778 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 15 January 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Well there should be a release valve. So I would bring that suggestion upto Russ.

I personally see no problem with split queues as long as theres no ghost drops.

Theres going to be MORE than enough pugs to ensure that the pug queue is always full. However units shouldnt be able to capture slots on planets just because there isnt another unit to oppose them.

You know, release valves are the reason for various complaints about the group queues (not so much solo, but it still existed previously).

Then the argument becomes "those baby seals aren't protected, yyyyyyyy?".

Edited by Deathlike, 15 January 2016 - 05:16 PM.

[Sandpit]

Deathlike, on 15 January 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

Then the argument becomes "those baby seals aren't protected, yyyyyyyy?".

That's the argument every bandwagon goes with

Then when you show that their idea doesn't actually do any of that, they just want to label you a troll and resort to personal attacks to take attention from the actual discussion.

[EgoSlayer]

Bonger Bob, on 15 January 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

no one is championing the split as removing 12mans for scrub pugs to come against, YES it will mean a full unit / group of 3rd party voip coordinated players will not be able to continue dropping against a side composed of scrub solo's.

You keep going on about the que split as though its going to penalize solo's, pug and new players all in one hit.

The solo team player is still able to engage in solo play. Whats that ???, you want to be in a group with others all communicating in 3rd party voip and all dropping at the same time ??, thats what group / unit is for.

You are mistaken on these points. There is a unit queue and a non-unit queue. Or Tagged players vs untagged players if you prefer.

This doesn't prevent 12 non-unit/untagged players from forming a group, even using in game tools, joining up on a third party TS server, and then running that 12 man in the non-unit/untagged queue. Group or no group it doesn't matter. 12 solos in the non unit queue are still going to be facing 12 man groups. The only difference is that it won't be a unit that makes the 12 man.

[Bonger Bob]

wanderer, on 15 January 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Just to keep stomping this:

It's the "I have a unit tag" queue and the "I don't have a unit tag" queue.

I can cheerfully go tagless (as I am now), get a 12-man together with fellow tagless players and go stompity all over the "safe" queue.

The difference with a que split is : your going to have an equal chance of pairing against a side with the same motivations as you describe, each side will be comprised of roughly the same players. Not the current one side full of 3rd party voip coordinated players against a pug side with people barely using chat.

wanderer, on 15 January 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Likewise, even a single player will be in the "unit tag" queue as long as he's in a unit. Even a unit of 1.

This is perfect, for the Merc class of player. You want to be a solo and run in a que where people are all using the same 3rd party voip and dropping together as a coordinated team, then go for it.

[Johnny Z]

EgoSlayer, on 15 January 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

You are mistaken on these points. There is a unit queue and a non-unit queue. Or Tagged players vs untagged players if you prefer.

This doesn't prevent 12 non-unit/untagged players from forming a group, even using in game tools, joining up on a third party TS server, and then running that 12 man in the non-unit/untagged queue. Group or no group it doesn't matter. 12 solos in the non unit queue are still going to be facing 12 man groups. The only difference is that it won't be a unit that makes the 12 man.

The large units on the faction map currently are not the largest problem. Who cares if they form a non unit group. I don't.

The top problems on the faction at this very moment is players throwing matches and cheats, in that order. Period. Newbies that cant fight yet is a distant 3rd and after that 12 man premade teams somewhere.

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 January 2016 - 05:27 PM.

[Sandpit]

Bonger Bob, on 15 January 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

one side full of 3rd party voip coordinated players against a pug side with people barely using chat..

your negative opinion of the vast majority of players in this game just continues to astound

Edited by Sandpit, 15 January 2016 - 05:28 PM.

[Lazor Sharp]

IF...... and that's a big IF at this point. This new unit less / tag less Q can effect the mach's going on in 48 v 48 Q, by turning on and off assets arti and air strike's, or opening gates, etc, etc, for their faction on that planet much like the 4v4 scout mode was described in the Town Hall. Then the faction leaders are going to send in tier 1 - 2 ringers in alt accounts, to make Damn sure that their faction has access to those assets, and the other faction does not have access those assets.... So, the solo / newbie pug stomping will continue for that reason alone........


Dumping new players into the public solo Q, or this proposed unit less Q, for them to try to learn all the in's and out's and figure out how to play MWO in general all by them self's, is why the NPE is so terrible. If they don't have vets to teach them the ropes, and carry them a little till the they the hang of it, they are gona have a terrible time. This is why a new player joining a faction hub or unit TS, and learning from the vets is so important for the NPE and retaining new players. The solo / unit less Q will ether Teach them bad solo rambo habits if they stick around long enough to learn them, or rage quit after a few matches from the stomps.

This unit less / tag less Q with out a PSR, will only allow the tier 3-1 Vet solo players, that really do know how to play, to farm newbies and the casual baddies.......... so the seal clubbing will still go on anyway............ This Q split, is not gona fix a damn thing.

I HATE tweeter and refuse to use it, so every one else twetter the hell out of Russ with these issues, and maybe just maybe he will wake up and see the error of his concepts on this subject......

[Johnny Z]

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

your negative opinion of the vast majority of players in this game just continues to astound

There is nothing a 12 man wont do to beat a public group in my experience. Nothing, and that includes cheating. This is part of this topic is a BIG way. Is this a negative view?

Its been a long while since I was in a public group that dropship camped a 12 man.... It isn't because they all of a sudden got a lot better. Wall hacks are off the leash in some units. Aim bots less so.

[EgoSlayer]

Johnny Z, on 15 January 2016 - 05:26 PM, said:

The large units on the faction map currently are not the largest problem. Who cares if they form a non unit group. I don't.

The top problems on the faction at this very moment is players throwing matches and cheats, in that order. Period. Newbies that cant fight yet is a distant 3rd and after that 12 man premade teams somewhere.

And this is relevant to me correcting someone who thinks that the queues are splitting pre-made groups from solos? How so?

[Johnny Z]

EgoSlayer, on 15 January 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

And this is relevant to me correcting someone who thinks that the queues are splitting pre-made groups from solos? How so?

Well its on topic and sounds negative but not entirely relevant no.

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 15 January 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Well there should be a release valve. So I would bring that suggestion upto Russ.

I personally see no problem with split queues as long as theres no ghost drops.

Theres going to be MORE than enough pugs to ensure that the pug queue is always full. However units shouldnt be able to capture slots on planets just because there isnt another unit to oppose them.

The problem here is you just end up with the exact same experience we have now. It's rarely more than 24 people on a side and most are already in a drop. So the pug group I just dropped with on CW (which is all unit tagged players save 2) is going to drop against whatever unit, or pugs, form up first on the other side.

There isn't going to be enough people waiting in queue to make 12 players for any sort of matchmaking.

So yes. You are exactly correct. You shouldn't be able to capture slots because you fielded no units but plenty of pugs. Also tagless players are not more than 40% of the games population. They're also not spread evenly, so it's not going to magically fill in drops more easily to split the queues.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 15 January 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Well there should be a release valve. So I would bring that suggestion upto Russ.

I personally see no problem with split queues as long as theres no ghost drops.

Theres going to be MORE than enough pugs to ensure that the pug queue is always full. However units shouldnt be able to capture slots on planets just because there isnt another unit to oppose them.

Hold on a second! If a faction intentionally decides to not defend their planet, they get to keep ownership?

Edited by Mystere, 15 January 2016 - 05:40 PM.

[pwnface]

Johnny Z, on 15 January 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

There is nothing a 12 man wont do to beat a public group in my experience. Nothing, and that includes cheating. This is part of this topic is a BIG way. Is this a negative view?

Its been a long while since I was in a public group that dropship camped a 12 man.... It isn't because they all of a sudden got a lot better. Wall hacks are off the leash in some units. Aim bots less so.

Again you prove yourself to be delusional beyond reparation. Every thread I see you post in you cry about "wall hacks, exploits, aim bots". Give it a rest already will you?

[Bonger Bob]

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

rofl
Again, should I quote your post regarding the players you're "defending" here as "scrubs" I can if you like. You seem to forget about that kind of stuff.

As for this quoted portion? Yea, everyone else. This is exactly the kind of propaganda I'm talking about. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say some of us are tired of being your scapegoat and pariah. We're tired of getting blamed every time you have a bad game. This is exactly the kind of crap I'm referring to if any of you ever wonder where these "crazy" rants come from.

I wonder where players like me might get the idea that they're constantly berated

I wonder why players in groups feel like that?
Hmmm... yet this is the same guy that refers to new players and those solos and PUGs as "scrubs"

as previously highlighted in response to your attempts to blend terminology regarding the player types, the "solo scrub" term is being used to describe the player type that is solo, devoid of any team work or communication, in rounds solely for attendance to get any amount of C-bills for their own goals, while totally ignoring the actions of the group and contributing nothing to a match other than filling a slot in a 12 man.

A solo play is not by default in this list.
A new player is not by default in this list.
A pug player is not by default in this list.

The pugs, solo's, new players now have an option to drop where they are not by default going to land against a side comprised entirely of players all in the same 3rd party voip, attempting to "train and recruit" at gunpoint the pugs, solo's, new players.

The solo scrubs will still get rolled, they will forever do so while they remain such, nothing is going to change these players in any way.

The solo player has the option of wearing a tag and continuing to coordinate with players in the group / unit ques. These are also the infill for the part groups seeking the extra's to make a 12 man.

The pug player has the option of continuing to coordinate with players in the solo que. They can drop with like minded players who are casual enough to not bother working around the flaws and missing functions with the game client. They can drop against a side that is more likely to be comprised of the same types of players.

The New player has the option to test the waters and get a feel for the different game mode, without auto-landing against a 3rd party voip coordinated team that is going to attempt to train and recruit them with a gun barrel. They can move to being a pug or solo as they see fit when they see fit.

is that clearer and less likely for you to blend terminology in a poor attempt to close down debate and discussion on the ques splitting ??

Sandpit, on 15 January 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

Know what's truly funny? In 20 some odd pages I've never once seen those of us mainly participating in this discussion refer to anyone, much less new players, as scrubs.

Yet we're those "angry bitter vets" (I guess since you can't use the "premade or 12man boogeyman" anymore you got a new soundbyte) who have had over 20 pages of discussion without having anything negative to say about any players, whether we agree with them or not.

So again, and for the last time from me since you're no longer worth the time or energy and have rightly and finally been trounced as and outed as the troll you are, take your propaganda elsewhere.

Take your fear mongering and stereotyping to some other thread. Your trolling is weak and your bitterness is strong. I'll tell you like I tell everyone else. If you can't keep it off a personal level, leave your snarky attacks and such at home and have an adult conversation, then go elsewhere.

Trust me sir, you're a bit out of your depth in that category looking through the names in this thread. You're just going to wind up with hurt feelings, and wonderment at how your pathetic attempt to troll were rebuked and otherwise laughed at.

You seem to conveniently forget your statements about "bads" as you call them with respect to players not using 3rd party voip / faction chat to form up a group and drop collectively as a team in CW.

Your high volume low content troll posts are in a category all of their own, and you call me a troll ?!?!?, ill take that as a compliment.

Im not the one who has attempted to belittle, deride and berate all and any discussion out of existence, to only throw a tantrum issuing veiled threats to PGI and the community over things not having gone my way.

You really need to take a pill and calm down, come up with some rational debate and communicate respectfully, volumes of tantrum posts with no substance and an attitude that is plainly elitist entitlement is going to continue to get you nowhere.

Ill give you that in some of your posts in very select sections and for a brief moment, you do have some valid concerns and points of conversation, but it all comes undone by the rest of your fine work. If you tried being less hostile, more amicable and willing to discuss the problems without instantly shite-canning anything that is not aligned with your opinion, you might find people more receptive and understanding of your perspective.

So yeah, at this stage after the last 2 weeks of seeing your "posts" in reply to others and mine, forgive me for not really giving a shite about your side of the debate, especially with the tantrums mixed with threats and conceit.

Edited by Bonger Bob, 15 January 2016 - 06:12 PM.

[Khobai]

Mystere, on 15 January 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

Hold on a second! If a faction intentionally decides to not defend their planet, they get to keep ownership?

No you misunderstood. What I meant was there shouldnt be any ghost drops as a result of an attacking unit not being able to find a defending unit.

In that case there should be a release valve that allows a pug vs premade match to take place and pugs would defend instead. There would still be a ghost drop if theres no pugs to defend though.


So basically what Im suggesting is this... CW would try to match pug vs pug and premade vs premade. If a game hasnt started after a certain amount of time (5 minutes?) then a release valve gets opened that allows a pug vs premade match to occur. And if the game still hasnt started after a certain amount of time (10 minutes?), you'd get a ghost drop as normal.

So its kindve like having split queues except if it cant find defenders in the same queue, it allows a mixed queue game, because a mixed queue game is still better than a ghost drop. It guarantees that the defender always get an opportunity to defend the planet as long as someone is available to defend it.

I believe having a release valve mechanism like that would assuage most peoples concerns about split queues...

Edited by Khobai, 15 January 2016 - 06:19 PM.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 15 January 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

The problem here is you just end up with the exact same experience we have now. It's rarely more than 24 people on a side and most are already in a drop. So the pug group I just dropped with on CW (which is all unit tagged players save 2) is going to drop against whatever unit, or pugs, form up first on the other side.

There isn't going to be enough people waiting in queue to make 12 players for any sort of matchmaking.

So yes. You are exactly correct. You shouldn't be able to capture slots because you fielded no units but plenty of pugs. Also tagless players are not more than 40% of the games population. They're also not spread evenly, so it's not going to magically fill in drops more easily to split the queues.

It's just not something I see this segregation fixing. I don't see how it can.

[jaxjace]

Good, im ******* tired of seeing noobs in CW with 4 trials who lose all 4 of their mechs and do less than 400 dmg in 5 minutes.

Nothing against them personally but they are ******* useless ingame and are detrimental to the fun of literally everyone.

Stomps are not fun either way.

[Johnny Z]

pwnface, on 15 January 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

Again you prove yourself to be delusional beyond reparation. Every thread I see you post in you cry about "wall hacks, exploits, aim bots". Give it a rest already will you?

Carefull. You show yourself in this reply and players like you should be a lot more stealthy. This is understatement of the year and says a lot about these days.

You may think cheats are alright and not a problem. But cheats are in the top two problems in this game when it comes to unfair matches. Cheats are the top problem in many games.

That you don't see this says a lot.

Pwnface, your kind never beat my kind in an open fight. Never. Its not going to happen now. Take what wins you can sneak.

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 January 2016 - 06:50 PM.

[Moldur]

Several steps for simplification and accessibility later, CW is made into another queue with no ties to any sort of strategic map or factions, no separation of IS and Clans either.

[Dagorlad13]

Johnny Z, on 15 January 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

Carefull. You show yourself in this reply and players like you should be a lot more stealthy. This is understatement of the year and says a lot about these days.

You may think cheats are alright and not a problem. But cheats are in the top two problems in this game when it comes to unfair matches. Cheats are the top problem in many games.

That you don't see this says a lot.

Pwnface, your kind never beat my kind in an open fight. Never. Its not going to happen now. Take what wins you can sneak.

Yes, especially when "top-tier" players cheat, or use exploits that are nearly cheating to gain an edge and then talk down to those who don't.