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Best Heavy Lrm Mech(S)?


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#1 DavidStarr

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:34 AM

Update: since we also started discussing Timber Wolf as LRM platform, I've edited the thread title to suit a wider discussion. Please share your favorite LRM builds!

I've been thoroughly enjoying the trial Catapult A1 during the last few days and so I've been gathering C-bills to purchase it, as well as gathering loadouts here on the forums. But I've just realized that there's another fun mech in the game (probably more fun and more versatile, too) that can utilize LRMs: the Ebon Jaguar. This is what I came up with. This is not the strongest LRM EBJ build you can get, but it's versatile with its 2xUAC/2. The volley damage is less than that of a Catapult, but sustained DPS is on par and even higher. With the speed of over 80 kph and two UACs this EBJ can flank, apply mid-range damage, finish off stragglers and even brawl if it has to just as well as sit behind a safe hill and rain fire down on the enemy mechs. At least that's how it works in my mind - I might be missing something because right now it looks too good to be true.

Please share your thoughts, critique my build and help me pick my first great mech that I will purchase and work on leveling up. The reason I post about it so much is because C-bills come n slowly and it'll be a long time before I can afford the next mech. So I must choose wisely.

P. S. Why can't I equip EBJ with jump jets?

Edited by DavidStarr, 08 February 2016 - 12:35 AM.


#2 epikt

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 07:00 AM

Catapult-C1, 2 LRM15 Artemis, TAG and 3 MLas, perfect balance of manoeuvrability and firepower for an aggressive LRM-boat.
<self-promotion>Here is a gameplay video (and even another one with sweet French audio commentary)</self-promotion>

The problem with the trial Catapult-A1 is the very poor synergy between the two weapon systems.

View PostDavidStarr, on 06 February 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

P. S. Why can't I equip EBJ with jump jets?

Because the Ebon Jaguar is not jump jet capable.
(I know, a bit of a Captain Obvious answer, but what can I say, some mechs just can equip jets)

Edited by epikt, 06 February 2016 - 07:21 AM.


#3 Darwins Dog

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 07:02 AM

Only certain mechs can equip JJ. If you look at the main page on Smurfy it will tell you if they are capable.

As for mech choice, I would go with another catapult, so that you can unlock the elite skills (you'll need 3 of them).

EBJ is lots of fun, and very versatile, but the build you shared may lead to problems. Ballistics are a poor backup to LRMS because it's hard to have enough ammo for both. AC/2s are also not very useful unless you have a lot of them.

#4 DavidStarr

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 07:45 AM

View PostDarwins Dog, on 06 February 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

Ballistics are a poor backup to LRMS because it's hard to have enough ammo for both.

I agree on the ammo argument, but 2 tons of AC ammo amounts to 300 potential damage. If I hit 50% shots (which I should be able to), that still amounts to hefty 150 damage out of ~400 this mech should be scoring. Is that really so bad?

View PostDarwins Dog, on 06 February 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

AC/2s are also not very useful unless you have a lot of them.

I hear you but 5.2 DPS out of 2 AC/2s alone is on par with many medium and even some heavy mechs. Again, is that really so bad?

#5 InspectorG

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:25 AM

Holy god in heaven, dont do that.

0. Dont LRM boat...but if you must...

1. C-ALRM10s are the sweet spots, but ALRM15s are ok.

2. Clan LRMs are light and ammo is plenty, USE BACKUP WEAPONS.

3. USE THIS
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e115ecad58be561

Reference metamechs.com when building.

#6 Darwins Dog

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:37 AM

View PostDavidStarr, on 06 February 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

I agree on the ammo argument, but 2 tons of AC ammo amounts to 300 potential damage. If I hit 50% shots (which I should be able to), that still amounts to hefty 150 damage out of ~400 this mech should be scoring. Is that really so bad?




I hear you but 5.2 DPS out of 2 AC/2s alone is on par with many medium and even some heavy mechs. Again, is that really so bad?

The thing about 150 damage is it depends on how it's dealt. 150 damage to the CT will kill about any mech. AC2's spread damage out a lot though, and 150 damage spread across the torsos and arms of an assault mech won't even breach the armor. It's also less than 2 minutes of actual shooting (1 if you are double firing them). It also leaves you with only 20 LRM volleys (110 seconds of constant fire). 2 minutes into the fight you won't be able to do any more damage.

They do have really high DPS, but it comes at the cost of face time. You need to be constantly exposed to return fire, and your target will have an easier time spreading the damage to different components and finding cover.

The build looks good on paper, but the way LRMs and ballistic weapons function in game just doesn't sync well. UAC/2s are great suppression weapons to make enemies duck behind cover, but that's exactly the opposite of what you want for LRMs. If your target is moving then you will need to lead with the ACs, which can break your LRM locks.

A build like this is how I run my EBJ as an LRM boat. Fewer launchers keep you in the fight longer. TAG helps cut through ECM and get faster target locks. The MPLs help you fend off light mechs and give you something to shoot with when the missiles are gone.

EBJ is a really good mech if you decide to go with one. You can do ballistic heavy builds (I like 3xUAC/5 myself), SRMs, LRMs, or laser vomit. I could also be totally wrong about your build. I don't really know your playstyle, so you may be able to find the right use for it.

Good Hunting!

#7 epikt

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:53 AM

View PostDarwins Dog, on 06 February 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

Ballistics are a poor backup to LRMS because it's hard to have enough ammo for both.

While I agree on the point (even if it's not really about ammo dependency, I personally run a lot of 100% ammo dependent mechs) I think David came up with this build by modifying the stock/trial mech. If my memory serves me, it carries 2 LRM15, 2 UAC/2 and 2 SRM6. When I first saw that, I found this loadout really silly. But then I drop with it (I was testing all trial mechs) and found it to be surprisingly effective (maybe a lucky drop) in the sense that, for a mixed range build, it does not have the flaws of the trial CPLT-A1: UAC are pretty versatile, LRM don't have a hard minimum range, so weapons are not too separated one from another. Also, I must say, it's hell of a fun mech to pilot.
So, yeah, certainly not the best weapon combination but I see the appeal.

#8 DavidStarr

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 09:26 AM

View Postepikt, on 06 February 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

I think David came up with this build by modifying the stock/trial mech. If my memory serves me, it carries 2 LRM15, 2 UAC/2 and 2 SRM6.

Actually, I made it from scratch after reading the EBJ guide on Metamechs. Didn't even realize the trial one runs UACs, too. I had good success with trial Jaguar. But I'm not bent on running it if I go with EBJ as my 1st mech - just pitching the idea. My issue with the trial Jag is 2 SRMs - not the best usage of weight and slots since that weapon can only hit point blank and I don't like being point blank. So trading SRMs for 1 more LRM seemed like a reasonable thing to do.

Edited by DavidStarr, 06 February 2016 - 09:29 AM.


#9 epikt

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 09:46 AM

View PostDavidStarr, on 06 February 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

Actually, I made it from scratch after reading the EBJ guide on Metamechs.

Hehe, that's why you don't make assumptions on other people reasons for doing their stuff Posted Image
(I agree on the awkwardness of the SRMs)

#10 mailin

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 10:02 AM

Ideally you really want your mechs to have some energy weapons as backups. If you find yourself overheating you could lower the 15s to 10s and add heat sinks, or do the same if you run out ammo. 10s will make the ammo last longer. One thing that I am not found of about clan lrms is that they fire in a stream. I much prefer IS lrms in that regard.

Either way, good luck and hope to see you on the battlefield.

#11 IraqiWalker

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 10:13 AM

View PostDavidStarr, on 06 February 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

I've been thoroughly enjoying the trial Catapult A1 during the last few days and so I've been gathering C-bills to purchase it, as well as gathering loadouts here on the forums. But I've just realized that there's another fun mech in the game (probably more fun and more versatile, too) that can utilize LRMs: the Ebon Jaguar. This is what I came up with. This is not the strongest LRM EBJ build you can get, but it's versatile with its 2xUAC/2. The volley damage is less than that of a Catapult, but sustained DPS is on par and even higher. With the speed of over 80 kph and two UACs this EBJ can flank, apply mid-range damage, finish off stragglers and even brawl if it has to just as well as sit behind a safe hill and rain fire down on the enemy mechs. At least that's how it works in my mind - I might be missing something because right now it looks too good to be true.

Please share your thoughts, critique my build and help me pick my first great mech that I will purchase and work on leveling up. The reason I post about it so much is because C-bills come n slowly and it'll be a long time before I can afford the next mech. So I must choose wisely.

P. S. Why can't I equip EBJ with jump jets?



Honestly, both mechs are viable choices, it really depends on what you want to do with them. Another thing to keep in mind is that if you decide to get involved with CW, your choice of mech is impacted. After all, you can't be piloting an Ebon Jaguar while you're defending the inner sphere from the clanners, or vice versa.


Other than that, the EBJ is one of the more flexible clan heavies out there, and because clan tech is so light, it can do what the Catapult does in many respects.


Honestly, if it was a flat choice between both, I would have a hard case to make for why you'd pick the CPLT over the EBJ. The A1 is the only catapult that can boat missiles better than the EBJ, the C1, and C4 will have a hard time competing (they have better quirks for missiles, so they can compete, but I'm thinking past just the builds). The only other thing that can affect your decision is firing modes. IS LRMs are much more effective in bombardment mode, and at countering enemy AMS. Clan LRMs are bout 50% less effective at dealing with AMS than IS ones, because of their stream fire mode. So a clan LRM boat can lose half it's salvo to massed AMS, while an IS LRM boat can brute force their way through enemy AMS by launching a big salvo in one go.


Now I have to ask: Why the UAC 2s? You could have easily fit 3 MLs in there (EBJ-B Left Arm, and EBJ-Prime Left Torso), instead of the UACs, with tonnage to spare.


One thing you also have not thought about is the fact that your ballistic weapons will not synchronize with your missiles. It's the same reason we don't group ballistics with lasers: Leading shots.

In order for your missiles to maintain lock on target, you have to keep your reticle on target. If you keep your reticle on target, and they are moving, you can't fire your UACs, because your shots will land behind your target, or hit sections you're not aiming for. If you lead your shots, and aim ahead of your target, so your bullets land, you will lose lock, and your missiles won't work. So that sustained DPS reading is actually off.

Plus, while the lasers can generate a lot of heat, they are not ammo dependent, allowing you to pick either more LRM ammo, or more DHS, or whatever else you want. Consider something like this, for example.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 06 February 2016 - 10:15 AM.


#12 Chocowolf Sradac

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 10:17 AM

For most Players and the Quirk system Inner sphere is more friendly to start with then Clan mechs

The Catapult is a good missle support platform though if you wanted to go Splat with Srms or streaks the missle pods are very large targets which any experienced player will target. The Key to being a successful pilot is using your mobility to missle barrage from one location then move to other locations to keep the enemy guessing and to eliminate cover from your missles. If you wanted go short range the key to being successful is the element of surprise hitting the unsuspecting mech with a high damage alpha of srms before they know what just hit it. Being an Inner sphere mech you can't change off hardpoints like you can the Clan Omni-mechs so you are stuck with the hardpoints given. The more direct fire variants like the K2 and Jester are quite good IS heavies with the current Quirks for them.

The Ebon jag is a great versatile clan mech that can successfully mount a good variety of combos. A lot of the more successful builds all use direct fire weapons and not Lrms mounting gauss or a decent sized ballistic with a bunch of lasers to back it up. It does have great high mounts for hill poking however the mech does not have JJs and as clan heavy is quite squishy compared to the heavier tonned Timberwolf.

Edited by Chocowolf, 06 February 2016 - 10:27 AM.


#13 DavidStarr

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 10:28 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 06 February 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

Now I have to ask: Why the UAC 2s? You could have easily fit 3 MLs in there (EBJ-B Left Arm, and EBJ-Prime Left Torso), instead of the UACs, with tonnage to spare.

No particular reason, I guess. I just like the weapon. And it seems to produce higher DPS for the same heat level. I might be wrong, but it makes sense since it uses ammo as a balancing factor.

#14 IraqiWalker

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 10:43 AM

View PostDavidStarr, on 06 February 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

No particular reason, I guess. I just like the weapon. And it seems to produce higher DPS for the same heat level. I might be wrong, but it makes sense since it uses ammo as a balancing factor.

You're not wrong. It's just that the weapon system won't synergize with your missiles -when you're using both weapon systems-, as mentioned in my above post. Thus affecting your mech's overall sustained DPS.

By the way, if you're going with class 2s I'd recommend using the regular ACs, instead of the UAC version. Class 2s are the only ones where the UAC version doesn't have a clear DPS advantage over the regular AC. Because of the high rate of fire, the jam chance on the UAC 2 actually makes it do less sustained DPS than the regular AC.

5, 10, and 20 have such a long cooldown that the ultra version will have the DPS edge easily. Experiment with both the UAC 2, and regular AC 2, if you decide to go with the EBJ, and see which one fits you better.

#15 Leone

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 11:45 AM

I actually prefer a two Lrm Ebon Jag build.

View PostLeone, on 04 February 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

EBJ-With Lrms Cuz someone hasta suggest it.

2xLrm15 With Artemis
7 Tonnes ammo there-for
5xSpl
1xams with 1 tonne ammo
6 Extra DHS
Full armour

~Leone.


If you want three lrm 15s I find the Stormcrow works better for more speed, or the Timberwolf for better backup weaponry.

The idea behind the Small pulse back up is, well, lrms start losing effectiveness at 180m. Small pulse is fully effective at 165m. They cover each other pretty darn well.

~Leone

#16 DavidStarr

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 01:03 PM

View PostLeone, on 06 February 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

I actually prefer a two Lrm Ebon Jag build.

Can't... resist... dropping 2 lasers for 1 more LRM 15...
Seriously, 3 x LRM 15 + 3 x SPL looks just right to me!

#17 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 01:41 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 06 February 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

By the way, if you're going with class 2s I'd recommend using the regular ACs, instead of the UAC version. Class 2s are the only ones where the UAC version doesn't have a clear DPS advantage over the regular AC. Because of the high rate of fire, the jam chance on the UAC 2 actually makes it do less sustained DPS than the regular AC.

while you are not wrong, the AC2 costs about 20% more and takes up 3 slots to 2 for the UAC2, unless you tap the mouse it will never fire the second shot thus never jam, I would not advise the cAC2 over the cUAC2unless someone mentioned wanting to be able to bash the fire button and not jam.

#18 DavidStarr

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 02:05 PM

View PostLeone, on 06 February 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

I actually prefer a two Lrm Ebon Jag build.

BTW, that thing is EBJ-B with EBJ-C and Prime parts. Does it mean I must purchase all 3 variants to be able to build it?

#19 epikt

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 02:43 PM

View PostDavidStarr, on 06 February 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

BTW, that thing is EBJ-B with EBJ-C and Prime parts. Does it mean I must purchase all 3 variants to be able to build it?

Nope, you can buy omnipods even if you don't own the variants (in the "omnipod" tab of the mechlab)

#20 Leone

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 03:22 PM

Aha! So. Omnipods. They can be sold separately. Me? I prefer to get all three mechs, then mix an match the pods, cuz I'm cheap, but you can just buy an omnipod separately. Check the loadouts section, one of the tabs should be for omnipods.

As for three lrms 15s an three small pulse, well, it is your mech after all, I'm just an aggressive player, whose always moving forwards. ^__^v

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 06 February 2016 - 03:22 PM.






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