122 replies to this topic

[dimachaerus]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 January 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

So in summary, they should probably tone down some of the BJ structure quirks.


Also, no offense, but a 313 dmg game isn't exactly showing any level of awesomeness.

313 damage resulting in three quick kills, is far more effective than 1250 damage resulting in none. Solely going by "moar damuge is betar!!1" is idiotic, especially if that damage doesn't result in a kill. All his 313 damage means is he aims well, and aims to kill.

Sandpit, on 11 January 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

yay
another thread talking about how PGI doesn't know how to balance things.

Don't we have enough of those already with the same people saying the same thing, just in a different thread?

With the sum total of just how MUCH they've screwed up, and how little they seem to listen unless the community as a whole literally screams it in their faces, I daresay more is better in this regard.

[Sandpit]

dimachaerus, on 11 January 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

With the sum total of just how MUCH they've screwed up, and how little they seem to listen unless the community as a whole literally screams it in their faces, I daresay more is better in this regard.

lol ok
Keep thinking that. The rest of us who don't bother buying into that rhetoric will continue having conversations with the devs and listening to them respond to our questions and feedback
repeatedly
on a regular basis
daily

[Gas Guzzler]

dimachaerus, on 11 January 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

313 damage resulting in three quick kills, is far more effective than 1250 damage resulting in none. Solely going by "moar damuge is betar!!1" is idiotic, especially if that damage doesn't result in a kill. All his 313 damage means is he aims well, and aims to kill.

Yes because LB10s and Machine guns are known for their precision accuracy and quick killing power.

[dimachaerus]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 January 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

Yes because LB10s and Machine guns are known for their precision accuracy and quick killing power.

LBX at close range refire faster, and make less heat than a standard AC, and machineguns shred what the lbx and ML's have opened up. How is this even hard to comprehend? They're all brawling weapons, and apparently he put them to good use.

[Gas Guzzler]

dimachaerus, on 11 January 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

LBX at close range refire faster, and make less heat than a standard AC, and machineguns shred what the lbx and ML's have opened up. How is this even hard to comprehend? They're all brawling weapons, and apparently he put them to good use.

Whatever, believe whatever makes you happy.

[dimachaerus]

Sandpit, on 11 January 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

lol ok
Keep thinking that. The rest of us who don't bother buying into that rhetoric will continue having conversations with the devs and listening to them respond to our questions and feedback
repeatedly
on a regular basis
daily

You must be new. The latest iteration (we're talking past six months or so) of PGI is far far faaaaaaaaar superior to how it used to be, it's almost like they're real game devs now. Almost. They still have a long way to go, and so far the only way to goad them into further improvement seems to be by incessantly hammering them about it.

[Sjorpha]

dimachaerus, on 11 January 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

313 damage resulting in three quick kills, is far more effective than 1250 damage resulting in none. Solely going by "moar damuge is betar!!1" is idiotic, especially if that damage doesn't result in a kill. All his 313 damage means is he aims well, and aims to kill.

It just means he got the last shot in on 4 mechs by spraying machine gun fire at them after other people had done all the hard work for him.

[Sandpit]

dimachaerus, on 11 January 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

313 damage resulting in three quick kills, is far more effective than 1250 damage resulting in none. Solely going by "moar damuge is betar!!1" is idiotic, especially if that damage doesn't result in a kill. All his 313 damage means is he aims well, and aims to kill.

over simplification at its best

313 and 3 "quick kills" is more effective than 1250 damage?
If you're basing effectiveness on the number of kills obtained, well all I can say is you're doing it wrong.

You take the teammate with those 3 kills, I'll take the teammate doling out 1250 damage any day of the week.

I can shoot 1 small laser and get a kill if I just sit behind a rock and wait for the rest of the team to deal 300 damage to that mech.

For any new players that might be reading, kills are not a great metric to use in determining battle effectiveness. If you want to know how you're stacking up, take the amount of damage you obtain and divide it by the number of mechs you shot at.
1250/12 mechs isn't spectacular although it definitely helps the rest of your team in that you're doing a decent amount of damage across the entire enemy team's mechs. Whether or not you're the "lucky" one that gets that final kill shot is completely irrelevant to how "effective" you were.

Just my .002 regarding the importance of kills, KDR, etc. in MWO. They just aren't important and have nothing to do with an individual player's skill. I can run around in a Spider and get 150 damage in a match and zero kills and maybe 3-4 assists.

On the surface, those stats don't look like much, but when you consider the mech and the role I often fill with it, it changes the metric. If I provided my assault lance with ECM to advance into their brawling range to take out the enemy force, or I run through and pop a UAV over the main enemy force so that my lurm support can light them up and chew them up while the brawlers advance, or I skirt and flank to step on the base to get 2-3 enemy mechs to abandon the front line in order to chase me, or I run through the enemy formation causing them to panic and shoot one another with friendly fire, or I get 5 derps to chase me halfway around the map while my other 11 teammates now have almost a 2to1 advantage in the main battle then those stats regarding kills and damage are completely pointless.

Oh, and by filling those types of roles and doing that, the cbill earnings are still on par with what I would earn by dealing out 400 damage and a kill or two more often than not.

dimachaerus, on 11 January 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

You must be new. .

you must be someone who speaks from very ignorant stances

dimachaerus, on 11 January 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

the only way to goad them into further improvement seems to be by incessantly hammering them about it.

since you apparently missed it the first time...

Sandpit, on 11 January 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

lol ok
Keep thinking that. The rest of us who don't bother buying into that rhetoric will continue having conversations with the devs and listening to them respond to our questions and feedback
repeatedly
on a regular basis
daily

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 January 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

So in summary, they should probably tone down some of the BJ structure quirks.


Also, no offense, but a 313 dmg game isn't exactly showing any level of awesomeness.

I've been enjoying the Arrow. Not the best robot to Carry, because the PoorDub and being a Medium...but some matches just turn out right. Structure being an important part of that.

Other times, override-overheating or a Strike instantly Crits half your lasers out, and you're rendered worse than a LOLcust...but those first times:



http://imgur.com/a/KmANQ
The group queue is so random...

They make the SadCat sad. I do HATE the leg structure quirks though...I don't want extra fall damage.

#PGIPLZ, armour quirks

Edited by Mcgral18, 11 January 2016 - 11:54 PM.

[Wintersdark]

dimachaerus, on 11 January 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

You must be new. The latest iteration (we're talking past six months or so) of PGI is far far faaaaaaaaar superior to how it used to be, it's almost like they're real game devs now. Almost. They still have a long way to go, and so far the only way to goad them into further improvement seems to be by incessantly hammering them about it.

To Sandpit? Sandpit of all people? This is hilarious.

[Widowmaker1981]

Aresye Kerensky, on 07 January 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

Have you tried the 3 LPL build on it? The energy heat quirks keeps it running fairly cool, and the energy range quirks give you quite a bit of reach. No laser duration quirks, but let's be honest, the LPL doesn't need any help with duration.

I ran the BJ-3 with 2 ERPPCs for PTS4, and for a couple days after the patch went live, but as soon as I stuck 3 LPL on its right side instead, it went from, "annoying 20 ppfld poptarting gnat," to, "holy amazeballs batman, this thing is a freaking monster!"

Tbh, i think the BJ-3 is for PPCs or ERPPCs, If i want to run 3xLPL the BJ-1X has really nice acc/dec quirks for poking, a decent engine cap so you can run a 255, and only misses 10% energy range from quirks.. JJs are missing but not as useful for LPLs as they are for PPCs... just can't justify ignoring that extra 20% heat gen quirk and the velocity.

[Khobai]

Quote

The AC/2 for the longest time had a higher DPS than any other AC save the AC/20, due to it having gotten a 20x increase in rate of fire.

Whys that a problem? The AC/2 spreads damage around like crazy. While the AC/20 puts it all in the same location. The AC/20 was still the far deadlier weapon even when it did lower DPS.

DPS isnt the only statistic that matters. How spread out the damage is matters too. The whole reason the AC/2 is such a bad weapon, despite its high rate of fire, is because how much it spreads out damage.

Edited by Khobai, 12 January 2016 - 02:22 AM.

[DivineEvil]

Like I've always said, I'd be fine if all IS mechs had double internal structure. This would counter the technological superiority of Clan mechs, thus on top of it both IS and Clans could be quirked for extra armor, weapon and mobility on equal terms, accounting for balance and diversity for both sides. Something much more satisfying, than seeing random power-creep quirks on IS mechs and almost none on Clan side.

From current standpoint still, these structure buffs seem much more desired for utterly pathetic Vindicators.

[ThornScythe]

Ok let me get this Straight, for what I can read around here and some post around the forums.

Clan showed up screwed balance (should happen cause of lore), so the solution to undo this was insert quirks on IS mechs, but now is out of hand cause everything is unbalanced and when they try to compensate a unusable mech it screws up other mechs in existence. Also scales from mechs are not following the lore of TT and creating issues,

Now it seems like a good solution would be the clean state practice, remove all the quirks and but balance again in order in one go. This would require to stop doing new mechs redesign the ones that are not to scale. This has the huge draw back of money income for the dev team.

If the problem is just clan being OP (witch I don't see in the game has it is) why simple not give better rewards in CW for IS factions giving reasons for players to actually play those instead of clans.

[Khobai]

Quote

Like I've always said, I'd be fine if all IS mechs had double internal structure.

of course someone who doesnt play clans would be fine with that.

but thats incredibly unbalanced. IS mechs shouldnt have anymore structure than clan mechs period.

there should be no clan technology advantage either. The moment PGI decided IS vs Clan was going to be 12v12 the clan technology advantage shouldve been thrown out. The Clan and IS tech bases shouldve been made equal but different rather than trying to balance the IS side of things with absurd quirks.

The whole problem with the superquirks is that they make the game stupidly lopsided because now we have medium mechs like the blackjack with the survivability of assaults. Its just an asinine way to balance the game.

Edited by Khobai, 12 January 2016 - 03:32 AM.

[Inflatable Fish]

Wintersdark, on 07 January 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

I certainly don't begrude IS mechs more sturdiness, but I find it absurd that the Blackjack is such a monsterous tank, able to withstand more fire than a King Crab while the Vindicator is still one of the worst mechs in the game. The Blackjack was decent before quirks. Why did it get god-quirks and the Vindi nothing?

you are my favourite person of January 2016.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Can the Vindicator get some of that structure buffing for its CT?

While we are at it, the addition of PPC velocity buffs for the St. Ives Blue (even if it only 30%, just something).

[DivineEvil]

Khobai, on 12 January 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

of course someone who doesnt play clans would be fine with that.

but thats incredibly unbalanced. IS mechs shouldnt have anymore structure than clan mechs period.

Why? It's a common idea of something having higher returns for higher price and different sides having different features. Why is the structure is somehow a forbidden topic in balancing?

Quote

there should be no clan technology advantage either. The moment PGI decided IS vs Clan was going to be 12v12 the clan technology advantage shouldve been thrown out. The Clan and IS tech bases shouldve been made equal but different rather than trying to balance the IS side of things with absurd quirks.

Clans are in the game for a year. Suggesting the equalization of Clan tech to IS is just as silly as arguing for removal of Clan mechs altogether. You suggest how IS and Clan tech bases could be made equal but different, yet you have no clue how to do that, and PGI are using quirks trying to achieve just that.

Quote

The whole problem with the superquirks is that they make the game stupidly lopsided because now we have medium mechs like the blackjack with the survivability of assaults. Its just an asinine way to balance the game.

Assaults has double the amount of armor to compensate for that, and some of them also has additional structure. The values themselves are not making BJ unkillable to any degree of imagination, but additional mobility and weapon quirks is what make a balance lopsided. Also, it makes it lopsided all in the wrong places. BJ is just a most clear example of a mech, that never deserved the stuff it have got.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mcgral18, on 11 January 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

I've been enjoying the Arrow. Not the best robot to Carry, because the PoorDub and being a Medium...but some matches just turn out right. Structure being an important part of that.

Other times, override-overheating or a Strike instantly Crits half your lasers out, and you're rendered worse than a LOLcust...but those first times:



http://imgur.com/a/KmANQ
The group queue is so random...

They make the SadCat sad. I do HATE the leg structure quirks though...I don't want extra fall damage.

#PGIPLZ, armour quirks

Yeah it is random, I just found it funny that a 300 damage game was used as evidence of awesomeness.

And yeah the fall damage thing needs to be reworked if that is how it actually works.

Have we had confirmation that it is based off of the quirked structure and not the unquirked structure?

Clutch game, BTW

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 January 2016 - 08:26 AM.

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

Have we had confirmation that it is based off of the quirked structure and not the unquirked structure?

It is. You missed those convos.