778 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

I do think if we blocked trial mechs and only allowed elite+ level mechs into cw you would see a lot more balance.

[Johnny Z]

Sandpit, on 16 January 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

I find it funny that one of the guys that "liked" your post then immediately goes two posts down and says something silly like


Yea, I agree, it's very easy to stpot the true colors and opinions of others if you just actually read what they say once in a while


I thought the same thing, apparently I was wrong, It's a unit queue, not a group queue

so again, you guys without tags have fun fending off the griefers and roflstompers and such by yourself. Those with tags can't drop with you anymore. You have fun getting rolled up by tagless dedicated 12mans

As a player that simply cant see all the cards I am not for split queues either. However I don't think dedicated tagless 12 mans are a sure problem.

I am fully aware of the effort that can be put into creating stomps. This stuff even happens in rl as a heads up. No kidding. In fact this is a very old fight that I am constantly surprised carried over into online gaming lol. Its worth a laugh really. Seriously no kidding. When I was 13 I was chased into a string of barbed wire strung between two trees in a park by three grown men, one on a motor cycle. I could easily be dead or blind but instead I was covered in blood only and I have really nice scar. 100% true story. I got a few stories like that. My place was burned down two weeks ago along with everything I own.... Seriously. This may be a warning to someone that helps.

But anyway, the unit queue may be a big enough field to curb much effort being put into stomping the regular queue.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 January 2016 - 03:12 PM.

[Sandpit]

Johnny Z, on 16 January 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

As a player that simply cant see all the cards I am not for split queues either. However I don't think dedicated tagless 12 mans are a sure problem.

I am fully aware of the effort that can be put into creating stomps. This stuff even happens in rl as a heads up. No kidding. Seriously no kidding. But anyway, the unit queue may be a big enough field to curb much effort being put into stomping the regular queue.

The thing is PGI, and some players, severely underestimate the extent certain sections of the players will go to in order to exploit something like this.

People keep talking "sharks" and "piranhas" well this separation does nothing but ring the dinner bell honestly

[Johnny Z]

Sandpit, on 16 January 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

The thing is PGI, and some players, severely underestimate the extent certain sections of the players will go to in order to exploit something like this.

People keep talking "sharks" and "piranhas" well this separation does nothing but ring the dinner bell honestly

Every single online game is dealing with this to one degree or another. Its simply part of the dynamic it seems.

Its tough for anyone to have all the answers but especially players. Have to wait and see how it all works out. No big deal. This game studio making this game has shown a legitimate intent to make a fun fair game for all players so far. So far its going in a good direction. Slow for my liking but anyway.

[Sandpit]

Johnny Z, on 16 January 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

Every single online game is dealing with this to one degree or another. Its simply part of the dynamic it seems.

Its tough for anyone to have all the answers but especially players. Have to wait and see how it all works out. No big deal. This game studio making this game has shown a legitimate intent to make a fun fair game for all players so far. So far its going in a good direction. Slow for my liking but anyway.

and every single online game seems to find ways to severely mitigate or eliminate it.
except MWO apparently...

[Johnny Z]

Sandpit, on 16 January 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

and every single online game seems to find ways to severely mitigate or eliminate it.
except MWO apparently...

I totally disagree there. I think they are doing great when it comes to this problem. All the content and design so far is first rate. What there is of it....

I am going to try get that reward mech but I got a late Christmas present and am downloading Fallout 4 at this very moment.

Cant wait for Phase 3 of the faction map though.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 January 2016 - 02:43 PM.

[Sandpit]

Johnny Z, on 16 January 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

I totally disagree there. I think they are doing great when it comes to this problem. All the content and design so far is first rate. What there is of it....

I am going to try get that reward mech but I got a late Christmas present and am downloading Fallout 4 at this very moment.

Cant wait for Phase 3 of the faction map though.

no arguments with content and progression at this point (other than slow)

That's not what we're getting riled up about though. This has to do with fundamental philosophy of the company, tone of theg ame, etc.

I'm tired of being made into this evil pariah simply because I belong to a unit. I'm tired of every time there's an imbalance in MWO and/or CW, players and PGI alike break out the groups whipping boy crap and rhetoric.

If you don't want us here. Don't want units and organized groups, just say so, we can find other games that do welcome us and a community. Don't sit there and string players like that along simply because they're your deepest pockets and most loyal fans most times.

You can look in this very thread and very rarely will a single page go by without someone trying to paint anyone in a group or unit as some evil dbag preying on new players and unorganized PUGs.

The sad thing is, that when you look at what those players are truly saying, it becomes quite apparent that they want nothing more than to do it themselves, they're just trying to be sly and coy about it.

This mentality has permeated this game and community since OB. PGI fosters is and uses it when they need to. Whether that be intentionally or not. I don't think Russ of PGI are "out to get anyone" when it comes to singling out a certain section of players. They're a business, they want to make as many happy as possible, but with that said, every single time something goes way out of whack, it ALWAYS comes back to blaming anyone not just dropping as a lone wolf type player.

Some of us are sick of it. That's why I'm not concerned with building an MWO community anymore. PGI won't let that happen. They continue putting up roadblocks and doing nothing but making everyone wearing a tag or belonging to a group like dbag exploiters. They segregate every chance they get, they refuse to put in the most basic and simplest of communication tools such as true functioning lobbies, they refuse to acknowledge or put in ANY social tools.

These are things that any other online game would have had from day 1. Most definitely before any kind of commercial launch. Do we have them here? No, not really. We have a friends list that doesn't work half the time or you have to compeltely wipe out to "fix", we have a lobby for faction play and that's it, we have an IM system that was an afterthought and is next to impossible to use effectively.

You look at these types of things as a whole and its clear to see that PGI has put no real effort into things like this. They have no interest, or worse knowledge, in these types of tools to help players communicate and actually assist new players.

They continue breaking out the "well large groups" excuse. Hell, that's how we got collisions taken away from us for good. Goons used them to publicly humiliate a staff member and poof, they were gone never to be heard from again. PGI thinks too much with their emotions sometimes when it comes to this game and the balancing and development of this game.

[Mystere]

Monkey Lover, on 16 January 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

I do think if we blocked trial mechs and only allowed elite+ level mechs into cw you would see a lot more balance.

Nah! I level Mechs is CW.

[Mystere]

Johnny Z, on 16 January 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

... I got a late Christmas present and am downloading Fallout 4 at this very moment.

You're screwed. You'd be tied down for weeks or even months.

I myself am barely back into MWO because of FO4. There's always that next building or rat hole that needs entering. And that's not mentioning how I am thinking of ways to stab the Brotherhood in the back.

Edited by Mystere, 16 January 2016 - 04:51 PM.

[Zibmo]

Lupis Volk, on 14 January 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

So the game mode that has been on life support just had it's tubes tied. Thanks PGI.

Though PUG vs units is a issue. The several times i've pugged alone most people ignore any and all attempts to try and organise. first wave dies give them a regroup point, watch as they all go straight back into the base one at a time.

Pugs are mostly unreasonable. "i want to play the game my way" they cry. "i'm trying to help us win or at least bloody the enemies nose" i reply back.

Haven't seen that at all. As in "ever". I have seen tin dictators who berate players at the outset of the game get ignored. And rightfully so. But I have YET to see someone take charge in a reasonable tone who is ignored by 11 others. There is the occasional 1 or 2 that simply don't pay attention.

Strawman.

Sandpit, on 16 January 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

no arguments with content and progression at this point (other than slow)

That's not what we're getting riled up about though. This has to do with fundamental philosophy of the company, tone of theg ame, etc.

I'm tired of being made into this evil pariah simply because I belong to a unit. I'm tired of every time there's an imbalance in MWO and/or CW, players and PGI alike break out the groups whipping boy crap and rhetoric.

If you don't want us here. Don't want units and organized groups, just say so, we can find other games that do welcome us and a community. Don't sit there and string players like that along simply because they're your deepest pockets and most loyal fans most times.

You can look in this very thread and very rarely will a single page go by without someone trying to paint anyone in a group or unit as some evil dbag preying on new players and unorganized PUGs.

The sad thing is, that when you look at what those players are truly saying, it becomes quite apparent that they want nothing more than to do it themselves, they're just trying to be sly and coy about it.

This mentality has permeated this game and community since OB. PGI fosters is and uses it when they need to. Whether that be intentionally or not. I don't think Russ of PGI are "out to get anyone" when it comes to singling out a certain section of players. They're a business, they want to make as many happy as possible, but with that said, every single time something goes way out of whack, it ALWAYS comes back to blaming anyone not just dropping as a lone wolf type player.

Some of us are sick of it. That's why I'm not concerned with building an MWO community anymore. PGI won't let that happen. They continue putting up roadblocks and doing nothing but making everyone wearing a tag or belonging to a group like dbag exploiters. They segregate every chance they get, they refuse to put in the most basic and simplest of communication tools such as true functioning lobbies, they refuse to acknowledge or put in ANY social tools.

These are things that any other online game would have had from day 1. Most definitely before any kind of commercial launch. Do we have them here? No, not really. We have a friends list that doesn't work half the time or you have to compeltely wipe out to "fix", we have a lobby for faction play and that's it, we have an IM system that was an afterthought and is next to impossible to use effectively.

You look at these types of things as a whole and its clear to see that PGI has put no real effort into things like this. They have no interest, or worse knowledge, in these types of tools to help players communicate and actually assist new players.

They continue breaking out the "well large groups" excuse. Hell, that's how we got collisions taken away from us for good. Goons used them to publicly humiliate a staff member and poof, they were gone never to be heard from again. PGI thinks too much with their emotions sometimes when it comes to this game and the balancing and development of this game.

I don't think anyone is saying to units "GO AWAY". I do think people are saying "As a solo player I don't like being stomped by groups." There is a big difference between the two. Nobody wants to ban you. But people DO want to play CW. On their terms. Just like you want to play it on yours.

Nobody has hurt groups. At all. Unless by "hurting groups" you mean "preventing groups from destroying other people's game play."

[Zolaz]

It is a shame that PGI cant make a team game that people want to play. It is also a shame that PGI says one thing, sold it for over 2 years as that thing then made it something different. There is a reason PGI doesnt come to the boards. It isnt because people treat them bad. It is because people call them on their BS.

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 16 January 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

You're screwed. You'd be tied down for weeks or even months.

I myself am barely back into MWO because of FO4. There's always that next building or rat hole that needs entering. And that's not mentioning how I am thinking of ways to stab the Brotherhood in the back.

Me too. And only back till GECK drops, then I'll be gone for another couple months. Damn I love that game.

[Dirus Nigh]

I am a solo player. I think this is unnecessary. If solos are having a bad time in CW they need to learn how to use voip and get better. If they dont want to do that stay in the solo pub que.

[50 50]

Don't panic guys.
All that was said was it is an idea, lets talk about it, haven't even written anything down. Not even on the beer coaster I was using at the pub when I tweeted this comment.

But, if you want to be constructive about it and see some more features added to the game, spit ball some ideas and let us see where it goes.
I have added mine here:
http://mwomercs.com/...lay-solo-queue/

[Sandpit]

Zibmo, on 16 January 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Haven't seen that at all. As in "ever". I have seen tin dictators who berate players at the outset of the game get ignored. And rightfully so. But I have YET to see someone take charge in a reasonable tone who is ignored by 11 others. There is the occasional 1 or 2 that simply don't pay attention.

Strawman.



I don't think anyone is saying to units "GO AWAY". I do think people are saying "As a solo player I don't like being stomped by groups." There is a big difference between the two. Nobody wants to ban you. But people DO want to play CW. On their terms. Just like you want to play it on yours.

Nobody has hurt groups. At all. Unless by "hurting groups" you mean "preventing groups from destroying other people's game play."

They aren't?
I can personally go back through a few threads and posts and point out where the guy that liked your post right here? Has done nothing BUT try to paint anyone who is in a unit is just some dirty seal clubber.

Once again, you don't have to say "go away" to make that the intent of your words. Just search the premade on the forums some time. You'll see it plastered all over the place and it's almost always used in conjunction with negative connotations towards PUGs, solos, new players, etc.

Some of us are sick of a select few continuously trying to portray us in that manner.

[Sjorpha]

Zibmo, on 16 January 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Haven't seen that at all. As in "ever". I have seen tin dictators who berate players at the outset of the game get ignored. And rightfully so. But I have YET to see someone take charge in a reasonable tone who is ignored by 11 others. There is the occasional 1 or 2 that simply don't pay attention.

Strawman.

A strawman is a very specific term meaning somebody misrepresenting someone elses position to make it easier to attack.

In this case he is saying something (pugs refuse to listen) that you don't think is true.

You think his argument rests on a falsehood, which makes it at best a misconception or at worst a lie from your standpoint. Now obviously that's another kind of bad argument, but none of you made a strawman here.

Quote

Nobody has hurt groups. At all. Unless by "hurting groups" you mean "preventing groups from destroying other people's game play."

If splitting the queues makes the population too small for units to find matches in CW that is most definitely hurting groups. Big time, in fact it would completely destroy unit play in CW. I can't think of a way to hurt groups more than that.

Of course there is a possibility that the unit queue will work, let's hope so, but when people talk about group play being hurt what they mean is the above risk of group play in CW not working anymore because it's not possible to find games.

As for all the bads whining, trash talking and making conspiracy theories about units I agree with you. They don't actually hurt units, they neither have a real case or any power to hurt anyone.

It's still annoying to have the uselessness of their posts clogger up the forums though, so while not hurting units it hurts the signal to noise ration of the discussions here.

Edited by Sjorpha, 16 January 2016 - 05:55 PM.

[Sandpit]

50 50, on 16 January 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

Don't panic guys.
All that was said was it is an idea, lets talk about it, haven't even written anything down. Not even on the beer coaster I was using at the pub when I tweeted this comment.

But, if you want to be constructive about it and see some more features added to the game, spit ball some ideas and let us see where it goes.
I have added mine here:
http://mwomercs.com/...lay-solo-queue/

or
you could just post them in the thread you just posted in?
or at least quote them out if you don't want to retype them?

[Bonger Bob]

Sandpit, on 16 January 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

no arguments with content and progression at this point (other than slow)

That's not what we're getting riled up about though. This has to do with fundamental philosophy of the company, tone of theg ame, etc.

I'm tired of being made into this evil pariah simply because I belong to a unit. I'm tired of every time there's an imbalance in MWO and/or CW, players and PGI alike break out the groups whipping boy crap and rhetoric.

If you don't want us here. Don't want units and organized groups, just say so, we can find other games that do welcome us and a community. Don't sit there and string players like that along simply because they're your deepest pockets and most loyal fans most times.

You can look in this very thread and very rarely will a single page go by without someone trying to paint anyone in a group or unit as some evil dbag preying on new players and unorganized PUGs.

The sad thing is, that when you look at what those players are truly saying, it becomes quite apparent that they want nothing more than to do it themselves, they're just trying to be sly and coy about it.

This mentality has permeated this game and community since OB. PGI fosters is and uses it when they need to. Whether that be intentionally or not. I don't think Russ of PGI are "out to get anyone" when it comes to singling out a certain section of players. They're a business, they want to make as many happy as possible, but with that said, every single time something goes way out of whack, it ALWAYS comes back to blaming anyone not just dropping as a lone wolf type player.

Some of us are sick of it. That's why I'm not concerned with building an MWO community anymore. PGI won't let that happen. They continue putting up roadblocks and doing nothing but making everyone wearing a tag or belonging to a group like dbag exploiters. They segregate every chance they get, they refuse to put in the most basic and simplest of communication tools such as true functioning lobbies, they refuse to acknowledge or put in ANY social tools.

These are things that any other online game would have had from day 1. Most definitely before any kind of commercial launch. Do we have them here? No, not really. We have a friends list that doesn't work half the time or you have to compeltely wipe out to "fix", we have a lobby for faction play and that's it, we have an IM system that was an afterthought and is next to impossible to use effectively.

You look at these types of things as a whole and its clear to see that PGI has put no real effort into things like this. They have no interest, or worse knowledge, in these types of tools to help players communicate and actually assist new players.

They continue breaking out the "well large groups" excuse. Hell, that's how we got collisions taken away from us for good. Goons used them to publicly humiliate a staff member and poof, they were gone never to be heard from again. PGI thinks too much with their emotions sometimes when it comes to this game and the balancing and development of this game.

Nice to see that your recognizing where some of the problems truly are: with the lack of team building and management tools, socialization tools that are missing and the general attitudes of some players that are not going to change. Does this include a back peddle from yourself on your views previously expressed in other threads regarding the functionality of the game voip too ???

The split does not punish groups and units though as you allude to. If anything it has done nothing to change the missing tools and functions that are penalizing groups / units, but this is not the extra punishment that you make it out to be. There is simply nothing being done that effects groups and units apart from having increased the chances that they will face each other and not burn time on pointless rounds where the opposing side is comprised in large or entirely of randoms. If you view this as negative for groups, I'd question what your true motivations for unit / group play are.

no matter what your take on it, it is going to be harder and less likely than it was before to be able to line up with a coordinated group / unit and go smack around a side of randoms. Yes, the exploitative actions of a minority of players who's motivations are questionable, will still be able to occur, but on a lesser scale and with more difficulty.

If you drop in the solo que as opposed to the group/unit que, your not able to guarantee that you will all be on the same round, that is all that's happened. If people en-mass want to drop a unit tag / join a unit tag / drop a unit tag / join a unit tag / drop a unit tag / join a unit tag / drop a unit tag / join a unit tag / drop a unit tag / join a unit tag repeatedly to attempt to game the ques and engage in exploitative behaviors, there is an equal likely hood they will be dropping against a side that has done the same. And all this only goes pop if you assume that a large section of players are going to do this, when in fact it would be the minority. Those that want to throw a tantrum or play only to feed will do so no matter what, you cant change that.

But the situations of a group / unit unwillingly being paired against a side comprised of randoms that present little to no challenge has been removed for those that wish it. This is actually a positive for groups / units, less time wasted on pointless matches, more challenging play for groups / units that are seeking a better base grade of opponent.

Saying it only damages group / units further is false and misleading, it leaves them untouched or slightly better off than previously. Your alleged resultant actions of those players going en-mass to use and attempt to break the ques for their own advantage is only making it seem like groups DO need punishing, which is not the case.

Groups have a place in the game that is very important, that place is not lining up against sides comprised in majority of randoms. They have foundations they have built in and out of the game, are we to believe those foundations are based on exploiting a weaker section of the player base ?? NO. Similarly I don't think anyone believes they are going to engage in tantrums at having lost that foundation they don't use.

The majority of group / unit players are happy that they have an option to win a round without the other side crying it was because they were in a group / unit. A win will hold greater value more consistently than what we have now without the split.

The other issues are exactly that, other issues, things like CW map takes still being the same for solo's as it is for groups, The lack of social tools or team management and recruiting, the players who engage in exploitative behavior, etc etc, they can be tied to splitting if you like, but they are separate problems that exist with or without a split.

[Ghogiel]

If I understand correctly how this new queue works, I think in the new system I might have a legit use for my alt. I can coordinate my alt with players in units trying to take a planet. And similarly with other players alts. We can make sure both queues are getting farmed. Having a few kicker pugs in the non unit queue to make some groups to stomp with. And obviously you'll have to roll in larger units or super groups made on the fly or else the unit queue is going to be ggclose for the average solo player.

[Sandpit]

Ghogiel, on 16 January 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

If I understand correctly how this new queue works, I think in the new system I might have a legit use for my alt. I can coordinate my alt with players in units trying to take a planet. And similarly with other players alts. We can make sure both queues are getting farmed. Having a few kicker pugs in the non unit queue to make some groups to stomp with. And obviously you'll have to roll in larger units or super groups made on the fly or else the unit queue is going to be ggclose for the average solo player.

^
exactly what's going to start happening because all it does is make it easier to target those players and with a segregated queue, nobody with enough organization and coordination will be ABLE to assist.