778 replies to this topic

[Hotthedd]

JaxRiot, on 15 January 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Time will tell what they decide to do next. But making the game more inviting to a wider range of players is a good start

Not if it comes at the expense of a sizeable segment of the current playerbase. One would think that PGI might have realized this by now after chasing off hundreds if not thousands of former players by doing exactly that.

[JaxRiot]

Hotthedd, on 15 January 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

Not if it comes at the expense of a sizeable segment of the current playerbase. One would think that PGI might have realized this by now after chasing off hundreds if not thousands of former players by doing exactly that.

How would it cost the game a sizable segment of the current playerbase?

For those players that think that CW should be for Unit play will still have that option. In spades.

The only thing that they lose is the ability to farm Pugs. And if thats the deal breaker for them, then thats just proof that a separate que was actually needed because they were never actually interested in competitive game play anyway and were only in it for the easy wins.

Making the game mode more causal friendly only helps. Most gamers today play multiple games and are far more casual than previous generations, and having a game that is more appealing to the masses brings in more players that will hopefully stay longer or at least make MWO one of the games they play regularly.

Currently CWs motto of "Join A Unit Or Get Rekt" is a turn off to most of the casual players. The old, the new, and the potential players alike

They either choose not to participate in CW, or just decide MWO isnt for them and walk away. Neither is good for the game as a whole in regards to player retention

Edited by JaxRiot, 15 January 2016 - 10:41 AM.

[Hotthedd]

JaxRiot, on 15 January 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

How would it cost the game a sizable segment of the current playerbase?

PGI showing that this game is never going to live up to its potential, always catering to the lowest common denominator, going against its own "pillars", and penalizing teams/rewarding solos can and has driven people who used to play MW:O away.

[MrJeffers]

JaxRiot, on 15 January 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

How would it cost the game a sizable segment of the current playerbase?

For those players that think that CW should be for Unit play will still have that option. In spades.

For the 100th (1000th?) time - its about queue times. Not farming PUGs. If the CW unit queues take too long to create matches or especially if they are creating unit matches on one side and solo matches on the other where both are getting ghost drops then it will result in even less people playing. Nobody likes ghost drops.

But nobody knows what exactly is going to happen to queue times. I expect Unit queue times to be longer, much like the group queue was before because of the tetris block team building that goes on, and without solos to fill in the gaps and even out odd numbers the team creation in anything other than a 12 man is going to take longer.

[Sandpit]

MrJeffers, on 15 January 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

For the 100th (1000th?) time - its about queue times. Not farming PUGs. If the CW unit queues take too long to create matches or especially if they are creating unit matches on one side and solo matches on the other where both are getting ghost drops then it will result in even less people playing. Nobody likes ghost drops.

But nobody knows what exactly is going to happen to queue times. I expect Unit queue times to be longer, much like the group queue was before because of the tetris block team building that goes on, and without solos to fill in the gaps and even out odd numbers the team creation in anything other than a 12 man is going to take longer.

group queue won't change much

Instead of dropping with lessa than 12 and trying to pick up some PUGs we'll just wait until we have 12 now. THen drop instantly.

Solo queue?
Good luck organizing that mess with nobody but new players, solo players who could care less about CW as a whole, seal clubbers, and the few who DO want to play CW for CW.

The solo queue is what gets hurt here. Not the group queue

[smokefield]

Quote

How would it cost the game a sizable segment of the current playerbase?

for example in my case i stopped buying things in game. I am still playing but will not spend money on it as long as every decision they make goes further and further away from the mech game they promised in the beggining. they promised CW as the ultimate game experience..and it seems we will go back not forward, just to keep some cry babies happy. yay for the good of the game !

[MrJeffers]

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

group queue won't change much

Instead of dropping with lessa than 12 and trying to pick up some PUGs we'll just wait until we have 12 now. THen drop instantly.

Solo queue?
Good luck organizing that mess with nobody but new players, solo players who could care less about CW as a whole, seal clubbers, and the few who DO want to play CW for CW.

The solo queue is what gets hurt here. Not the group queue

And maybe that is what happens, units mitigate the issue by only dropping in 12s using TS or LFG to complete the group number.

Solos on defense are probably not going to have an issue, but they are probably going to be seeing more ghost drops due to lack of solo attackers. Or maybe the solos will start attacking and see both queues full. It's all speculation at this point.

[MadcatX]

Well, in preparation for the upcoming change, I just created my one man unit to be able to play with other units. At least from my own, albeit limited, experience with CW, I've learned more from other players in units, experienced more teamwork then in Quick Match, have had much more fun and interesting conversations in-game and made a few friends while at it. Of course I've been on the receiving end of a stomp but I've also played alongside units. That has been my experience anyways and I'm sure that varies from person to person of course.

I'm actually sort of happy the queues got split simply because playing in a full PuG team felt pretty much the same as a Quick Match game,

Sure I've got my own opinions of the pros and cons of this on the grander scale but I think the past 18 pages of this thread have already covered those.

[Sandpit]

MrJeffers, on 15 January 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

And maybe that is what happens, units mitigate the issue by only dropping in 12s using TS or LFG to complete the group number.

Solos on defense are probably not going to have an issue, but they are probably going to be seeing more ghost drops due to lack of solo attackers. Or maybe the solos will start attacking and see both queues full. It's all speculation at this point.

It doesn't mitigate anything

The vets who are doing the seal clubbing will still do it, just without tags, the new players won't have as many around to help them learn about CW, the maps, the modes, the dropship waves, etc.
The solos will "win" more because the skill, experience, and knowledge levels they're facing just dropped to below their average levels so they'll enjoy it at first.

Then as new players start getting tired of getting slammed, have no support, can't find TS servers, units, groups, etc. they'll leave CW and go back to PUB drops or leave MWO altogether.
Then the players who actually enjoy CW being "hard" will start joining units and leave the "solo" queue alone.
Then the only thing left are the tryhards, wannabes, seal clubbers, and new players.

Yea, that sounds like a good way to get people involved in this mode.

Brilliant ideas PGI

I was wrong to ever doubt it lol

[Monkey Lover]

MadcatX, on 15 January 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

Well, in preparation for the upcoming change, I just created my one man unit to be able to play with other units.]

You should just pick one of the units form house marik We got a few actively looking for members no real requirements other than being a fun person and coming to the ts to group up.

[MrJeffers]

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

It doesn't mitigate anything

Units dropping only as 12s mitigates any issue of not having the right unit building block numbers to make a 12 man drop; exactly as you said in your previous response to me. Don't know why you went off on some tangent.

[Monkey Lover]

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

It doesn't mitigate anything

The vets who are doing the seal clubbing will still do it, j

I was kind of thinking . Use an alt account sync drop with a few buddies then make easy few million a game in the solo Q clubbing and then put the cbills in the unit coffer. At the same time your helping take the planet.

Of course that's with the understanding the unit coffer will be worth something in phase 3.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 15 January 2016 - 11:42 AM.

[Sandpit]

smokefield, on 15 January 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

for example in my case i stopped buying things in game. I am still playing but will not spend money on it as long as every decision they make goes further and further away from the mech game they promised in the beggining. they promised CW as the ultimate game experience..and it seems we will go back not forward, just to keep some cry babies happy. yay for the good of the game !

ding ding

I can play and not spend anymore money. I'm not going to keep putting money into a community that the company itself seems to want to segregate me from, so why bother?

Basic premise of MWO when you take out any fluff, lore, IP, etc. is a basic shooter. I can find that game play in any one of a hundred, if not thousand, other titles. Heck, I can find my Btech fix in any number of other games for free as well. It's not the game, company, etc. that keeps me here.

It's the friends I've made in the community here. If PGI is going to continue making me look like some evil dbag who does nothing but prey on new players, instead of a gamer who has done nothing but try to help them build a community here, then screw them. Sorry, that's harsh, but why in the world would I spend my time trying to fight a company over common sense things to help improve the community when they continue disregarding any and every alternative handed to them.

"EASY"
PGI, HATES, that word. I suspect he hates it because there's nothing easy in regards to building MWO I'm sure.

Guess what though. Some of this IS easy. It doesn't HAVE to be complicated. You continue TRYING to make it complicated.

"Oh, well you're not a game dev, you have no idea"
You're right, I'm not.
I'm just a guy who spent 30 years successfully putting together CW in various MW and Btech games. Note that word, successfully, because it's very important. These aren't failed examples or ideas that never cam to fruition
http://www.mekwars.org/

just one example
built by a handful of people with very little to no coding experience.
on java
15 years ago
complete with logistics, planetary conquest, varied drop deck weights, combined forces including infantry and vehicles

If myself, McWiz, Orca, Uru, and a few others can build, admin, and run that campaign (at peak I believe we had a few hundred active) with next to no funding as amateurs, in our spare time..

Point being, this community in particular has dozens if not hundreds of players within it that have built from the ground up, run, managed, and created MANY CW experiences over the years using far from optimal tools and funding.

Yet, PGI continues to dismiss us like we don't know what we're talking about.
"Post a thread on the forums and solve all the problems, it's easy right?"
That's what trying to get PGI to read the suggestions we put up here on the forums is met with.
Almost word for word. That's what happens when you try to get PGI to read threads that give viable solutions and because they aren't "hard", they're met with disdain and dismissal without ever even being read.

Monkey Lover, on 15 January 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

I was kind of thinking . Use an alt account sync drop with a few buddies then make easy few million a game in the solo Q clubbing and then put the cbills in the unit coffer. At the same time your helping take the planet.

Of course that's with the understanding the unit coffer will be worth something in phase 3.

Trust me, the ones who really do roll up PUGs and new players and go out of their way to make a miserable experience for others will just have an easier time identifying targets now.

Not to mention, it's apparently not groups, just tags, so now you'll have 12mans of these tagless warriors doing it, they just won't get their real units in trouble now since they have an alt with no tags.

This idea doesn't even separate groups from solo, just players unfortunate enough to think belonging to a unit with friends was a good thing. That's apparently the evil thing now. If you have tags you're one of those evil nogooders ruining CW

[WarHippy]

Monkey Lover, on 15 January 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

You should just pick one of the units form house marik We got a few actively looking for members no real requirements other than being a fun person and coming to the ts to group up.

Yeah, but then he would have to socialize and stuff which isn't any fun. He has the right idea playing solo and still being around the groups which makes things far more interesting.

[Hotthedd]

Of course they are not read, Sandpit. At least they are not read by people up the ladder.

Why has PGI gone through so many community managers in such a short time?

How do you think Russ tweets that someone is "on an island" when there is an active poll in the very game forums showing 5000 active players being against something?

It is no accident.

[WarHippy]

Hotthedd, on 15 January 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

Of course they are not read, Sandpit. At least they are not read by people up the ladder.

Why has PGI gone through so many community managers in such a short time?

How do you think Russ tweets that someone is "on an island" when there is an active poll in the very game forums showing 5000 active players being against something?

It is no accident.

Examples of mismanagement for $500 Alex.

[Sandpit]

Hotthedd, on 15 January 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

Of course they are not read, Sandpit. At least they are not read by people up the ladder.

Why has PGI gone through so many community managers in such a short time?

How do you think Russ tweets that someone is "on an island" when there is an active poll in the very game forums showing 5000 active players being against something?

It is no accident.

which is exactly why I'm suggesting you start doing what others do, just spam QQ to Russ on twitter about it.

[Hotthedd]

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

which is exactly why I'm suggesting you start doing what others do, just spam QQ to Russ on twitter about it.

Unfortunately, by now my apathy towards MW:O precludes me from opening a twitter account just to be drowned out by the CoD participation trophy masses.

[Sandpit]

Hotthedd, on 15 January 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

Unfortunately, by now my apathy towards MW:O precludes me from opening a twitter account just to be drowned out by the CoD participation trophy masses.

just don't add them to your followers

Then you don't have to get your twitter blown up
I'm going to make sure I post 2-3 times a day with direct links to forum threads at Russ until the next townhall. Apparently loud QQ is the only way to get PGI to listen to ideas and such.

[Sandpit]

I'm also willing to tweet a list of players who don't want to use Twitter to Russ that don't think this latest is a good idea as well. This community can do amazing things when motivated and organized enough. This is one of those things that I honestly, truly feel has the potential to just completely ruin CW for new and solo players.

Units are going to be laregly unaffected because, well we're units, we already have players to drop with if we want. The PUGs, solos, and new players we actively try to pick up aren't being "recruited" by any particular units or faction, we're simply trying to pick them up out of faction chat and doing PGI's job for them in explaining how the complicated mess that CW is works.

Now, they're going to be tossed to the wolves. They aren't even kept from 12mans, just 12mans with tags. Yea, your griefer groups aren't going to figure that one out and continue stomping players in the "non-unit" queue. I mean who would be able to think of a way around THAT roadblock.

Certainly not players who's entire goal is to sit around and come up with new ways to grief the community. I mean it's not like I came up with a work around to be able to slaughter seals with no real effort or thought put into it in under 5 minutes...

oh wait...