778 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Nick86, on 16 January 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

Why are the guys at PGI so stupid?? Yet again they have completely screwed up their approach to solving a problem. It's not necessarily groups that are the biggest problem with cw (vs solos).. It's the f**king NOOBS!! Get them out and the situation will be much better. Imagine having to wait three times as long for a game and still finding that you've drawn the short straw and are stuck on team Cun* who can't hit a barn door between them still..

Pgi screw this up like they are about to and I'm done with this game. I mean what the fuc* are they thinking?! Are they gonna put matchmaker in too to further delay games?

Everyone who campaigned for this change is a ******* shi*licker..

Just ban tier 4 and 5s from cw. Get good or go home!

Are you trolling? It seems like you're the exact type Sandpit was talking about...

[Sandpit]

TheArisen, on 16 January 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

Are you trolling? It seems like you're the exact type Sandpit was talking about...

i hope so...

[TheArisen]

Sandpit, on 16 January 2016 - 12:59 AM, said:

i hope so...

Here I am, trying to say that not all competitive players are frothing at the mouth, but are reasonable, and right after this guy shows up... Haha, it's almost like it was a movie or something.

[Reza Malin]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 January 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

Generally people in units will understand teamwork, even if they dropped alone.

I think its a good step in the right direction. Should still be plenty of people in the unit queue, but the new players and people who just like to rambo can have their kiddie pool.

Why do you sound so bitter about this if it doesn't really affect you? Your arguments all sound like you resent the change but if you are part of a unit like your attitude suggests, then surely your life will not be affected by these changes? You can surely carry on dropping 12 man V 12 man unaffected, correct? Or maybe you are going to miss stomping PUG groups that are new to the game or have no coordination to enhance your own ego?

Just making assumptions here of course, i might be completely wrong. Just like you did stating people who play solo are somehow part of a "kiddie pool". I am not purely intending to pick on your particular posts on this matter, i am just starting my post replying to your comments because they were the first i saw that are endemic of a general vibe that i ofetn feel is embedded within the long term MWO community. Though i admit, i did find your comments frustrating.

Ok so now newsflash time: PUGS do not like being stomped by 12 man premades. Shocking as this may be for some people to discover. This is also nothing new. Its nothing to do with ego, or wait times. It has been this way forever.

Just like before CW existed and they sorted the standard queues out so that 12 mans would not go against pugs in normal matches. I don't understand why you think understanding teamwork is a concept alien to anyone outside of a unit. Its almost like you have the opinion that solo players are sub human, judging purely from the condescending nature of your comments towards people that don't like to play this game while simultaneously pretending to be part of some crackpot fictional pseudomilitary organisation.

I have played MWO on and off since the beta. I have been part of big units, stomping 12 mans, being stomped by 12 mans, zellbriggen challenges, called lots of successful drops, and all manner of team orientated MWO things. That was another time and things change. Now i just usually prefer to play on my own, or in a small group.

I don't like the fact that half the units have an obsession with training sessions, i resent that a lot of units treat new members like they are semi lobotomized or never played the game before. I also strongly dislike how a lot of serious unit members gain a self important air of arrogance based around immersing themselves in a fictional lore as if they actually exist there in reality.

Each to their own of course, if people want to go that far then power to them. I just struggle seeing any justification for some of the attitudes that tumble from these units. I'm all for immersion in my video games and i love the lore of BattleTech as much as the next man. However i have never actually thought or acted like i really was a Star Commander etc, and i certainly didn't try and impose onto other people that i was, other than maybe with a few commands in a fight or calling targets.

I have been part of a military unit in real life, and after a considerable time i left for a reason. I now don't often want to be part of one in my video games and spare time. I just want to play in a relaxed group, and chill, or play on my own. Seems like in this game, many units think you have to be in some structured unit lifestyle or you can't be effective. I genuinely find it quite strange.

In no other game have i seen this obsession with organisation and massive BS for what is essentially right now, 12 man deathmatch on a fairly small map, with 3 respawns if you are playing CW.....

The bottom line is this. If we take any egos out of this change, its best for everyone. Structured units can solely test themselves against other unit groups, which is the only way it should be. And solo and PUG players can play each other in a more free for all scenario.

Either way you play, its a level playing field. 12 man against 12 man, or pug against pug. Neither grouping has any more or less right to determine the fate of planets in video game CW warfare, so lets get that out there right now. Being in a unit does not make you "more important" as far as CW is concerned except maybe in people's own minds.

Rant over, lol.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Sandpit, on 14 January 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

Well that's that.

PGI is splitting queues per Russ on twitter.

Guess that puts to rest all the debate and ideas and suggestions regarding it.

the unit tears without seal clubbing will be priceless

[Nick86]

TheArisen, on 16 January 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

Are you trolling? It seems like you're the exact type Sandpit was talking about...

Actually I've just woken up half drunk from a heavy Friday night and seen this post and gone nuts, so as I sober up, I realise I may have sounded more extreme than I meant to, however... New players should not be in CW full stop. It completely screws the whole premise of the mode. Instead of solving the problem of inexperienced players crushing the experience of their teammates and even opponents with their sub 1000 scores etc (this is real, don't deny it please), they are splitting the queue. You'll still have a 'noob' lottery and you'll lose the most challenging aspect of cw, the unit v solo match. I held those dearly.. Some of them were the best ever.

[Reza Malin]

Nick86, on 16 January 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

Why are the guys at PGI so stupid?? Yet again they have completely screwed up their approach to solving a problem. It's not necessarily groups that are the biggest problem with cw (vs solos).. It's the f**king NOOBS!! Get them out and the situation will be much better. Imagine having to wait three times as long for a game and still finding that you've drawn the short straw and are stuck on team Cun* who can't hit a barn door between them still..

Pgi screw this up like they are about to and I'm done with this game. I mean what the fuc* are they thinking?! Are they gonna put matchmaker in too to further delay games?

Everyone who campaigned for this change is a ******* shi*licker..

Just ban tier 4 and 5s from cw. Get good or go home!

Real life star commander detected. Comes complete with detachable cape.

[Sandpit]

Fade Akira, on 16 January 2016 - 01:26 AM, said:

Ok so now newsflash time: PUGS do not like being stomped by 12 man premades. Shocking as this may be for some people to discover. This is also nothing new. Its nothing to do with ego, or wait times. It has been this way forever.

this change doesn't stop premades and 12mans, Just those in units with tags.

TheArisen, on 16 January 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

Here I am, trying to say that not all competitive players are frothing at the mouth, but are reasonable, and right after this guy shows up... Haha, it's almost like it was a movie or something.

if there was ever any doubt?

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 January 2016 - 01:27 AM, said:

the unit tears without seal clubbing will be priceless

are you starting to see things now Arisen?

[Nick86]

I should probably add that the change would be a really good thing if we had enough CW players in the first place or some counter to the low numbers like pure IS vs Clan encounters. Still, newbies are the core problem IMHO. So, drunk people no post, noobs no cw. ������

[TheArisen]

Sandpit, on 16 January 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

this change doesn't stop premades and 12mans, Just those in units with tags.


if there was ever any doubt?

are you starting to see things now Arisen?

Well I would say that my faith in the forums has dropped... Even lower.

On the bright side, there's a monetary reason not to dump unit tags. The tidbits I've seen suggest that units can earn MC whereas the unitless can only get Cbills. I don't know any particulars, but there it is.

[TheArisen]

Nick86, on 16 January 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

Actually I've just woken up half drunk from a heavy Friday night and seen this post and gone nuts, so as I sober up, I realise I may have sounded more extreme than I meant to, however... New players should not be in CW full stop. It completely screws the whole premise of the mode. Instead of solving the problem of inexperienced players crushing the experience of their teammates and even opponents with their sub 1000 scores etc (this is real, don't deny it please), they are splitting the queue. You'll still have a 'noob' lottery and you'll lose the most challenging aspect of cw, the unit v solo match. I held those dearly.. Some of them were the best ever.

I'll admit, I've advocated something similar. I don't think it'd be terrible if newbies had to finish their cadet bonus & the tutorial before being able to drop in CW.

[Reza Malin]

sycocys, on 14 January 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

"We will just sync drop it to farm pugs."

First of all, if this is your plan - you are the reason split queues is happening. You can no longer holler about how CW is supposed to be hard mode or end game or unit/teamwork mode because you are the players intentionally going out of your way to avoid the challenge you claim the mode is supposed to be about.

I see a lot of true colors flying in this thread though - so that is a good indicator for PGI to just start out by taking measures to reduce this behavior from the start.

Drastically limited queue selections would be one really good way to do this - the fewer the buckets the less likely you end up in the same drop - kind of like how it rarely works in the current pug queue and for events like Tuk.

Could also just set a limiter in the drop queue that automatically spaces people out that queue withing a certain amount of seconds of each other.

Wouldn't hurt to have a saved copy of all current unit tags as well and keep it updated with the last 10-20 units a player is in, and start logging the timestamp of when players hit launch to queue. It won't take much effort at all to correlate when certain players are trying to exploit the system and sync drop. Some time off with a possibility of a ban would end most of this issue pretty quick.

-- End of the day if you actually think CW should be a challenge mode for groups/teams/units there is no fathomable reason why this change is detrimental for you or your team(s). This focuses "challenge mode" and removes "farming pugs" mode.


And there's absolutely no reason that solo players and new players shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to enjoy 50% of the game just because you don't think its fair that you can't farm them anymore.

Solo queue will likely be quite full once they aren't looking at rotfl stomps every single match. Group queue will be interesting and telling - it will definitely show whether or not these vocal players and units are really in it for the hardcore challenge mode or in it for the easy pug farming.

This guy gets it. 100%.

I think a good tell for the pug-stomp-lovers-professing-to-be-hardcore pilots, is constant reference to the following:

Feeding puppies into a woodchipper
Seal clubbing
Being a shark
Being a piranha
All PUG players being bad

This kind of talk in itself shows the lack of respect necessary for these kinds of people to then go out of their way killing newer and more inexperienced pilots, in order to boost their ego.

The funny thing is, i have seen lots of people like this in the game over the years. But when you take away their unit all focus firing pugs into oblivion and slapping each other on the backs about their pug smash damage numbers when all they ever drive is a dire wolf or timber wolf, many of them aren't all that on their own.

Edited by Fade Akira, 16 January 2016 - 03:52 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Nick86, on 16 January 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

Why are the guys at PGI so stupid??

Its not that PGI is stupid, its that a significant portion of the CW playerbase are brats with no integrity or self-control.

Last town hall Russ said something close to "you demand complexity, we work our tails off to give you complexity, and then you exploit shortcuts to avoid that complexity".

We saw the same thing when map/mode voting was introduced - all these "leet" players dove in to pick the simplest mode with the coldest/clearest map to farm quicker rewards, Frozen Skirmish 12 times in a row.

We saw it again with the r_glow user.cfg edit, with everyone insisting it couldn't be an exploit because PGI, being unaware of its abuse, hadn't declared it an exploit. But once PGI was alerted to it they locked it down.

We saw it again when one unit exploited a weekend event challenge to "show" PGI it could be broken.

So again and again we see too many players looking to exploit weakness in the game mechanics instead of simply playing the game. They are warned over and over again that if they keep it up, the cruiser PGI NerfBat will arrive on station. These players refused to change their behavior (running off new players for easy LPs and cbills) so PGI has stepped in and changed it for them.

So its the playerbase that is stupid, not PGI. PGI is like the DM in a tabletop campaign of 12 rules-lawyers all trying to game the system instead of simply playing the damn game.

Quote

Just ban tier 4 and 5s from cw. Get good or go home!

T3s too. CW should only be T1 and T2, and only units that have a .500+ win rate in leagues like MRBC.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 16 January 2016 - 04:45 AM.

[Lupis Volk]

Fen Tetsudo, on 16 January 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

Its not that PGI is stupid, its that a significant portion of the CW playerbase are brats with no integrity or self-control and are either braindead or deaf.

fixed it.

in my time going proper solo not PGI "solo" the biggest issue isn't pug stomping but pugs who refuse to play a team based game mode. too many times have i seen one brave soul be drop commander only to have 2/3 of the team ignore him and go full recon combat rambo.

[Nick86]

Fen Tetsudo, on 16 January 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

Its not that PGI is stupid, its that a significant portion of the CW playerbase are brats with no integrity or self-control.

Last town hall Russ said something close to "you demand complexity, we work our tails off to give you complexity, and then you exploit shortcuts to avoid that complexity".

We saw the same thing when map/mode voting was introduced - all these "leet" players dove in to pick the simplest mode with the coldest/clearest map to farm quicker rewards, Frozen Skirmish 12 times in a row.

We saw it again with the r_glow user.cfg edit, with everyone insisting it couldn't be an exploit because PGI, being unaware of its abuse, hadn't declared it an exploit. But once PGI was alerted to it they locked it down.

We saw it again when one unit exploited a weekend event challenge to "show" PGI it could be broken.

So again and again we see too many players looking to exploit weakness in the game mechanics instead of simply playing the game. They are warned over and over again that if they keep it up, the cruiser PGI NerfBat will arrive on station. These players refused to change their behavior (running off new players for easy LPs and cbills) so PGI has stepped in and changed it for them.

So its the playerbase that is stupid, not PGI. PGI is like the DM in a tabletop campaign of 12 rules-lawyers all trying to game the system instead of simply playing the damn game.




T3s too. CW should only be T1 and T2, and only units that have a .500+ win rate in leagues like MRBC.

Okay the last bit you put was hopefully a joke, but the point about exploits was on the money. I do recognise the change is to address the unit behaviour, however separating the lower tiers out would surely be the most logical step rather than the bazooka approach that queue splitting is, considering CW was supposed to be end game content, surely! I don't like the idea of punishing new players for being new but allowing them to CW just kills it for the rest and ultimately hurts the game..

[Zibmo]

Tyler Valentine, on 14 January 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

NOTHING CAN STOP ME NOW!!!!!!!!!! OMG I was good against groups. This will be amazing. For the record I think this is a bad idea, i presented arguments on both sides but I always stated this is a bad idea. You should either have to join a group or be REALLY good to play in CW but here we are and...

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Die little puggies.

The only difference will be where you farm them.

You are special. Drive them all away. It worked with CW. I'm sure you and those like you are completely capable of killing the game off. Then you can load with the same names arrayed against you every game. Won't that be fun?

You'll get your hard mode then. It will be like 40 man raids in Vanilla WoW were. Three hours of preps with "alternates" hanging by to fill slots when people get bored enough to leave the instance. At which time, in keeping with your ego, it will all be PGI's fault.

Enjoy.

Edited by Zibmo, 16 January 2016 - 05:03 AM.

[Mystere]

mania3c, on 15 January 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

In all honesty ..there are not many(if any) good ideas how to fix this problem. This problem is much deeper and such complex problem need really complex solution. But for some quick band-aid solution, split queues is the best they can offer. Let's see how it will change things.

I'm going to have to vehemently object. This is the reason why MWO has so many problems in the first place. It's all band-aids and duct tape instead of solid and well though out designs.

Once again, what are needed are innovative game modes that soften the blow for new players, either directly in CW itself, or indirectly in the public solo queue or Training Academy. The described 4x4 CW mode looks like something in the right direction.

On the other hand, forced player separation and matchmakers are nothing but knee-jerk and ultimately unimaginative solutions. Not only do they not solve the problem, they also turn CW away from what it should be. CW should be a quasi simulation of war, not eSports. If people want the latter, go ask for a separate Solaris mode.

mania3c, on 15 January 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

But this is exactly what CW currently is. And without changing CW from the core, this will never be different. So in fact, maybe it is time to treat it as such (more complex mode but otherwise just a normal quick game) or it is time to thinking about complete rework of CW. I know there are plans for phase 3 which will be rolling soon, but if you just tap some "planet importance" on the top of current system, it wont do much. Not with this playerbase and scale of CW.

CW as of today is nothing but a mere skeleton. There is no immersion or depth in it. It only has 2 game modes and a few maps. We need more game modes. We need more maps suitable for the game modes they are used in. We need a real planetary campaign system instead of this silly "Take 7 or more slices in a 13-slice pie for the win!" thingy we have now.

Edited by Mystere, 16 January 2016 - 05:40 AM.

[Nick86]

Solaris mode would be smart and the game does need this.. Modes to soften the blow, yes also.

[Reza Malin]

Nick86, on 16 January 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

Solaris mode would be smart and the game does need this.. Modes to soften the blow, yes also.

Solaris would be pretty epic

[Ghogiel]

Nothing will change, except they the players I am clubbing won't have the evil premade excuse.