628 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Grow up and deal with it.
Unit/group players have been very vocally insistent that they want a "hard mode" - here's the way that happens that benefits the most players.

So now you will get the opportunity to actually show your true colors, and chances are if you fail to step up to the plate you will earn the game a huge shift away from anything being built for units/groups in the future.

[Gas Guzzler]

hybrid black, on 14 January 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

Other then no one in mercstar caring about tags, only groups that think we do

You don't even want to flip planets? Why play CW then? In any case, I just had enough respect for most of MS to not expect them to drop their unit tags so they can beat up on new players... correct me if I'm wrong though...

[hybrid black]

The return of the admirals

[hybrid black]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 January 2016 - 03:54 PM, said:

You don't even want to flip planets? Why play CW then? In any case, I just had enough respect for most of MS to not expect them to drop their unit tags so they can beat up on new players... correct me if I'm wrong though...

I play because group que is just as bad for finding a real game but in a 12 man cw I find fast games and get to play

[Commander A9]

Wait a minute...if you're in a unit, you can't pug-drop either?

So...you're imprisoned in a game type that you otherwise can't influence unless you fight only specific opponents...but if no unit-opponents step up to fight you, then you get no games.

...If this is implemented, I will seriously reevaluate my position in this game...

Russ...if you want me to keep playing your game, you need to seriously reevaluate implementing this system...If this goes live, I leave.

Edited by Commander A9, 14 January 2016 - 04:13 PM.

[Sjorpha]

Commander A9, on 14 January 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

Wait a minute...if you're in a unit, you can't pug-drop either?

So...you're imprisoned in a game type that you otherwise can't influence unless you fight only specific opponents...but if no unit-opponents step up to fight you, then you get no games.

...If this is implemented, I will seriously reevaluate my position in this game...

Russ...if you want me to keep playing your game, you need to seriously reevaluate implementing this system...If this goes live, I leave.

I think if players with unit tags can still drop solo in the unit queue this might actually work.

So the "solo queue" is only for players with no tag at all, but you can still solo drop in the unit queue if you are in a unit.

I'm worried this is bad news too, but at the same time I really want the window lickers out of my CW matches and most of them are the unitless players.

Edit: Having scoured the twitter threads Russ confirms that it will work as I said above.

Unit players will still be able to solo drop, but they will do so in unit queue, only players with no unit tag at all will go to the solo queue.

That actually sounds pretty sensible to me.

Edited by Sjorpha, 14 January 2016 - 04:33 PM.

[MischiefSC]

All for a hard mode -

The problem would be pug queue matches flipping worlds. If pug queue doesn't flip worlds it's all good.

[hybrid black]

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

All for a hard mode -

The problem would be pug queue matches flipping worlds. If pug queue doesn't flip worlds it's all good.

By hard mode you mean hard to find a game

[White Bear 84]

Going to wait until the town hall to hear this one out..

[Commander A9]

No it doesn't. It prevents you from playing with the entire community.

It's going to inspire a sense of elitism, if it hasn't already. :/

Community Warfare isn't broken-trust me. It doesn't need a goddamn matchmaker.

[Kin3ticX]

Commander A9, on 14 January 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

No it doesn't. It prevents you from playing with the entire community.

It's going to inspire a sense of elitism, if it hasn't already. :/

Community Warfare isn't broken-trust me. It doesn't need a goddamn matchmaker.

I support the double queue but its a long run fix that may never get off the ground

On the one hand people are being pushed out of CW before they even had a chance. On the other hand there are probably not enough people to support two queues from the get go. If Phase 3 generates enough renewed interest it possibly will have enough.

Rather than tell these players to "get gud" or "join a unit" while we stomp them into the dirt we can try to give the 2-3 months or more that they need in a potentially less hostile environment.

I find the Solo and Unit queue acceptable as long as there is a combined queue fall back plan if the queues start to die.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 14 January 2016 - 07:28 PM.

[Cloudfisher]

Just reading the CW threads amuses me beyond belief. First we've got a bunch of people claiming that they are not interested in seal clubbing, while they continue doing so. Now that the dev. team has finally understood that they let a bunch of people destroying their game by droving off new players from CW, we've got the same people complaining that they will be sitting in lobbies instead of annihilating PUGs and farming huge amounts of C-Bills. But maybe it's about time to face the consequences of you own actions, guys. There's new people coming to MWO, and those people could use some time having a fighting chance and time to learn before forming new 12mens that will present you with an actual challenge.

Edited by Cloudfisher, 14 January 2016 - 07:23 PM.

[Davegt27]

I wish you guys would listen to the town halls
There is no match maker there is a game maker

Russ said for there to be a match maker MWO would need 10 times the number of players

[pwnface]

Cloudfisher, on 14 January 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Just reading the CW threads amuses me beyond belief. First we've got a bunch of people claiming that they are not interested in seal clubbing, while they continue doing so. Now that the dev. team has finally understood that they let a bunch of people destroying their game by droving off new players from CW, we've got the same people complaining that they will be sitting in lobbies instead of annihilating PUGs and farming huge amounts of C-Bills. But maybe it's about time to face the consequences of you own actions, guys. There's new people coming to MWO, and those people could use some time having a fighting chance and time to learn before forming new 12mens that will present you with an actual challenge.

What makes you think there won't be seal clubbing in solo queue? If people can't get matches quickly in unit queue, they'll simply drop tags and farm the bejeezus out of solo queue.

Currently:
1 fishtank with sharks and goldfish. Sometimes 12 sharks get matched with 12 fishes.

New:
2 fishtanks.
1 fishtank with a bunch of sharks and a few fish.
1 fishtank with 90% goldfish.
Sharks have no barrier to enter the goldfish tank.

Do you see the problem?

If a unit wanted to abuse the crap out of this system, they could drop their unit tags and sync as 10-12 players and ONLY fight terrible unit-less PUGs. In the current system, teams can be matched up against other teams or at least there are unit-tagged PUGs that know what they are doing sometimes.

[CMetz]

CW is slightly broken. The impact of CW needs to be greatly enhanced. As a member of my unit often likes to say- the biggest reason that nobody plays CW is that nobody plays CW. In order for the game mode to take off it must have consequences beyond the map. I'll be bold and say that the results should impact every faction aligned player in the game. I personally have a good deal of fun playing CW. The most fun day I can remember having playing this game was a day when most of the guys in my unit were new, but all wanted to play CW. We dropped against NS 6 or 7 straight times and got beat most or all of them. We kept getting better though, and there was a mutual appreciation that both sides just kept queuing up for it. I remember that day and think of how far this game mode can go with a much bigger population. There are over 2100 units that participated in Tukayyid 2. Any given night there should be more than 300 players in the CW queue. The answer to growing the population is to make it relevant for every player. New players should be motivated to actually seek out units to join in order to learn how to compete in CW. In reality the mode needs more maps, more rewards, fewer ghost drops and more dire consequences. This all starts with making the game results relevant to everyone in the player population.

[fbj]

I think one of the biggest problems for CW besides the fact that new players are just randomly joining CW without proper decks or the know how to play against a veteran set of players. Is the influx of new streamers to MWO who are telling people to just join CW and get your LP points anyway you can to get the free mechbays.

That seems to be one of the biggest problems I am sensing right now. Instead of giving new players guides or detailed information on how to increase their game. They are being told to just jump right into the 'hardcore mode' and ignore the fact that team work is the biggest part to MWO.

[Skarlock]

Cloudfisher, on 14 January 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Just reading the CW threads amuses me beyond belief. First we've got a bunch of people claiming that they are not interested in seal clubbing, while they continue doing so. Now that the dev. team has finally understood that they let a bunch of people destroying their game by droving off new players from CW, we've got the same people complaining that they will be sitting in lobbies instead of annihilating PUGs and farming huge amounts of C-Bills. But maybe it's about time to face the consequences of you own actions, guys. There's new people coming to MWO, and those people could use some time having a fighting chance and time to learn before forming new 12mens that will present you with an actual challenge.

Some of the biggest units that frequently play CW are the guys who get *farmed by pugs* of random people with higher skill levels. Having a unit tag does not make you a good player, nor does not having a unit tag make you a bad player. Most of the absolute highest tier units simply don't play CW at all, but there is no way in hell simply having units fight other units will be even close to balanced. Your assumptions are wildly inaccurate. The higher tier players are asking for challenging matches in a reasonable time frame, which is important, but they also complain about a lot of other things, such as forced attack lanes, very linear non-dynamic game play, and only 2 game modes. Do you *really* think it's the highest tier players, who don't even really play this game mode, who are driving this change? Or do you think it's the lower tier players, the majority, who are asking for this?

If you think that a unit tag somehow magically distinguishes lower skill from higher skill, or that all units are even remotely equal in terms of competitiveness and coordination, you're sadly mistaken. As a CW player who has no unit tag, it's not shocking to me at all that I end up being the one carrying my team to victory when none of the pre-made 8 man members on my team can break 1k damage. It's not shocking to see a full 12 man lose to pure pugs, and I see no reason why simply being a part of a unit or a pre-made group in CW would mean anything.

If CW had some kind of ELO or PSR system that would be one thing, you're at least taking some tangible (albeit highly questionable) metric of player performance into account. This is not using that system, this is just a misguided idea that ultimately does not solve the problem it is trying to solve. I'm cynical enough to believe PGI doesn't care about any of this though and will simply implement it to quell the river of tears that flows from the people complaining about it, so we'll see for sure what happens once it is implemented. Don't say I didn't warn you though. If anything, this will destroy the participation of lower tier units in CW, who really only STOOD A CHANCE against a team of pure pugs.

Personally I think CW is a great mode for newer players due to the fact that the maps ARE much simpler and easier to play. You spend less time thinking about positioning and more time just working on your fundamental core mechanics of the game. I even suggested limiting CW to *ONLY* trial mechs to discourage higher tier players from even setting foot in the place, but people balked at the idea so hard, I just don't think it would fly.

Edited by Skarlock, 14 January 2016 - 08:01 PM.

[Kjudoon]

If this is actually happening, the easiest way to blend the two without upsetting people as much as they seem to believe they should be, you should allow solo players to opt in to the group Q. of course with the amount of people screaming no solo player should be allowed there in a way this is a self inflicted wound. the gravy train has gone under the sink and the poor dog can't get to it anymore. let's see who recognizes that old metaphor.
Ultimately two things seem to be suggested here. number one the return of the 12 man Q or its current equivalent is the goal because there has been so much destructive behavior in community warfare towards smaller groups and solo players. Secondly it confirms my belief that artificial intelligence is about the only savior to community warfare left in regards to providing cannon fodder for appropriate queues.

Edited by Kjudoon, 14 January 2016 - 11:00 PM.

[ShinVector]

Based on the specks of information I am seeing.

Russ maybe be stating there will be two queues for CW.
1. Faction Aligned - NON-Unit queue.
- Basically people aligned to at particular faction but didn't join a unit.
2. Unit Queue.
- From what I am seeing. SOLO players can still join this queue but must join a unit first. This can be a 1-MAN unit.

I believe it is somewhere along that lines...

Also wondering whether sync-dropping will be an obvious exploit to go around these restrictions.
Pending more details from the planned Townhall.

Edited by ShinVector, 14 January 2016 - 10:43 PM.

[DarklightCA]

slide, on 14 January 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

Giving people new to CW and particularly new to MWO a place where they can learn to play the mode without being baby seals to large groups and more experienced players is ultimately better for the game than the current situation where new players quit after being handed their heads.

Given time they will learn skills and go looking for more of a challenge, gate it so that the rewards for playing in the group queue make the step up worth it (ie planet tags and rewards). New players benefit and in the longer term so do groups because they have better players to recruit from.

The current situation is akin to putting a 10 year old fat kid up against the current 100m Olympic sprint champion. The race is over before it starts and we all know the kid isn't coming back for a second go.

If the group queue dies then it will be the fault of the groups who don't want to play each other. You can't expect solos to be cannon fodder for groups just so you can get a match.

New player's would better learn from playing in regular que under the protect of a match maker, having new player's jump straight into Community Warfare where you need 4 solid mech's and has no match maker is the problem here.

Preventing them from jumping into Community Warfare before they have those 4 solid mechs and spent that time learning the game through regular que and tiering up is a much better idea than completely destroying grouped play which is what separating the ques will do because there isn't enough population to support a grouped que.

All that will happen is that grouped player's will get tired of waiting in grouped que and join the solo que and keep stomping player's. New player's playing CW before they are ready is the problem here, not grouped play. By destroying grouped que, you may as well as get rid of planet conquest and Unit's all together. Who need's that when you have a dominant solo que based population, what a game that will be .

Edited by l)arklight, 14 January 2016 - 10:50 PM.