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Phoenix Hawk Assessment


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#141 Rock Roller

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 09:53 AM

Agreed on the weapon buff. The load outs are definitely under the competition by a big margin.

#142 Stuffer

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 11:09 AM

They forgot to add more structure to the arms on the -1B though. Not really sure why when every other PXH got it.

#143 FrozenAnt

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 12:57 PM

I guess the figured that the hard point diversity +ECM was "too powerful?" And by "too powerful" I mean compared to the other SH's not vs the rest of the mechs in MWO...

#144 jss78

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 02:34 PM

View PostStuffer, on 21 July 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

They forgot to add more structure to the arms on the -1B though. Not really sure why when every other PXH got it.


Maybe they figured it doesn't rely as much on the arms, as unlike other PXH's (other than 1K) it actually has a torso mounted weapon. Though only one hardpoint...

I'm going to agree this 'mech needs some additional weapon quirks. It'll never compete as a boat for short-range guns, so at least make it relatively good with a handful of big guns.

Now I like the arm structure quirks, an additional option would be to carefully increase structure quirks further.

I can guess what PGI's thinking with the quirks. Try and differentiate it from e.g. Blackjack by giving it mobility quirks over weapon quirks. BJ for fire support, PXH for sneaky-scouty stuff. It's just that the good guns rule in the game...

#145 Rock Roller

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 02:52 PM

I would like to see something like the following: These are for example and could be modified. It seems that similar quirks are out there now and these would bring the mech at least up towards the middle of the pack.

Energy builds:
-10% energy cool down, -10% energy heat generation and +10% energy range. Something on this order of magnitude would be at least relevant.

UAC flavored build:
-30% UAC AC/5 jam, +20% ballistic velocity and +10% ballistic range. Make for something interesting for the ballistic hardpoints.

#146 FrozenAnt

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:29 AM

I'm almost convinced the only way to make the PH fit into a unique roll and give it the viability it needs is by giving it a speed increase quirk of 5%-15% and lowering the max engine rating. There is a ton of reasoning behind this I won't put up in a wall of text. But Imagine a PH with an XL300+6JJ+ECM going 120~135sh with 13 tons of weapon space. Enough for an AC5/ultra and some med lasers. That almost lets you forget about the hitboxes. Now there is a skirmisher. No weapon buffs, or redesign required.

#147 Tamagoci

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 03:38 AM

I really don't understand all the bad press this mech is receiving, it's one of the best light hunters and harassers in the game. It doesn't have the capacity to put out 1000dmg, but it has the capacity to tie down a whole lance of mechs and thus play a pivotal role in the battle. Try to forget about PHX thas firing in your flank and you're a goner, if you focus to much on it you don't notice a whole assault lance closing on your position.

And yes it doesn't play like a medium, it plays like a light.

#148 FrozenAnt

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 05:54 AM

It's not that it's bad, it just hasn't been developed enough in terms of quirks and things in order to be good.

If you ignore any mech on your flank it will tear you apart. Even a locust or spider will rip through rear armor if you don't do something about it. If 50-55 tonner like a griffin, enforcer, or any clan medium decides to turn on you, you don't have the speed to get away. JJ's help, but they can tear through your armor before you've put any distance

It is alright at light hunting, I would call it more of light discouraging. Lights are going to be clocking in at 135+. You'll be topping out at 120 if you want to bring any kind of firepower. You have the agility to hit them, so once they see they are getting hit they will peel off and you can chase for a little bit, but most of the time they can get away. Striker lights like jenners can be dangerous to the PH though, yes you have a little bit more armor but you are a bigger target, slower, less agile and almost equal in firepower.

The PH is close, I really feel it just needs a little more speed for engine size. XL300 at 125. enough to get away from mediums, fast enough to keep a pace

#149 Rock Roller

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 08:48 AM

View PostTamagoci, on 25 July 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

I really don't understand all the bad press this mech is receiving, it's one of the best light hunters and harassers in the game. It doesn't have the capacity to put out 1000dmg, but it has the capacity to tie down a whole lance of mechs and thus play a pivotal role in the battle. Try to forget about PHX thas firing in your flank and you're a goner, if you focus to much on it you don't notice a whole assault lance closing on your position.

And yes it doesn't play like a medium, it plays like a light.


Most of the bad press was from the initial release. After the patch it is MUCH better. The arms almost fell off at first. Then you lost ALL your weapons. They buffed the arms structure and it's in a much better place.

Currently the chassis is still not on par with others but is a ton of fun to play.

Edited by Rock Roller, 25 July 2016 - 08:49 AM.


#150 Aethermech

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 03:31 PM

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f3d0b4649886412

This has been my go to PXH build for the 1B. It's way more fun than i should be having in a 45t mech. It poptarts well enough with the single ERppc in the torso, yes it's light on the sniping damage but it does good enough work and when you get close you have the ER and the ML to fend off the wolves abit. Just gotta pay attention to where your team is going. Though on Alpine i did manage to distract and delay an entire team while the rest of my team flanked them. i only did 350'ish damage but it was a full on stomp.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c21f5e96751decd

And this has been hands down the most fun i've had playing this game. It's firepower is dismal, it doesn't have any JJ but damn all you gotta do is tap the Masc and boom you're at top speed and you can chase dreams and Jenners with it all day long. Is it frail hell yeah, does it have issues with being relevant yes, is it fun to almost hit the speed cap and watch weird graphic bugs and physics issues pop up, YUP.

#151 jss78

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 03:40 PM

View PostAethermech, on 25 July 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f3d0b4649886412

This has been my go to PXH build for the 1B. It's way more fun than i should be having in a 45t mech. It poptarts well enough with the single ERppc in the torso, yes it's light on the sniping damage but it does good enough work and when you get close you have the ER and the ML to fend off the wolves abit. Just gotta pay attention to where your team is going. Though on Alpine i did manage to distract and delay an entire team while the rest of my team flanked them. i only did 350'ish damage but it was a full on stomp.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c21f5e96751decd

And this has been hands down the most fun i've had playing this game. It's firepower is dismal, it doesn't have any JJ but damn all you gotta do is tap the Masc and boom you're at top speed and you can chase dreams and Jenners with it all day long. Is it frail hell yeah, does it have issues with being relevant yes, is it fun to almost hit the speed cap and watch weird graphic bugs and physics issues pop up, YUP.


The latter one, you only have to drop to XL-340 and strip half a ton of armour (most from head, just a couple points from legs) to be able to equip all 6 JJ's. Maybe worth it, as you only lose about 5 km/h for huge jump ability, but then I'm a JJ junkie.

I like the 1B build. I'm running basically the same except with XL270 and 3xMPL, but I feel like yours is probably better.

#152 Aethermech

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 04:02 PM

View Postjss78, on 25 July 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:


The latter one, you only have to drop to XL-340 and strip half a ton of armour (most from head, just a couple points from legs) to be able to equip all 6 JJ's. Maybe worth it, as you only lose about 5 km/h for huge jump ability, but then I'm a JJ junkie.

I like the 1B build. I'm running basically the same except with XL270 and 3xMPL, but I feel like yours is probably better.


As for getting some JJ in the 3s, I actually prefer the speed to jump on the setup. I tried with about 5 engines and JJ and MGs but ended up just taking the speed and seeing where I got. It keeps up with the lights good enough to back them up in a fire fight and it makes capping in conquest easy.
1B is an odd bird. Yours is probably better but hotter. I run mine more to get some damage in at range and to rip ecm coverage off mechs. I tend to be too trigger happy with the drop so I run hot all the time but most of the time I'm biting off way more than I can chew in the thing. I know for a fact I play super aggressively and some times it pays out but most of the time it makes for an epic if not disappointing death due to being a *******. I'm trying to teach myself control with the 1B more than anything.

#153 Bud Crue

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 04:21 PM

Now that I have the three I kept mastered, I have more of a feel for these (see my previous posts above if interested).

Still hate em. Only mech I hated mastering more was the loyalty Wolverine.

Bit of extra speed does not make up for lower hard points and fragility. ECM and Masc doesn't make enough of a difference to make them worth while either (admittedly I lack the patience to be a hide and poker that the 1B should excel at). Maybe they will grow on me over time but I doubt it. I'll take even the newly nerfed BJ over these things any day. For those of you enjoying them, I envy you. Different stroke for different folk and all that.

#154 Aethermech

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 04:34 PM

View PostBud Crue, on 25 July 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

Now that I have the three I kept mastered, I have more of a feel for these (see my previous posts above if interested).

Still hate em. Only mech I hated mastering more was the loyalty Wolverine.

Bit of extra speed does not make up for lower hard points and fragility. ECM and Masc doesn't make enough of a difference to make them worth while either (admittedly I lack the patience to be a hide and poker that the 1B should excel at). Maybe they will grow on me over time but I doubt it. I'll take even the newly nerfed BJ over these things any day. For those of you enjoying them, I envy you. Different stroke for different folk and all that.


I agree. Some mechs are just not for everyone. I've always enjoyed what should "bad or sub-standard". In WoT I racked up an unimaginable number of games in light tanks. Last I checked I had something like 40k games of which 25k were tier 5-8 light tanks. I think part of the fun for me in the PXH is the suicidal feeling of it.

#155 Rock Roller

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 05:04 PM

View PostAethermech, on 25 July 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

As for getting some JJ in the 3s, I actually prefer the speed to jump on the setup. I tried with about 5 engines and JJ and MGs but ended up just taking the speed and seeing where I got. It keeps up with the lights good enough to back them up in a fire fight and it makes capping in conquest easy.
1B is an odd bird. Yours is probably better but hotter. I run mine more to get some damage in at range and to rip ecm coverage off mechs. I tend to be too trigger happy with the drop so I run hot all the time but most of the time I'm biting off way more than I can chew in the thing. I know for a fact I play super aggressively and some times it pays out but most of the time it makes for an epic if not disappointing death due to being a *******. I'm trying to teach myself control with the 1B more than anything.


I found I want both JJ and speed. I have spent a ton on engines for this mech. Finally ended with 4 different units with 4 engines. PHX-1 with a 325, PHX-K with a 330, PHX-1b with a 280 and 3ERLs (second favorite) and my favorite the PHX-2 with a 310. The other engine that works well for me is the XL300. Depending on the load out the 300 is a great compromise with weight vs speed.

The unit cant stand toe to toe with most mediums from a firepower or durability standpoint. I found the stock XL270 the absolutely lowest engine I would want and really not enough. Speed = Life, very true for the Phoenix Hawk.

Most effective for my play style PHX.
[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5a0c293e289aa16[/smurfy]

Edited by Rock Roller, 08 August 2016 - 10:31 PM.


#156 Clydewinder

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 08:19 PM

View PostTamagoci, on 25 July 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

I really don't understand all the bad press this mech is receiving, it's one of the best light hunters and harassers in the game. It doesn't have the capacity to put out 1000dmg, but it has the capacity to tie down a whole lance of mechs and thus play a pivotal role in the battle. Try to forget about PHX thas firing in your flank and you're a goner, if you focus to much on it you don't notice a whole assault lance closing on your position.

And yes it doesn't play like a medium, it plays like a light.


this is exactly what I have discovered as well

#157 frogczar

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 08:38 AM

I love the PHX, always have. It really does play like a "super-light" as some have already stated.

I run my PHX-1(S) with two large lasers, 1 medium laser and 3 MGs. Take the biggest XL I can fit, Endo, Ferro and that leaves room for 4 JJ which is barely enough.

It's a great harasser and flanker. It has the speed and nimbleness to escape a combined push as well.

I hate losing my weapons when my arms get blown off, but until they introduce death from a above damage and kicking, that's what we're stuck with.

I really love my 'Hawk.

#158 Chados

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:18 PM

Oddly, I'm doing as well in a superstock PHX-1 as I am in anything else. The amount of derp in the solo queue is unreal right now, what with the event. The Pixie is agile. And I'm not seeing the comparo to lights...I get squashed like a bug when I drive the immortal Arctic Cheetah but my Pixie seems to be able to survive. I know it's thought of as worse than a Vindicstor and I can see that. It's flimsy and has little space for weapons. But I can't help but like it. It's a real underdog. Love to see those arms get armor quirks but it won't happen.

#159 Rock Roller

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:04 PM

View PostChados, on 19 August 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

Oddly, I'm doing as well in a superstock PHX-1 as I am in anything else. The amount of derp in the solo queue is unreal right now, what with the event. The Pixie is agile. And I'm not seeing the comparo to lights...I get squashed like a bug when I drive the immortal Arctic Cheetah but my Pixie seems to be able to survive. I know it's thought of as worse than a Vindicstor and I can see that. It's flimsy and has little space for weapons. But I can't help but like it. It's a real underdog. Love to see those arms get armor quirks but it won't happen.


:) They just got a arm structure buff. It's +12 vs +7 at launch. It's tons better than it was. I am spending a ton of time in my PHX-2 and doing quite well. Play as a light, flanker and support/ guard for bigger boys. Also with 1 LL and 3 MPL, a XL310 you can do all that and hunt Lights when needed. Max armor and JJs help you stay in the game. Avoid face to face fights.

#160 Chados

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 05:10 AM

I'm amazed at how well it often does. A Raven and I actually took on a Black Widow and I got the killing blow, a solo kill, and MDD credit, and made it out yellow all over and cored CT. Those six jets make a difference. I've been ambushed by Timberwolves on HPG in the platform and jumped down and out of it. I've outrun a pack of angry teddy bears and led them into two hungry King Crabs and an AC5 Mauler. I've hunted Jenners and LRMboats. I've hidden behind a group of Executioners and pinged away with my large laser or mediums, and found that they make killer meat-shields. I've hidden on top of walls, behind rocks, and and all sorts of places that only Shadowcats and Pixies really can get to. You can get on top of the wall in HPG in a single bound and man, you draw a crapton of aggro up there!

I can't believe I'm having this much fun in a mech that's worse than a Vindicator! My damage average is in the basement but it feels like a different game. I'm actually starting to see what all the Jennerites have been preaching about this playstyle. It's as inconsistent as LRMing is but draws a *lot* less aggro overall, and suddenly the 30-ton crowd isn't interested in taking you on anymore. I got the PHX standard pack in a lucky ilikerice giveaway, and supplemented with the (S) because I dig the blue and white livery. Stupid reason to drop a double sawbuck, I grant. But good Lord, it's becoming one of my favorite rides despite the .6 KDR it has! Never saw that coming. It's like discovering the Jester all over again. I'm even worse with the Jester but despite its many flaws and fragility I love it too; it is the mech I learned how to fight direct-fire combat in. And the PHX is like a Jester with less gun and more go. It's teaching me about mobility.

I've got mechs with a KDR of 2.2 that aren't this much fun.

Edited by Chados, 20 August 2016 - 05:14 AM.






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