thereby contributing to the 12-mech company's success.

Also, a winning Lotto ticket. Y'know. While I'm wishing on a star and all.

ANYHOO, the LRM is making somewhat of a comeback. Would be nice to have a more in-depth set of tutorials for the game overall, including both employing and avoiding LRMs.

True there have been suggestions placed mentioning needing lrm's, but those players have been reminded that this is not necessarily the place for that either.

Pug = pick up game . It is used to refer to solo players.

Helping people understand how to avoid lrm barrages is the goal. And to help pgi with ideas for the player tutorial.