778 replies to this topic

[Jon Gotham]

Bonger Bob, on 20 January 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

some would rate it more as opening up options for solo's that are largely neglected. If enough players want it, there is demand for it. And it's not based around punishing groups, its about adding more options.

if friends want to and do regularly group and game together, that's what unit's are for.

I'm agahst to be honest at this thread and the points of view behind it, the reality of the situation as the mode is currently designed is:

Game mode is created for play type "A"
Player who likes play type "C" decides to try. Gets stomped.
<normal human here would self reflect and realise type C play fails in a type A mode>
People advise player to try play type "A" to be more succesful.
Player refuses to do so because "reasons"
Player tries again, and is stomped again. Still refuses type "A" play.
Player goes onto forums and complains about other players who use type "A" play in the type "A" mode.
Player is unhappy and demands mode is changed from "A" to "C" type play, because there are "more of him, the type C."

Sorry but that's what it is. Now, maybe the type "A" mode should have never been made in the first place as most of the players are the type "C."-I just wish I knew this was going to be a type "C" game BEFORE I funneled in excess of $3000 in to it.
You say this is about expanding people's options but the people themselves limited thier options in the first instance. It won't expand MY options-it will NARROW them. Now you tell me, is narrowing my options so you can expand yours fair? I drop solo too most of the time but I won't be able to now...when I drop solo I'll be forced to face premades nearly ALL the time. Why is me solo different to you solo?
You are entirely correct it is insane and crazy.

In the prosolos have won, they have gotten what they wanted CW will be turned into solo Q v2. Our "minority" will have to suffer whatever consequences that entails. Which is galling to the extreme when you consider we have been working around it as you said for years. It feels like alll our efforts are wasted when people just spit in your face when you offer the olive branch to them.
I feel like the time I spent over xmas getting people into Kurita's TS was wasted as I won't be able to keep doing it, thanks to banning me from dropping solo with a TAG on. That won't prevent synch dropping at all either, just make it awkward for people like me to try to point others towards the community for their faction.
It's just an awkward mess of a "solution" to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place!

The problem being the player's own attitude towards team play.

Anyway I'm done, this isn't constructive and we'll have to see if Russ and Co can salvage this into something that's going to actually work for the community.......though I doubt it from what I've read.

[Bonger Bob]

kamiko kross, on 20 January 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

I'm agahst to be honest at this thread and the points of view behind it, the reality of the situation as the mode is currently designed is:

Game mode is created for play type "A"
Player who likes play type "C" decides to try. Gets stomped.
<normal human here would self reflect and realise type C play fails in a type A mode>
People advise player to try play type "A" to be more succesful.
Player refuses to do so because "reasons"
Player tries again, and is stomped again. Still refuses type "A" play.
Player goes onto forums and complains about other players who use type "A" play in the type "A" mode.
Player is unhappy and demands mode is changed from "A" to "C" type play, because there are "more of him, the type C."

no one is complaining about your type "A" player using your type "A" game-play in your type "A" mode. They are complaining at your type "A" players being paired against type "C". Some of the type "A" players are complaining about facing type "C" players. This is because type "C" wants to access the game mode you refer to as type "A", and they will continue to do so until it is either locked out from them or they have a separate que. No amount of advising player type "C" to play as type "A" is going to make them do so ( especially when the game is not structured around doing so ), all they are doing is seeing the 50%+ content that CW represents being just an alternate drop mode with different maps and objectives in a very narrow and thin game.

Player type "C" is not asking for your type "A" mode to be turned into type "C" mode exclusively, far from it. I challenge you to find a single comment ANYWHERE here in this thread or other threads that has a type "C" player asking for CW to be locked out from units/groups and turned into a solo only que. The only thing they've asked for is to have separation from your type "A" mode, without being locked out of the game content it is attracting people with.

Your type "A" player IS demanding that they don't lose access to rounds against the type "C" players, and seem to have great issue with possibly being only matched against similar type "A" players. Some type "A" players even go so far as to cite the money they have spent to date along with them having helped turn the mode into type "A" play where PGI has failed to do so, gives them an entitlement to keep this content exclusive to themselves. Some type "A" players prefer to go up against type "C" players while trying to say they are type "C" players themselves.

when PGI make playing type "A" actually a part of the game client that's not just a vanity tag, you might find more players willing to do so. But while they leave it open, and the lack of content in the game otherwise continues, its going to draw in type "C" players. Even if they do make it more type "A" play conducive, there will still be a limited number of type "C" people who will not conform anyway, and who cares if you never have to play a round against them.

kamiko kross, on 20 January 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

Sorry but that's what it is. Now, maybe the type "A" mode should have never been made in the first place as most of the players are the type "C."-I just wish I knew this was going to be a type "C" game BEFORE I funneled in excess of $3000 in to it.
You say this is about expanding people's options but the people themselves limited thier options in the first instance. It won't expand MY options-it will NARROW them. Now you tell me, is narrowing my options so you can expand yours fair? I drop solo too most of the time but I won't be able to now...when I drop solo I'll be forced to face premades nearly ALL the time. Why is me solo different to you solo?
You are entirely correct it is insane and crazy.

You will still be able to drop solo as unit tagged player, you will be grouped with your type "A" player accordingly. Equally if you want to be a type "C" player, you can drop your vanity tag and do so. You have a choice for either type of play as a solo.

kamiko kross, on 20 January 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

In the prosolos have won, they have gotten what they wanted CW will be turned into solo Q v2. Our "minority" will have to suffer whatever consequences that entails. Which is galling to the extreme when you consider we have been working around it as you said for years. It feels like alll our efforts are wasted when people just spit in your face when you offer the olive branch to them.
I feel like the time I spent over xmas getting people into Kurita's TS was wasted as I won't be able to keep doing it, thanks to banning me from dropping solo with a TAG on. That won't prevent synch dropping at all either, just make it awkward for people like me to try to point others towards the community for their faction.
It's just an awkward mess of a "solution" to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place!

The problem being the player's own attitude towards team play.

Anyway I'm done, this isn't constructive and we'll have to see if Russ and Co can salvage this into something that's going to actually work for the community.......though I doubt it from what I've read.

I love how in one section you claim your the majority, then the next you claim the your the minority. It's brilliance like this that only works to make your post appear as entitlement tripe.

I can understand your feeling burnt by PGI's lack of team building tools in the game, the lack of lobby functions etc related to team and factions is also disgusting.

what i don't understand and can't empathize with is your lack of correct direction for that frustration and anger.

PGI haven't done squat to foster an environment where units / groups are something better to be in, they are just tags. PGI haven't made made forming a unit / group very user friendly, THEY left it for the community to fund and support. PGI haven't made a mode where team play is any more beneficial than it is in quick play. PGI haven't made a campaign with any level of depth or influence to distinguish units/groups over solo's. PGI haven't done a thing to expand to the mode other than dressing it up with a pretty planetary map that resets and holds zero value in game due to the free for all nature of the mode.

lots of things PGI haven't done to make it your dream end game mode, lots of things PGI haven't done with respect to game content that is going to continue to draw any player type into it. Lots of blame and misplaced anger at the feet of BOTH player types as a result of PGI failing in so many respects.

[Sandpit]

Bonger Bob, on 20 January 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

I love how in one section you claim your the majority, then the next you claim the your the minority. It's brilliance like this that only works to make your post appear as entitlement tripe.

you should really take an english course, or something. That's not a shot at you. You are just completely misrepresenting what he said through either ignorance or intention.

That's why he said "minority" instead of minority.

YOu gotta stop with that kind of stuff if you want others to take you seriously.

[spectralthundr]

Bonger Bob, on 20 January 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

no one is complaining about your type "A" player using your type "A" game-play in your type "A" mode. They are complaining at your type "A" players being paired against type "C". Some of the type "A" players are complaining about facing type "C" players. This is because type "C" wants to access the game mode you refer to as type "A", and they will continue to do so until it is either locked out from them or they have a separate que. No amount of advising player type "C" to play as type "A" is going to make them do so ( especially when the game is not structured around doing so ), all they are doing is seeing the 50%+ content that CW represents being just an alternate drop mode with different maps and objectives in a very narrow and thin game.

Player type "C" is not asking for your type "A" mode to be turned into type "C" mode exclusively, far from it. I challenge you to find a single comment ANYWHERE here in this thread or other threads that has a type "C" player asking for CW to be locked out from units/groups and turned into a solo only que. The only thing they've asked for is to have separation from your type "A" mode, without being locked out of the game content it is attracting people with.

Your type "A" player IS demanding that they don't lose access to rounds against the type "C" players, and seem to have great issue with possibly being only matched against similar type "A" players. Some type "A" players even go so far as to cite the money they have spent to date along with them having helped turn the mode into type "A" play where PGI has failed to do so, gives them an entitlement to keep this content exclusive to themselves. Some type "A" players prefer to go up against type "C" players while trying to say they are type "C" players themselves.

when PGI make playing type "A" actually a part of the game client that's not just a vanity tag, you might find more players willing to do so. But while they leave it open, and the lack of content in the game otherwise continues, its going to draw in type "C" players. Even if they do make it more type "A" play conducive, there will still be a limited number of type "C" people who will not conform anyway, and who cares if you never have to play a round against them.



You will still be able to drop solo as unit tagged player, you will be grouped with your type "A" player accordingly. Equally if you want to be a type "C" player, you can drop your vanity tag and do so. You have a choice for either type of play as a solo.



I love how in one section you claim your the majority, then the next you claim the your the minority. It's brilliance like this that only works to make your post appear as entitlement tripe.

I can understand your feeling burnt by PGI's lack of team building tools in the game, the lack of lobby functions etc related to team and factions is also disgusting.

what i don't understand and can't empathize with is your lack of correct direction for that frustration and anger.

PGI haven't done squat to foster an environment where units / groups are something better to be in, they are just tags. PGI haven't made made forming a unit / group very user friendly, THEY left it for the community to fund and support. PGI haven't made a mode where team play is any more beneficial than it is in quick play. PGI haven't made a campaign with any level of depth or influence to distinguish units/groups over solo's. PGI haven't done a thing to expand to the mode other than dressing it up with a pretty planetary map that resets and holds zero value in game due to the free for all nature of the mode.

lots of things PGI haven't done to make it your dream end game mode, lots of things PGI haven't done with respect to game content that is going to continue to draw any player type into it. Lots of blame and misplaced anger at the feet of BOTH player types as a result of PGI failing in so many respects.

The easy solution? Type C player becomes a Type A player in the mode designed for Type A players rather than expect the rest of the community to bend over to their whims.

[Jon Gotham]

Sandpit, on 20 January 2016 - 09:20 PM, said:

you should really take an english course, or something. That's not a shot at you. You are just completely misrepresenting what he said through either ignorance or intention.

That's why he said "minority" instead of minority.

YOu gotta stop with that kind of stuff if you want others to take you seriously.

Exactly, thanks Sandpit. i'm done with this honestly. It's like banging your face into a wall over and over. The bare faced facts of the issue is player attitude in the first instance, that's the root cause of it. any entitlement is coming from the pro solo brigade demanding they have equal access to the mode...thing is they already have it........all they have to do it outreach and talk to people. How hard is that? How many of us like yourself and I have tried to get people onto faction TS and into groups?
only to have threads like this and comments directed at us calling us entitled?
Howw can these people not see encouraging solo play in a multiplayer environment is bad idea? Every game I have played in the last ten years that went that way has not done well out of it....

This discussion just goes around and around with one side refusing to acknowledge that they are the ones setting the chain of events off in the first place......let's hope PGI don't kill MWO off eh?

[Jaqir]

As a filthy unitless solo casual from Steam who enjoys ending up in fights involving solo and/or groups of unit peeps on either side, I'm decidedly not sure what to make of this. So, you know, I'll just see how it turns out I guess.

[Wildstreak]

As someone who runs solo and has no problem that much playing with and against Units, I may just have to tag myself.
I can already think of a way for people to join solo CW queue and abuse it by dropping as a team, way too easy.
This will not end the problem if others figure it out, not that hard.
I also avoid all those 'wonderful VOIP comments' like the ones from my fellow Clan PUGers when facing 228 on Boreal and other times.
Never had the time to join some other Unit and still not had time to test TS to my satisfaction so a solo tag just works.

Edited by Wildstreak, 21 January 2016 - 09:27 AM.

[Sandpit]

kamiko kross, on 21 January 2016 - 03:15 AM, said:

Exactly, thanks Sandpit. i'm done with this honestly. It's like banging your face into a wall over and over. The bare faced facts of the issue is player attitude in the first instance, that's the root cause of it. any entitlement is coming from the pro solo brigade demanding they have equal access to the mode...thing is they already have it........all they have to do it outreach and talk to people. How hard is that? How many of us like yourself and I have tried to get people onto faction TS and into groups?
only to have threads like this and comments directed at us calling us entitled?
Howw can these people not see encouraging solo play in a multiplayer environment is bad idea? Every game I have played in the last ten years that went that way has not done well out of it....

This discussion just goes around and around with one side refusing to acknowledge that they are the ones setting the chain of events off in the first place......let's hope PGI don't kill MWO off eh?

that's why you just ignore the ones doing that type of stuff. Keep it to responding to the ones with serious ideas and let the trolls jsut keep bumping the thread for the constructive discussions

[Sandpit]

http://mwomercs.com/...h/page__st__740

like this thread. This is helping CW. All of the people saying "go away and leave me alone" aren't helping. Whether you like it or not, this is a multiplayer PvP game. You can either help or keep blaming ridiculous scapegoats

[Pjwned]

kamiko kross, on 21 January 2016 - 03:15 AM, said:

Exactly, thanks Sandpit. i'm done with this honestly. It's like banging your face into a wall over and over. The bare faced facts of the issue is player attitude in the first instance, that's the root cause of it. any entitlement is coming from the pro solo brigade demanding they have equal access to the mode...thing is they already have it........all they have to do it outreach and talk to people.

Over 37 pages later, it's still a double standard to split by solo/group in quick play but not faction play.

[Sandpit]

Pjwned, on 21 January 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

Over 37 pages later, it's still a double standard to split by solo/group in quick play but not faction play.

it's also not what PGI's split does according to PGI.

THey're splitting units, not groups

[Bonger Bob]

Sandpit, on 21 January 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

that's why you just ignore the ones doing that type of stuff. Keep it to responding to the ones with serious ideas and let the trolls jsut keep bumping the thread for the constructive discussions

lol, says the person bumping it most often, is that confession of yourself being the main troll ??

Sandpit, on 21 January 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

it's also not what PGI's split does according to PGI.

THey're splitting units, not groups

conjecture and misinformation, it could go either way as the interpretations are constantly being distorted by people on both sides.

A solo que more accurately implies its not going to be open to groups.

[Pjwned]

Sandpit, on 21 January 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

it's also not what PGI's split does according to PGI.

THey're splitting units, not groups

I know that, hence the comment on page 1 about the split not accomplishing anything, but the point still stands.

[Johnny Z]

Wildstreak, on 21 January 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

As someone who runs solo and has no problem that much playing with and against Units, I may just have to tag myself.
I can already think of a way for people to join solo CW queue and abuse it by dropping as a team, way too easy.
This will not end the problem if others figure it out, not that hard.
I also avoid all those 'wonderful VOIP comments' like the ones from my fellow Clan PUGers when facing 228 on Boreal and other times.
Never had the time to join some other Unit and still not had time to test TS to my satisfaction so a solo tag just works.

Yep I play MechWarrior Online when ever I have the time and I feel like it and because its the best. I made my own unit for fun. One rank, Freelancer. Awsome message of the day. I would share it but its op.

[Sandpit]

Pjwned, on 21 January 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

I know that, hence the comment on page 1 about the split not accomplishing anything, but the point still stands.

Yea I know, I jsut want ot keep the pertinent info fresh because in long threads like this it gets lots a lot of times

[Sandpit]

as an example of what som ein the community are trying to do?
http://mwomercs.com/...4967660__st__60

things like this

If you actually want to help improve CW, you can do it right there.

[Crenue]

I hate say it, but this might be a Quasi good idea.

Most of the non-unit people are new players or causal players. Removing them from the unit play does help them a lot. I know there is a few tagless good CW players, but they are far and few between.

For the units; it gives us all better matches vs having those matches where we just let them kill you just once so they can at least claim a kill. those poor guys.

[Sandpit]

Ratchada, on 22 January 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

I hate say it, but this might be a Quasi good idea.

Most of the non-unit people are new players or causal players. Removing them from the unit play does help them a lot. I know there is a few tagless good CW players, but they are far and few between.

For the units; it gives us all better matches vs having those matches where we just let them kill you just once so they can at least claim a kill. those poor guys.

tags have as little to do with skill level as mech selection does. There's nothing stopping players from forming a 1man unit the first day they start playing if they want

[Hotthedd]

Ratchada, on 22 January 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

I hate say it, but this might be a Quasi good idea.

Most of the non-unit people are new players or causal players. Removing them from the unit play does help them a lot. I know there is a few tagless good CW players, but they are far and few between.

For the units; it gives us all better matches vs having those matches where we just let them kill you just once so they can at least claim a kill. those poor guys.

You are assuming that unit-tagged players are better than non unit-tagged players.

That is a false assumption.

[JaxRiot]

Pjwned, on 21 January 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

I know that, hence the comment on page 1 about the split not accomplishing anything, but the point still stands.

Based on what I read, I dont think thats the case. I think the Solo que is going to be exactly that.. a Solo que. No groups.

Here are the links as to why I believe there will be no Groups in Solo que made by Russ himself on Twitter

First here is the announcement here- https://twitter.com/...731178296578048

When asked about small groups being able to join the Solo Que, Russ says thats its all or nothing when separating Groups from Solo.

here- https://twitter.com/...744940311367680

Note that he doesnt say Units. He says Groups.

He even specifically calls it a Solo que again here- https://twitter.com/...741043941347329

Even the word Solo means, One.. or Alone.

Solo Que = A Que of One

Not a que of many.