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Attack, Do Not Defend


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#1 Javin

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 03:30 PM

Davion is an awesome House. We have loyalty, some excellent units, and most new players start in Davion. We are one of the largest factions. Even with all these advantages, we are losing planets every timezone. Why? We only defend.

Defending loses planets. Why?

We have the largest amount of PUGs in MWO. By far the most new players. These new players are enthusiastic and want to play. They go where the fight is and they lose. This is not to say all our pugs are bad, we have some good ones. Many simply do not have the mechs, experience, or sometimes, the skill to win. Sadly, if you lose on defense you help lose a world. If you win on defense you can only break even. No matter how many 12 man organized groups we have defending, our pugs will lose the planet for us.

If you attack, the enemy faction has to win or they start losing their planet. If you win on attack and counter attack we can gain worlds. If you lose, oh well, we lose nothing. If you win one but lose the other you break even. You get the same c-bills and exp, just no lost planets.

I hope this explains why attacking is better.

As one former Davionite said:

"Filling the attack queue is literally what separates successful factions from the rest."

Davion has lost by far the most territory out of the inner sphere. Let us attack and show the strength and will of our great House.

Edited by Javin, 25 February 2016 - 03:55 PM.


#2 MischiefSC

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 05:47 PM

All true.

Another good bonus -

Don't drop in 12s. Make 8mans and drop in attack queue. You'll fill 4 pugs who you can the train and develop and point to the faction TS.

Davion is the Southern FRR. Beset by numerous enemies and no real allies, just people more or less likely to attack.

Training up pugs is slow, laborious and thankless work. Plenty will never listen and never get better. Those who do however will improve, integrate and strengthen the House. Davion has spent a year bootstrapping up and is a damn sight better now than it was 10 months ago.

Training our pugs is the same sort of thing. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Splitting wheat from chaff, helping get people to faction TS and some skill fundamentals for them to build on. There is no easy future for Davion. We've got 4 borders and 3 are hostile. We have no Clan front to farm to pull skittles. The only fights we get are tough ones. We need to be focused on attacking and on pulling our puggles up as many notches as we can so our population becomes a benefit, not a detriment.

But yeah. For the love of God get in the attack queue. If you're in the defense queue it is either a) all our called attack worlds are sewn up or b ) you're doing it wrong.

#3 GI Journalist

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 09:27 PM

Thanks for confirming that CW is still broken, and gives players no real reason to participate in a way that forms matches between live opponents, since only attacks are rewarded.

I guess we'll see you again on the Liao border if and when PGI changes this system to something that encourages units to both attack and defend. See you then.

#4 Surn

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 09:57 PM

Vs clan timberwolfs, it is near impossible to defend 4 waves of objective rushes. They are too fast, armored and have too much firepower... By the third wave of an even battle they simply overwhelm the objective.

It is not that Davion pugs are the worst in the game, cough, it is that it is that PGI has made this game intentionally over balanced in favor of clan mechs...

#5 DevlinCognito

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 06:51 AM

Clans are overpowered? No. This is the most balanced Clan/IS have been. A Clan team will have just as much trouble stopping a dedicated IS Assault gen rush, seen that over and over again.

It's organisation that is overpowered, ALL Factions need to start trying to organise their puggles, or at least point them in the right direction so those who want to learn can. A good start is getting them to Attack, then they can start to see the benefits of grouping up and getting organised and actually building a community.

It's just finding those that WANT to learn and get better that is the hard part.

#6 Koshirou

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 06:58 AM

View PostGI Journalist, on 27 February 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:

Thanks for confirming that CW is still broken, and gives players no real reason to participate in a way that forms matches between live opponents, since only attacks are rewarded.



#7 guyvii

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 07:09 AM

[color=#959595]It is not that Davion pugs are the worst in the game, cough, it is that it is that PGI has made this game intentionally over balanced in favor of clan mechs... [/color]

Clans are suppose to be better. I wish they would start a bidding process for the clans so they have to drop with less weight to get any bonus'. But then the clan would have to care about the said bonus, otherwise, they would ignore it for the planetary win.

#8 DevlinCognito

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 07:50 AM

Clans are NOT supposed to be better in a multi-player game, they are supposed to be different. This isn't Table-top where things can be balanced that way.

This isn't a thread about Clan/IS balance or lack of, if you wish to discuss that, feel free to post in one of the umpteen threads already up about it. Seriously, throw a rock somewhere and you'll hit one.

#9 MischiefSC

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 11:42 AM

There's plenty of rewards to defending, especially if you're an organized team.

The point however is that at a faction level, a faction like Davion that's constantly under attack on 3 fronts needs to focus first and foremost on the attack queue. Since attackers are generally organized units the smartest choice is for pugs to fill the ATTACK queues (especially with smaller unit groups to build around) and the 12mans to go defense.

That would be ideal.

Davion suffers a lot because it's got a ton of pugs that the units in Davion see little direct interaction with unless the pugs get on TS and everyone fills the defense queue. This creates a situation where the absolute best possible situation for Davion is to tread water. There's a few nights a week where some units get together (WNW being a great example) and fill the attack queue but largely the Davion population gets in the defense queues.

This effectively assures that Davion is going to slowly but steadily lose ground.

#10 El Bandito

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 05:52 AM

Finally, Attack is easier to pull off than Defense, which is very illogical in terms of real warfare.

Invasion is easier than defending, since all the invaders have to do is to spend 48 mechs to destroy the generators.

Hold territory is easier than counter-attacking, since the planet defenders have to destroy Omega in addition to getting more kills than the invaders.

PGI should keep that in mind for CW phase 3.

#11 ArmandTulsen

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 12:07 PM

This is very important for CW, and OP makes good points.

Every planet we're attacking is another planet we don't have to worry about defending immediately. It's always better to put the opposition on the defensive. If they're constantly worrying about their planets, attacking us is going to be down the list.

#12 Tasker

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 12:14 PM

Just admit that the real reason you don't want to queue up on defense is that you understand & admit that your best defense against being crushed by superior Kuritan warriors is to force them to ghost drop all night.

#13 ArmandTulsen

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 12:22 PM

View PostTasker, on 23 March 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

Just admit that the real reason you don't want to queue up on defense is that you understand & admit that your best defense against being crushed by superior Kuritan warriors is to force them to ghost drop all night.


Did you just like your own post? lol

#14 Tasker

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 12:37 PM

Yes I did just like my own post. I like this one, too!

#15 dervishx5

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 12:43 PM

View PostArmandTulsen, on 23 March 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:


Did you just like your own post? lol


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#16 MischiefSC

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 02:26 PM

View PostTasker, on 23 March 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

Just admit that the real reason you don't want to queue up on defense is that you understand & admit that your best defense against being crushed by superior Kuritan warriors is to force them to ghost drop all night.


OR you could queue up to defend your worlds and Davion will queue up to attack all night.

I'm not sure the 5 drops a week NKVA shows up for, 3 of them defending against Wolf, are motivating Davion tactical decisions.

#17 ArmandTulsen

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 06:34 PM

Everybody is so damn afraid of the 12-man pre-made boogeyman that nobody f'ing drops in attacks.

I'm seeing a lot of people queue up for defense games. That's like inviting people to come and invade you.

#18 MischiefSC

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 06:50 PM

View PostArmandTulsen, on 23 March 2016 - 06:34 PM, said:

Everybody is so damn afraid of the 12-man pre-made boogeyman that nobody f'ing drops in attacks.

I'm seeing a lot of people queue up for defense games. That's like inviting people to come and invade you.


Which is stupid because dropping defense is what gets you 12mans to play against.

#19 Carl Vickers

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 07:06 PM

You would think people getting stomped by 12 mans would then go why dont I join a unit so I can be in the 12 man doing the stomping.

Definition of Insanity - repeating the same action and expecting a different result

#20 MischiefSC

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 04:03 AM

View PostCarl Vickers, on 23 March 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

You would think people getting stomped by 12 mans would then go why dont I join a unit so I can be in the 12 man doing the stomping.

Definition of Insanity - repeating the same action and expecting a different result


Don't even have to join.

Just get on faction TS, drop with a group.





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