778 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Ghogiel, on 16 January 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

Nothing will change, except they the players I am clubbing won't have the evil premade excuse.

No they will have the your all unit less alts using VPNs to stomp pugs excuse as outlined in another thread.

[Hotthedd]

Mystere, on 16 January 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

I'm going to have to vehemently object. This is the reason why MWO has so many problems in the first place. It's all band-aids and duct tape instead of solid and well though out designs.

Once again, what are needed are innovative game modes that soften the blow for new players, either directly in CW itself, or indirectly in the public solo queue or Training Academy. The described 4x4 CW mode looks like something in the right direction.

On the other hand, forced player separation and matchmakers are nothing but knee-jerk and ultimately unimaginative solutions. Not only do they not solve the problem, they also turn CW away from what it should be. CW should be a quasi simulation of war, not eSports. If people want the latter, go ask for a separate Solaris mode.

CW as of today is nothing but a mere skeleton. There is no immersion or depth in it. It only has 2 game modes and a few maps. We need more game modes. We need more maps suitable for the game modes they are used in. We need a real planetary campaign system instead of this silly "Take 7 or more slices in a 13-slice pie for the win!" thingy we have now.

This 100%

The thing that I have come to realize is that WE are the crazy people. Expecting anything else from PGI after all this time proves it.

[Mystere]

Hotthedd, on 16 January 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

This 100%

The thing that I have come to realize is that WE are the crazy people. Expecting anything else from PGI after all this time proves it.

Oh well, I and everyone around me already know I am crazy, so ...

[Ghogiel]

DV McKenna, on 16 January 2016 - 05:50 AM, said:

No they will have the your all unit less alts using VPNs to stomp pugs excuse as outlined in another thread.

Oh noes the EvilVPN™

[JaxRiot]

Wintersdark, on 15 January 2016 - 10:37 PM, said:

I really hate how we can never discuss anything without it becoming personal.

Even the most valiant efforts here have failed utterly, with people coming out of the woodwork to demonize and blame.

I don't blame PGI for abandoning all hope of getting useful feedback from these forums. Not at all.

It's sad, because there ARE great ideas here - lots. Mischief and Sandpit both have presented/linked to quite a few good ideas, but no.

There can't be a good discussion about how to fix the problem, it always has to be about how everyone in a unit is a big bad boogieman who only enjoys ruining someone else's fun, or how some solo player is just trashing the game because he thinks teamwork is the devil.

God damnit.

[/rant]

Well to be fair, its hard to look at a thread like this one and think it represents the community as a whole

I mean, its dominated by the same 4 or 5 people.

The same people are posting multiple times per page. Ive seen one person posting up to 8 times per page on a bunch of pages saying the same thing over and over.

So how can PGI look at this thread in particular and think its anything more than a handful of players having a tantrum and take it seriously?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Fen Tetsudo, on 16 January 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

Its not that PGI is stupid

history disagrees

[Reza Malin]

Ghogiel, on 16 January 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

Nothing will change, except they the players I am clubbing won't have the evil premade excuse.

Yawn. Another person who only really seems to comment for the purpose of insinuating how badass he is, or so it seems. Ok we get it, you apparently kill lots of people in CW. Well done you.

So as you haven't actually made any distinction, lets get to the real point. Will you be solo dropping or finding a way to circumvent the division between solo players and players in a unit, and drop with a group against PUGS?

If its the former, then fair play to you sir, club away and bathe in the glory that brings. If people complain, thats their problem as they cry tears of woe at your awesome Mech piloting skills while you stride around the battlefield dispatching dudes at will. All on your own.

However if its the latter, then no one really gives a flying f**k as you would just be another scrub that struggles to respect other players and how they wish to play the game. Instead, merely enjoys killing new or inexperienced players with other like minded sad acts, and then making out they are great pilots because of it.

I make no judgement as to which bracket you fall in, just making the point. In CW, yes, pugs get wrecked a lot of the time. That doesn't make them stupid or ******** as some here appear to think. It doesn't even make them bad at teamwork. It just usually means they aren't talking to each other.

There are a few exceptional units out there, and they rightly deserve a wary respect for their group skill. Then there are a lot of units, where the only difference between a lot of their members and your average solo player is a microphone with 11 other pilots listening and speaking to them.

Each to their own, but what pisses on my chips is when some of these players make out like they are pure soul sucking badasses, when in fact its the teamwork that is the force multiplier that enables them to win so soundly. Nothing at all wrong with taking pride in that either. However, there is also nothing wrong with remembering that it doesn't make you personally into Billy Big Bollocks, the living embodiement of noob death, and that you can also be somewhat respectful in victory.

After all, anyone who is anyone in this game knows there is nothing satisfying in this game about smashing pugs. Only bad players take pleasure in it, because they know otherwise they could be on the receiving end themselves if everything was equal, including VOIP. Thats the deep fear i see in some of these posts. That basically, when all is equal 12 v 12, some teams wont win as much without the pug group buffer, and so they might get a little upset when they are the ones getting stomped for a change by some of those few exceptional teams we mentioned earlier. Sad face......lol.

Edited by Fade Akira, 16 January 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[EgoSlayer]

Fade Akira, on 16 January 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

Yawn. Another person who only really seems to comment for the purpose of insinuating how badass he is, or so it seems. Ok we get it, you apparently kill lots of people in CW. Well done you.

So as you haven't actually made any distinction, lets get to the real point. Will you be solo dropping or finding a way to circumvent the division between solo players and players in a unit, and drop with a group against PUGS?

<snip>

What he is saying is go look at the group cue now - plenty of untagged non-unit players playing there. Go look at the house team speak players and look at the members of the CW groups there - plenty of non-unit players there as well. Just because they are not in a unit doesn't mean they are new and that they don't form groups.

These same players are still going to be forming up and doing pre-mades up to 12 mans, all completely without a unit and are going to be running in the non-unit queue.

CN: The non-unit queue isn't the new player queue. Its the non-unit queue which still contains a lot of skilled players who have no problem creating groups and using teamspeak hubs. Nothing nefarious or snarky. Just that if yours and other's expectations is that the non-unit queue is going to be a bunch of un-grouped solo players you are setting yourself up for a let down.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 16 January 2016 - 08:32 AM.

[Reza Malin]

EgoSlayer, on 16 January 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

What he is saying is go look at the group cue now - plenty of untagged non-unit players playing there. Go look at the house team speak players and look at the members of the CW groups there - plenty of non-unit players there as well. Just because they are not in a unit doesn't mean they are new and that they don't form groups.

These same players are still going to be forming up and doing pre-mades up to 12 mans, all completely without a unit and are going to be running in the non-unit queue.

CN: The non-unit queue isn't the new player queue. Its the non-unit queue which still contains a lot of skilled players who have no problem creating groups and using teamspeak hubs. Nothing nefarious or snarky. Just that if yours and other's expectations is that the non-unit queue is going to be a bunch of un-grouped solo players you are setting yourself up for a let down.

I like your name btw.

Firstly, i yield your point there somewhat. However i don't always drop solo. I rarely do in fact for CW itself because its just not fun, but i would like to be able to if i want. If people not in a unit, group up then so be it. That cant be helped. It is what it is. However if it means that if i drop solo i will no longer see a wall of identical symbols and unit tags, along with a myriad of veiled or not so veiled trash talk then ill be content.

I think we can all probably agree, It would take a certain type of player/s to drop their unit tags for the sole purpose of hoping to come up against and killing, solo players/new players in the non unit queue. However yes, that does still leave non unit skilled players making groups. Its still an improvement though, thats the point.

While it is as you say, there are going to grouped non unit players, i would daresay the majority of non unit CW players are still ungrouped and often less experienced, and there is nothing cool about destroying them without a fighting chance.

Edited by Fade Akira, 16 January 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Fade Akira, on 16 January 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

Yawn. Another person who only really seems to comment for the purpose of insinuating how badass he is, or so it seems. Ok we get it, you apparently kill lots of people in CW. Well done you.

So as you haven't actually made any distinction, lets get to the real point. Will you be solo dropping or finding a way to circumvent the division between solo players and players in a unit, and drop with a group against PUGS?

If its the former, then fair play to you sir, club away and bathe in the glory that brings. If people complain, thats their problem as they cry tears of woe at your awesome Mech piloting skills while you stride around the battlefield dispatching dudes at will. All on your own.

However if its the latter, then no one really gives a flying f**k as you would just be another scrub that struggles to respect other players and how they wish to play the game. Instead, merely enjoys killing new or inexperienced players with other like minded sad acts, and then making out they are great pilots because of it.

I make no judgement as to which bracket you fall in, just making the point. In CW, yes, pugs get wrecked a lot of the time. That doesn't make them stupid or ******** as some here appear to think. It doesn't even make them bad at teamwork. It just usually means they aren't talking to each other.

There are a few exceptional units out there, and they rightly deserve a wary respect for their group skill. Then there are a lot of units, where the only difference between a lot of their members and your average solo player is a microphone with 11 other pilots listening and speaking to them.

Each to their own, but what pisses on my chips is when some of these players make out like they are pure soul sucking badasses, when in fact its the teamwork that is the force multiplier that enables them to win so soundly. Nothing at all wrong with taking pride in that either. However, there is also nothing wrong with remembering that it doesn't make you personally into Billy Big Bollocks, the living embodiement of noob death, and that you can also be somewhat respectful in victory.

After all, anyone who is anyone in this game knows there is nothing satisfying in this game about smashing pugs. Only bad players take pleasure in it, because they know otherwise they could be on the receiving end themselves if everything was equal, including VOIP. Thats the deep fear i see in some of these posts. That basically, when all is equal 12 v 12, some teams wont win as much without the pug group buffer, and so they might get a little upset when they are the ones getting stomped for a change by some of those few exceptional teams we mentioned earlier. Sad face......lol.

It doesn't matter where I play. I still club all day and daily. It's not exactly hard, most of the player base is terrible at this game. I 99% solo in CW. Only Odin farms CW from my unit. Queue split doesn't change anything in CW, there still won't be a MM.

I won't be hurting for people to play with in uber groups. Which is what I expect to form much more frequently because playing solo and not being top shelf player is the new trial mech player who is going to get farmed.

[Mystere]

JaxRiot, on 16 January 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:

The same people are posting multiple times per page. Ive seen one person posting up to 8 times per page on a bunch of pages saying the same thing over and over.

Some people require repetition to learn and understand what they are being taught.

Edited by Mystere, 16 January 2016 - 09:48 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

EgoSlayer, on 16 January 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

What he is saying is go look at the group cue now - plenty of untagged non-unit players playing there. Go look at the house team speak players and look at the members of the CW groups there - plenty of non-unit players there as well. Just because they are not in a unit doesn't mean they are new and that they don't form groups.

These same players are still going to be forming up and doing pre-mades up to 12 mans, all completely without a unit and are going to be running in the non-unit queue.

CN: The non-unit queue isn't the new player queue. Its the non-unit queue which still contains a lot of skilled players who have no problem creating groups and using teamspeak hubs. Nothing nefarious or snarky. Just that if yours and other's expectations is that the non-unit queue is going to be a bunch of un-grouped solo players you are setting yourself up for a let down.

Your point does kind of lead all the way in a circle back to the original bone of contention though, the elepahnt in the room that is seemingly force-cloaked to 99% of the pro solo brigade:

Online multiplayer game is best done WITH other players. Unless PGI somehow finds a magical way to make sure all 24 players are all solo and don't use ingame voip and text chat...TEAMWORK will still be stomping pugs.
If people are going to log onto a multiplayer online game, with the intention of playing 100% solo like it's a singleplayer game, they are going to get roflstomped much more often than not. That is a 100% immutable, FACT.
That losing isn't:
Down to PGI
Down to evil premades
Down to op mechs
Down to bad maps
Down to bad <insert random excuse here>

It's down to that player's personal choice to not teamwork/socialize/network.

I just wish that all the logic dodging and circle strafing of the core issue would just be admitted. that way maybe PGI could sort something out for these people, heck maybe even we could come up with something viable?
But whilst these players deflect the responsibility away from themselves, it's never going to get solved and the game is bleeding from the open wound.

[Mystere]

Fade Akira, on 16 January 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

I think we can all probably agree, It would take a certain type of player/s to drop their unit tags for the sole purpose of hoping to come up against and killing, solo players/new players in the non unit queue. However yes, that does still leave non unit skilled players making groups. Its still an improvement though, thats the point.

I disagree about the CW solo/untagged queue being an improvement. It will become a place where you know where the new players are. As such, it can potentially be a bloodbath there.

As such, I still maintain that creating a set of more imaginative game modes that soften the blow on new players is a better solution. Yes, it requires quite a bit of creativity and imagination on PGI's part. But eventually, they need to step up to the plate.

As for those who simply refuse to play as part of a team in CW, leaving them to die beside the gutter is the best option.

Edited by Mystere, 16 January 2016 - 09:59 AM.

[JaxRiot]

EgoSlayer, on 16 January 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

What he is saying is go look at the group cue now - plenty of untagged non-unit players playing there. Go look at the house team speak players and look at the members of the CW groups there - plenty of non-unit players there as well. Just because they are not in a unit doesn't mean they are new and that they don't form groups.

These same players are still going to be forming up and doing pre-mades up to 12 mans, all completely without a unit and are going to be running in the non-unit queue.

CN: The non-unit queue isn't the new player queue. Its the non-unit queue which still contains a lot of skilled players who have no problem creating groups and using teamspeak hubs. Nothing nefarious or snarky. Just that if yours and other's expectations is that the non-unit queue is going to be a bunch of un-grouped solo players you are setting yourself up for a let down.

Are we sure about that though?

Im not saying you are wrong, but Russ said specifically that there was going to be a Solo Que

Would groups be even able to drop in a Solo Que?

I have a suspicion that the pug que is going to be a solo que only

I could be wrong though

[MischiefSC]

Ghogiel, on 16 January 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Oh noes the EvilVPN™

PGI already allows alts. Ghost VPN confirmed MWO content.

THANKS OBAMA!

[mania3c]

Quote

CW as of today is nothing but a mere skeleton. There is no immersion or depth in it. It only has 2 game modes and a few maps. We need more game modes. We need more maps suitable for the game modes they are used in. We need a real planetary campaign system instead of this silly "Take 7 or more slices in a 13-slice pie for the win!" thingy we have now.

It's not I disagree with you..but first and foremost CW needs to keep players interested. I am all for different maps and modes however putting tons of exclusive modes inside CW wont hold players in. It is not 1995, when playing online was privilege.

Keeping CW hardcore only with tons of different content will just cause another shrinking of playerbase. There has to be some way to make CW fun for non-hardcore crowd. No..you can't force them to join units or clans, nor you can them force to use voice chat. These groups just exists (and it is majority of players)and either PGI(and all of us) will accept it and understand, that game has to cater to these people, which may and will help to create solid hardcore playerbase, or CW is pretty much doomed.

[Sandpit]

Fade Akira, on 16 January 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

This guy gets it. 100%.

I think a good tell for the pug-stomp-lovers-professing-to-be-hardcore pilots, is constant reference to the following:

Feeding puppies into a woodchipper
Seal clubbing
Being a shark
Being a piranha
All PUG players being bad

This kind of talk in itself shows the lack of respect necessary for these kinds of people to then go out of their way killing newer and more inexperienced pilots, in order to boost their ego.

The funny thing is, i have seen lots of people like this in the game over the years. But when you take away their unit all focus firing pugs into oblivion and slapping each other on the backs about their pug smash damage numbers when all they ever drive is a dire wolf or timber wolf, many of them aren't all that on their own.

I find it funny that one of the guys that "liked" your post then immediately goes two posts down and says something silly like

Fen Tetsudo, on 16 January 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

T3s too. CW should only be T1 and T2, and only units that have a .500+ win rate in leagues like MRBC.

Yea, I agree, it's very easy to stpot the true colors and opinions of others if you just actually read what they say once in a while

JaxRiot, on 16 January 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

Are we sure about that though?

Im not saying you are wrong, but Russ said specifically that there was going to be a Solo Que

Would groups be even able to drop in a Solo Que?

I have a suspicion that the pug que is going to be a solo que only

I could be wrong though

I thought the same thing, apparently I was wrong, It's a unit queue, not a group queue

so again, you guys without tags have fun fending off the griefers and roflstompers and such by yourself. Those with tags can't drop with you anymore. You have fun getting rolled up by tagless dedicated 12mans

[Jon Gotham]

JaxRiot, on 16 January 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

Are we sure about that though?

Im not saying you are wrong, but Russ said specifically that there was going to be a Solo Que

Would groups be even able to drop in a Solo Que?

I have a suspicion that the pug que is going to be a solo que only

I could be wrong though

So friends without units can't play together anymore? What if they are say, 3 strong and aren't that great at the game and don't fancy squaring off vs 228 or the like...this means they are boned.
If that is so, they really are saying grouping is secondary. Because this only screws casual small groups even more....are they supposed to sync drop now?

This next town hall is going to need to have all the answers as even if 10% of playerbase is put off by this that could be a ton of money..I'm a fairly extreme example but you'd need around 7 new players each spending $14 per month to just replace me. Now imagine I have 4 friends and we all quit....that's 28 new people to replace us.
If this causes casual groupers to be put off-this could be bad news for the game...I've never had small groups be punished in any other game of this type I have played in the last 10 years!

I agree something needs to be done to keep MWO going but I'm still not sure this is it. I'd have preferred premades to be limited to 4 over yet another solo queue....and that's speaking as a group player.
Just remember, people need hooks/reasons to keep playing once pokemech goes stale, PGI can't release mechs for ever...maybe they should have put thought into that rather than listening to a very vocal part of the playerbase.
A whole raft of stuff they shuold have done for in game UI etc...social tools...etc..but instead they choose to fragment the playerbase more...
Long term this worries me...i've put a LOT of cash into this game over past 2 years and don't want to lose it....

[Mystere]

mania3c, on 16 January 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

It's not I disagree with you..but first and foremost CW needs to keep players interested. I am all for different maps and modes however putting tons of exclusive modes inside CW wont hold players in. It is not 1995, when playing online was privilege.

Keeping CW hardcore only with tons of different content will just cause another shrinking of playerbase. There has to be some way to make CW fun for non-hardcore crowd. No..you can't force them to join units or clans, nor you can them force to use voice chat. These groups just exists (and it is majority of players)and either PGI(and all of us) will accept it and understand, that game has to cater to these people, which may and will help to create solid hardcore playerbase, or CW is pretty much doomed.

It was right there in the same post you were responding to.

Mystere, on 16 January 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

Once again, what are needed are innovative game modes that soften the blow for new players, either directly in CW itself, or indirectly in the public solo queue or Training Academy. The described 4x4 CW mode looks like something in the right direction.

Edited by Mystere, 16 January 2016 - 02:05 PM.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 16 January 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

It was right there in the same post you were responding to.

Extend cadet bonus period
Make cadet period and training ground completion mandatory for CW participation
Give new players xx cbills to buy a couple of mechs and 1 free mech bay AND mech upon graduating the cadet period

Goes a lot further to helping new players than forcing them to drop in queues with nothing but players who want to prey on them for easy wins.