154 replies to this topic

[akhv]

God no, do not remove it. One of my favourite maps. Had lots of most unpredictable and memorable matches on that one.

Edited by akhv, 02 January 2016 - 05:30 AM.

[Half Ear]

I believe PGI, when redoing maps, should keep the old maps in rotation and name it as such so that, one, we have more maps to use, two, show the newer players where most of our fighting had previously been done.

I mean, it is not like they are pumping out maps.

Just to add, is there anything from keeping PGI from blocking off half the map, where the huge mountain is simply a mountain, to block off the section where Gamma is currently located D10 line to I10 to I13 section?

Do similar things with the other maps to change up where majority of the combat takes place for each map.

Edited by Half Ear, 02 January 2016 - 08:32 AM.

[Connatic]

I voted No.

If there plan is to essentially create a new huge map with the same tile set as Alpine, who cares if Alpine is gone. At least we have one to replace it. There is nothing sacred about Alpine itself...we just nee a huge map in the rotation to replace it, which we are getting.

The number of satisfying games I've had in pugs on Alpine is very small. Alpine needs very specific mech setups to be competitive. You can't get that in pugs unless you queue up in a 7 man party for some pug stomping.

If they want to mess with the geometry in their free time and bring back the map again someday, great. But for now, I'm glad to see it go.

Edited by Connatic, 02 January 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Túatha Dé Danann, on 01 January 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

but its still far away from being as good as other maps.

Sorry, what other maps? Every map that comes out or is redone, playerbase tends to focus on one or two areas ignoring the rest. It gets old. There is not one map out there where people try something new except if the moon turns Violet, the seas boil over and the Klingons invade.

River City - Fight around citadel or between Upper City & Spaceport until a few die on one side and someone moves in.
Forest Colony - Fight around G9 arch, F9 pass and rarely H9 waterline until same as above.
Canyon Network - Fight across C3/C4/D3/D4 center area between ramps until same as above.
Crimson Strait - Saddle or Tunnel fight until same as above.
Terra Therma - Pile into center, rarely flank, until same as above. Sometimes you get the fun of your whole team piling into the same entrance when you told them not to, front men stop jamming up team and costing the match. Some of these guys who stop then come here bragging how skilled they are.
Mining Collective - Always C3/C4/D3/D4 in one of 3 areas (center or sides) until same as above.
Tourmaline Desert - Southern / Western team goes F5 or F7 until same as above.
Viridian Bog - Fight at sides or center of 'islands' in the C3/C4 areas and adjacent until same as above.
Frozen City - D row team rush C4/B4 to wipe Assaults or advance on C3/B3.
HPG Manifold - Take roof, fight on and around roof, some lone wolfer goes basement.

Pretty much all maps boil down to 2-3 areas with the rest of the map ignored, even in Conquest there are still areas going unused.
Stale, unimaginative, non-skilled, non-challenging.

[mikerso]

if you truly want to save it, comment on the roadmap.

[Palor]

I voted for yes, and I hate this map more than any other map.

[Ukos]

No -

Not in general rotations - The map as it stands offers no flexibility for flanking and otherwise it is typically a whitewash when the horn is taken unless you have an ultra long range team and you fight from the tower. It encourages static and defensive play.

Put this and the other old classic maps back in for the four vs four games or for private matches not in general population rotation

[Celtic Warrior IS]

I voted yes as long as it gets some attention from the devs. It could be a really good map!

[Bagua]

Can we get blizzard-new-moon-nighttime-Alpine-Peaks please?

[Void Angel]

"A few tweaks" to Alpine aren't what it needs - it needs a rework, and is next in the queue. As they explained in the road map, the direction they went with the rework turned into a new map, which is fine; but it did delay the Alpine rework. It's not worth it to do a half-baked rework that may or may not fix Alpine just to keep the stupid broken map in rotation, so PGI is going to pull it and re-release it when it's fixed. Right now, the only purpose Alpine Peaks serves is to allow people with dedicated long-range builds to troll the rest of us.

PS: since I can just taste the "PGI ignored the community because this one poll" claims down the line, I feel that the obvious bears stating: this poll doesn't measure the opinion of any significant fraction of the player base - it simply measures the opinion of a random, non-significant sample of people who cared enough to post on a forgone conclusion. =)

[MechanicalWraith]

I'm fully in support of keeping Alpine Peaks in game as-is. Even if the map was considered generally unbalanced, there already exists a mechanism (voting) to keep it largely out of circulation for players of that opinion, the ONLY reason to totally remove it from the game would be if it was plagued by major glitches - like some other maps I could name...
To sum that all up, I'd recommend retaining Alpine Peaks in circulation and simply adding the new map to the list, and preferably focusing attention on more game-breaking issues like ballistic physics.

[Void Angel]

... So your reasoning is that keeping the broken map is ok because people can use their votes to avoid playing it - instead of to vote for the map they actually like?

[MechanicalWraith]

If someone feels so strongly about any map, then sure they can throw their votes at something else. Alpine Peaks is not a broken map because you choose to play short range DPS-oriented brawling builds, that's called being non-versatile (and even still one can maneuver to brawling range). There are actually other maps in circulation which are definitively broken, such as Frozen City, Viridian Bog, Tourmaline Desert...
I personally tend to play through the occasional match on broken (actually buggy) maps in order to save my votes for what I want to play, that's a choice.

[MW222]

Bagua, on 02 January 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Can we get blizzard-new-moon-nighttime-Alpine-Peaks please?

Snow storms, night play, white outs.

[Surn]

Alpine was up vs the new maps today and won 76% of the vote. Do I need to post the screenshot?

Alpine is not unfair, adversity breads innovation and makes the victory more compelling.

[50 50]

With the new Polar Highlands being a brand new map to be introduced, we will get another 'cold' map for the cycle.
However, I would prefer to not have Alpine Peaks removed from the list and would much prefer to see more maps added so we get even more variety.
In the end, I feel we need a decent set of maps all of the same type of biosphere so we can relate them to particular planets.
Keeping in mind the expansion of functionality in Faction Play and use of regular maps there, we start to get a much more complete system.

So if by changes to Geometry on Alpine Peaks a few extra rock outcroppings are added, the base areas get some larger buildings, add a few trees, then yes.
I personally don't believe it needs a major overhaul to the landscape.
Keep it in rotation.

In regards to the battles typically ending in certain locations, it is certainly true that there are areas on each map that have strategic advantage, there are also areas that end up being the location of the fight simply because they are about the middle of the map where the teams will collide.
However, if a team is willing to try different things, some very satisfying battles can be had in any area of the map.
On Alpine, I have enjoyed some very good battles around the bases at J5 and J12 and some interesting skirmishes across the slopes at G4.
Often a change of tactics on a map can throw your opponent off and give you a satisfying win.

See if you can organise the team to fight in these areas.
Ever fought in the water around the rock outcroppings on Forest Colony? D9, D10, and D11?
Or around the back of Viridian Bog at B6, B7 and C7?

There is nothing stopping us from fighting in any area of the maps. The trick is getting the team to agree to do it.

Edited by 50 50, 02 January 2016 - 06:23 PM.

[patataman]

Void Angel, on 02 January 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

It's not worth it to do a half-baked rework that may or may not fix Alpine just to keep the stupid broken map in rotation, so PGI is going to pull it and re-release it when it's fixed.

The january roadmap only says that alpine is going to be removed because it's "unfair". Nothing about fixing and re-releasing it, i guess everyone would be happy with a temporary removal of the map to improve it. Did Russ say that on twitter or somewhere else?

Edited by patataman, 02 January 2016 - 06:29 PM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Keep it!.

Why, LRMs need a place where, they have to dodge all the ERLL's, AC and ERPPC's. I do play LRM boats, and some people feel LRM on this map are over powered, OK if you run out in the open I will kill you by death by chain fire. Try running this map by using intervisability lines (IV lines for the non $50 work) or just behind a rise. Sure if you like to go up that hill. Sure but what if the other side has lights and 100 kph mediums up there, you will not hold the hill. Then there is we are down here come and get us, that I do not see enough. Have you ever seen a unit fall back to the hill behind I 10. Try rooting them out of there. Fighting at the bottom of the map. Fighting in the center can be fun and fast at times. It is the edges of this map where the interesting fights happen.

The conquest mode on this map can not really be beat. The one point way away from everyone and three really close to each other demands the ability to move and shoot like no other map. The first two points to be capped you are dodging shots and the next cap point is literally between them. You have to use over watch just to cap.

There are so many places to fight, why go up that hill all the time and if you are on skirmish great make them come down the hill.

This look like an alpine area or are we going to get a frozen canyon network to replace it. look at real world maps, Alaska Denali range, Canada Mackenzie range, Patagonia in south america, the Rockies, Cascades, Serra Nevada's, The admiralty mountains in Antarctica, southern alps in new zeland and maybe northern Norway. Alpine regions are large, limited movement corridors with high peaks above them.

Maybe lower that hill blocking the view to the north where the tower is. It would allow for one team to have a higher vantage point looking down on that area. Then again we will figure out a better way to exploit it, don't worry.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 02 January 2016 - 07:23 PM.

[Void Angel]

patataman, on 02 January 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

The january roadmap only says that alpine is going to be removed because it's "unfair". Nothing about fixing and re-releasing it, i guess everyone would be happy with a temporary removal of the map to improve it. Did Russ say that on twitter or somewhere else?

He said it's being removed from the rotation, not deleted or taken out of the game - so until he does say so, prior intentions stand. They might delete it for all I know - though I doubt they'd throw away all the original effort instead of modernizing it - but they haven't said they are going to do so.

[Tesunie]

Void Angel, on 02 January 2016 - 08:55 PM, said:

He said it's being removed from the rotation, not deleted or taken out of the game - so until he does say so, prior intentions stand. They might delete it for all I know - though I doubt they'd throw away all the original effort instead of modernizing it - but they haven't said they are going to do so.

Removing it from rotation is removing it from the game. We have not heard if it will, or will not, being going back into the game at some later date (with or without revisions).

I'm not saying that it may not show back up, I'm just saying that it isn't specifically mentioned if it will show back up or is being out right replaced with the new map. Without it being specifically mentioned if it's going to be coming back, I'm under the assumption that it probably wont be coming back.

Either way, it will not be an option for play once it's been removed from the game, no matter how long it is removed. I think that is the point people have here.


I personally like Alpine. A lot of tactical variation, but most players don't play any other strategy on the map. When I was able to join the Stock Mech Monday group for games, we had all sorts of nice tactics going on in the game. The mountain was practically ignored in favor of other, more powerful and more viable, locations of the map.

I also liked old Caustic Valley as well. I wished it was still in rotation, with the new "erupted" Caustic Valley being included as well. I miss the old Caustic...