39 replies to this topic

[Whiskiz]

So a few years ago i played this for a few weeks, before clan wars, clan mechs, CW, being able to choose maps and basically everything but deathmatch in 5 maps. I left because while the combat in this game is awesome, it was just so basic, so repetitive.

I come back 4 or so days ago, join a clan unit and start doing and learning about CW.

I learn clan mechs quirks all got removed, i learn that one of the clan mechs even has negative quirks, i learn that IS mechs still have massive quirks, i learn that IS are allowed to bring more tonnage to CW making basically 48 teams of assaults or at the very least feels like it, i learn that not only do IS mechs completely dominate ranged fights (up to 1800m range laser boats as opposed to around 700m roughly for clans? plus all the quirks to said long ranged weaponrys stats in general, on top) i learn that if you even think about trying to then get to medium range to fight and maybe outpoke them, that they can boost their assaults speed up to around 60kph so they can just rush you with all their much more tonnage assault deathballs and so shutdown medium range fighting while also then dominating close range fighting.

I learn because of this that the only way people seem to even stand a minor chance of winning as a clanner is to play CW in a full premade team and those full teams have to be full teams of brawlers, that you have to run through enemy fire and take tons of free damage to close the distance and brawl while being shot at, at all angles by the entire enemy team from all ranges and again in much heavier mechs in total due to more tonnage. I learn that even though this strategy has many, many holes in it and is statistically and strategically flawed and on the snow map nigh on impossible from the environment being so open, that its the only option we have to even have a sliver of a chance, so on top of everything else mentioned above, i learn we are also pigeoned holed into the one playstyle - run brawl only builds (whether you like it or are good at it or not) and run at IS face and play this like you are playing CoD and hope to god you arent up against a premade or anything with a *collective* IQ of over 50.

Thats probably not all there is either, thats just what i could remember off the top of my head as a new player.

So after learning all of this i have to ask, what da fuq are PGI doing exactly? Seriously.

I heard PGI are being removed from this game/project, and i completely see why, no offense.

Edited by Scout Derek, 19 January 2016 - 08:07 AM.
I edited your title, remember this next time.

[Mcgral18]

I learned you are slightly misinformed.

[Lugh]

MechWarrior8363812, on 16 January 2016 - 08:22 PM, said:

So a few years ago i played this for a few weeks, before clan wars, clan mechs, CW, being able to choose maps and basically everything but deathmatch in 5 maps. I left because while the combat in this game is awesome, it was just so basic, so repetitive.

I come back 4 or so days ago, join a clan unit and start doing and learning about CW.

I learn clan mechs quirks all got removed, i learn that one of the clan mechs even has negative quirks, i learn that IS mechs still have massive quirks, i learn that IS are allowed to bring more tonnage to CW making basically 48 teams of assaults or at the very least feels like it, i learn that not only do IS mechs completely dominate ranged fights (up to 1800m range laser boats as opposed to around 700m roughly for clans? plus all the quirks to said long ranged weaponrys stats in general, on top) i learn that if you even think about trying to then get to medium range to fight and maybe outpoke them, that they can boost their assaults speed up to around 60kph so they can just rush you with all their much more tonnage assault deathballs and so shutdown medium range fighting while also then dominating close range fighting.

I learn because of this that the only way people seem to even stand a minor chance of winning as a clanner is to play CW in a full premade team and those full teams have to be full teams of brawlers, that you have to run through enemy fire and take tons of free damage to close the distance and brawl while being shot at, at all angles by the entire enemy team from all ranges and again in much heavier mechs in total due to more tonnage. I learn that even though this strategy has many, many holes in it and is statistically and strategically flawed and on the snow map nigh on impossible from the environment being so open, that its the only option we have to even have a sliver of a chance, so on top of everything else mentioned above, i learn we are also pigeoned holed into the one playstyle - run brawl only builds (whether you like it or are good at it or not) and run at IS face and play this like you are playing CoD and hope to god you arent up against a premade or anything with a *collective* IQ of over 50.

Thats probably not all there is either, thats just what i could remember off the top of my head as a new player.

So after learning all of this i have to ask, what da fuq are PGI doing exactly? Seriously.

I heard PGI are being removed from this game/project, and i completely see why, no offense.

Congrats on the name change to generic for 'reasons'

[DAYLEET]

IS mech also hide under your bed, in your closet in your head!!

[Shredhead]

MechWarrior8363812, on 16 January 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

I am not from SWOL. Really? How do people so massively misinform someone. The above cant be quite right either, surely.

You can look up stats and quirks here: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment
This brings you right to the weapon stats. Quirks can be viewed by clicking on 'BATTLEMECHS' and then scrolling down the list or selecting faction and weight class under 'Mech Quirks'. The history with IGP is archived and there's also a townhall livestream you can find on NGNG's Youtube channel. Jordan Weisman was talking about how he disliked the implementation of clans into Battletech in hindsight on a livestream, either NGNG or xxxImpalerxxx, or even both. There he was also talking about how he would rather not have introduced that kind of powercreep into BT and that trying to balance clans and IS is a good thing in his view.

Answering your €dit stuff:

MechWarrior8363812, on 16 January 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

1620m is almost the 1800m i mentioned above, if not a perfect recollection of the exact number. Still compared to way under 1000m for clans? You make no mention of alllll the quirks the IS mechs have, the fact that not only do clan ones have the bare minimum for weaponry if any, but even negative quirks.

But I did mention that. You have to keep in mind that all those quirks are just there to bring IS mechs up to clan mech/equipment level. I don't know where you get the "way under 1000 meter from". Both factions have 3 weapons that can shoot beyond 1000 meters. IS ERLL do around 2 damage at 1600 meters (with all those quirks, of course), it's not like they can butcher you at that range.

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5 ton difference in weight isnt as much as i was led to believe, but still matters. Heatsinks for lasers for increased DPS, alot of extra ammo for more damage in general, extra armor for more tankiness while having that min-maxed damage build that required taking some armor off usually, etc etc.

You can bring 4 of the best mechs in this game on clan side, either 4 Ebon Jags, 4 Hellbringers or a combination. You are not even slightly diminished by those 5 tons.

Quote

"It's pretty balanced, most clanners just refuse to use brawl weapons"

So again, thats the only option? We are relegated to one playstyle? Definitely imbalanced.

No, it's not. You can win with clan tech at all ranges.

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"if your unit is too dumb to figure out a way to win the range games against IS theres really not much to say here"

So clan players regularly beat IS in CW via medium to long range fighting?

Yes.

Quote

"as its most likely a wolf unit im expecting the worst from this post..."

Nice catch, is it because the wolf clan is bad, or just because there is clearly a clan wolf picture on my portait? lol...

Most Wolf loyalist units are bad, yes.

Edited by Shredhead, 16 January 2016 - 09:32 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

"I heard PGI got removed from this game / project".

Man, that is the most hilarious thing I've read on these forums.

For real though, I heard Beyonce Knowles was removed from the next Beyoncé album. As I'm sure you can imagine, she was devastated.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

You are in dire need of Adders.

[sycocys]

Who are you learning CW from that their first bit of instruction wasn't to teach you how to build mechs that can brawl? Your post appears to indicate that you are at least running with a group of friends if not a unit.

-- serious question though, if they are teaching you bad habits in their pre-game approach then chances are they are teaching you worse habits on the battlefield and a likely reason for much of your frustration with the mode.

Edited by sycocys, 16 January 2016 - 09:48 PM.

[AbyssalTyrant]

Is it me or whenever you read these kind of stupid topics its almost always a wolf player? Its almost without fail.

[Wintersdark]

Note my Clan tag, and rank.

MechWarrior8363812, on 16 January 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

Grats on the epic failure, PGI changed my name not me.

Yeah, we all know that. He was making fun of the "reasons"

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I am not from SWOL.

Really? How do people so massively misinform someone. The above cant be quite right either, surely.

No, Shred's completely correct.

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1620m is almost the 1800m i mentioned above, if not a perfect recollection of the exact number. Still compared to way under 1000m for clans?

Clan ERPPC: 1620m. Clan ERLL: Comparable to IS. Very close, though within the "almost the" range you specify above.

While very specific quirked IS mechs can outrange Clans in terms of hard maximum range on ERLL's, the difference is very small and the instances that actually comes up (cover, yo, you never need to approach for a kilometer over open terrain) are practically non-existent. It'd take forever for a team of IS mechs firing ERLL's at 1200m+ to kill a single Clan mech.

But, this doesn't mean IS "outranges" Clans. Clans still have the vaulted Clan Large Pulse Laser, dealing 13 damage at 600m, then dropping out to 1200m max range (for some reason, the cLPL wasn't nerfed like the other lasers). IS has nothing to compare with this: In the 400m to 600m range band - the single most common range band - Clan's totally dominate.

Into the 270-400m range, Clans still have very solid laser options - the CERML is basically a 1 ton 80% large laser. Compared to 5t for the IS Large, that's a huge advantage.

Up close? Clan ERSL and SPL are arguably the best brawling weapons in the game.

We're not hurting there.

Now, IS has very good options now, but they basically compete by having a bunch of bonus structure to absorb the damage Clan lasers can push.

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You make no mention of alllll the quirks the IS mechs have, the fact that not only do clan ones have the bare minimum for weaponry if any, but even negative quirks.

Because Clan mechs have Clan XL engines, which are essentially a combination of the advantages of an IS STD and XL engine, without any of the disadvantages. Even with the speed and dissipation nerf when you lose a side torso, Clan XL engines remain a strong advantage.

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5 ton difference in weight isnt as much as i was led to believe, but still matters. Heatsinks for lasers for increased DPS, alot of extra ammo for more damage in general, extra armor for more tankiness while having that min-maxed damage build that required taking some armor off usually, etc etc.

It's not 5 extra tons on a mech, it's a mech that weighs 5 tons more. Over the space of a 265t vs. 260t drop deck, it's pretty damn small.

Quote

"It's pretty balanced, most clanners just refuse to use brawl weapons"

So again, thats the only option? We are relegated to one playstyle? Definitely imbalanced.

Not in the slightest. Clans can brawl well, they can do extremely well in the mid-range, and the long range game is a wash. The key is picking a band and having full drops focus on that rather than spreading out.

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"if your unit is too dumb to figure out a way to win the range games against IS theres really not much to say here"

So clan players regularly beat IS in CW via medium to long range fighting?

Yes. If you call "regularly" roughly 50% of the time... which is the goal, right? Right?

Quote

"as its most likely a wolf unit im expecting the worst from this post..."

Nice catch, is it because the wolf clan is bad, or just because there is clearly a clan wolf picture on my portait? lol...

Because Clan Wolf is notorious for being full of salty tears that they're not grossly OP anymore. Clans WERE OP.

It's pretty close now - the closest it's ever been, and close enough that it's really hard to tell. It's possible that IS may actually be a little stronger overall now, BUT, if so, it's by less than Clan's where stronger before the last changes.

100% of my CW games are against IS. ALL of them. And I can conclusively say that while there are a lot of IS mechs I fear now - and certainly a lot of IS teams I'm practically terrified of - it's not because any are overpowered. It's just that for the first time since Clans dropped, I don't feel indestructible in a Timberwolf. I don't feel like I can just take on anyone 1v1 and win by default because my mech is just better.

Edited by Wintersdark, 16 January 2016 - 10:58 PM.

[Whiskiz]

Hm. Interesting.

[Wintersdark]

Not blaming your post on you specifically, rather, that it's pretty typical that your gross misinformation comes from Wolf.

In that, it's not blaming you (you're newly back, after all), it's blaming Wolf for being whiny crybabies who're sad they're not OP anymore and spreading BS.

Edited by Wintersdark, 17 January 2016 - 01:47 AM.

[Sassori]

Learn to play to your mech's strengths instead of crying that what you were doing isn't working anymore. That's what the IS did, even before those merc groups swapped over.

During Tukkayid I lead very successful drops against clan teams and 12 mans, sometimes win, sometimes lost, sometimes a well lead pug could even give trouble.

The difference? Teamwork.

Teamwork is OP. Nothing else. Out of all my losses on Tukkayid (Which weren't that many), Only two of them happened that weren't caused by a lack of teamwork.

[Otto Cannon]

It's hard to believe someone could feed you that load of steaming bull with a straight face. Thank you for this thread- not only does it allow you to get less butthurt and more truthful info, but it gave me a really good laugh too.

[Reza Malin]

Wintersdark, on 17 January 2016 - 01:46 AM, said:

Not blaming your post on you specifically, rather, that it's pretty typical that your gross misinformation comes from Wolf.

In that, it's not blaming you (you're newly back, after all), it's blaming Wolf for being whiny crybabies who're sad they're not OP anymore and spreading BS.

I have to agree with this. When clans first dropped i was part of CWDG for a long time (wolf unit). Everyone got very comfortable in the fact that IS were blatantly inferior, me included. They were blatantly OP, there is no doubt. I switched back to IS some time ago, and i did feel the OP difference from that angle of Clan over IS. It was frustrating. Yet all we ever heard was "git gud" from clanners who didn't want to lose their advantage. And i did notice there were many wolf players in that crowd, much to my shame (though i am now in a merc unit)

The reality is, balance right now is as good as its ever felt to me. There are no mechs i really fear anymore, however i know that nearly every mech in a certain situation can do well, regardless of whether its clan or IS.

[TexAce]

Can someone please show this poor guy how the CW map looked like before last reset so he knows from whom he is getting all this "info" from?

OP's thread stinks up to the heaven.

Edited by TexAce, 17 January 2016 - 03:37 AM.

[Reza Malin]

TexAce, on 17 January 2016 - 02:59 AM, said:

Can someone please show this poor guy how the CW map looked like before reset so he knows from whom he is getting all this "info" from?

OP's thread stinks up to the heaven.

Ha ha, good one!

[Satan n stuff]

TexAce, on 17 January 2016 - 02:59 AM, said:

Can someone please show this poor guy how the CW map looked like before reset so he knows from whom he is getting all this "info" from?

OP's thread stinks up to the heaven.

Pretty sure this one's from the first cycle.

[TexAce]

Satan n stuff, on 17 January 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

Pretty sure this one's from the first cycle.

yeah thats the first cycle. 2nd is even better.

[WarPickle]

I read the OP and thought this was a troll thread... but then I continued on and noticed it was serious...

I can't wrap my mind around this thread... it is all so wrong... where the hell are my meds....