Jump to content

Phoenix Hawk Assessment


189 replies to this topic

#161 Aramuside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 998 posts

Posted 06 September 2016 - 05:02 AM

I’m just finishing levelling the PXH’s and I have to say in their current incarnation they’re fun. The ability to reposition so easily with its agility, speed, ECM, masc and jump jets is great but you’re incredibly vulnerable if you get caught out of cover. Ironically I’m not a fan of the two hero mechs but the KK is mainly my fault as my first build was very weak in hindsight and I’ve just not got around to changing it as I wanted to get more information on energy draw. They’re really strong at hugging cover, firing and then getting back to safety before much enemy fire comes in with their quirks. Where I tend to run into trouble is when I don’t get back into cover and try for just one more volley…..!

I don’t run heavy JJ btw just 1-2 for manoeuvrability and tend to be short range – AC10/3ML, 8 ML, 6 MP. Classic hit and fade medium striker. I do have the 1B set up as the classic right sided 3 ERLL sniper with ECM. Strangely I’m most affectionate of my 3S (AC10 and 3 ML) as despite really struggling to level it – 13 wins to 17 losses I still had 41 kills and it is really interesting to play. Downside is running out of ammo too frequently as so much weight is devoted to the masc!

In hindsight I use these a lot as heavier scouts and use a lot of advanced UAV's rather than my much loved blackjacks which are much more striker roles.

#162 Reno Blade

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blade
  • The Blade
  • 3,394 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 14 October 2016 - 12:47 AM

Hi all,

I am struggling very much with my Phoenix Hawks.
Using something like 2-5xML, 1x LP, 4-8xJJ and 2xDHS with XL 300-340 and ECM/Masc as base build on some, I am feeling the heat a lot more than on my Marauder (4x PPCs).

So far I tried
2x ML, 1xLP
5x ML, 1xLP +ECM
2x PPC + Masc
8x ML
on my builds (different variants)
but i just feel like paper when anyone is looking at me and don't feel like I do enough punch, but still overheat too fast.

Am I restrictred to 3x ERLL builds, or is there anything I can get out of them without trying to build a Vindicator 1AA (dual PPC) ?
Thanks.

#163 Aramuside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 998 posts

Posted 14 October 2016 - 05:38 AM

View PostReno Blade, on 14 October 2016 - 12:47 AM, said:

Hi all,

I am struggling very much with my Phoenix Hawks.
Using something like 2-5xML, 1x LP, 4-8xJJ and 2xDHS with XL 300-340 and ECM/Masc as base build on some, I am feeling the heat a lot more than on my Marauder (4x PPCs).

So far I tried
2x ML, 1xLP
5x ML, 1xLP +ECM
2x PPC + Masc
8x ML
on my builds (different variants)
but i just feel like paper when anyone is looking at me and don't feel like I do enough punch, but still overheat too fast.

Am I restrictred to 3x ERLL builds, or is there anything I can get out of them without trying to build a Vindicator 1AA (dual PPC) ?
Thanks.


I'll post my builds when I get home but I have had a lot of success with an AC10/3-4ML combo as its such an agile mech. Pop out from cover, fire and roll straight back in. I do use the 3ERLL and 8ML builds on two of mine.

Edited by Aramuside, 14 October 2016 - 05:42 AM.


#164 Aramuside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 998 posts

Posted 14 October 2016 - 08:46 AM

Classic couple first:

1B: Fast ECM capable 3ERLL sniper which can semi protect its weaponry with the left side plus peep really easily.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e88dc7904348117

1K: Fast and hard hitting with the classic 8ML, downside is you really need to hit and run as you're essentially knife fighting
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ac08302251e75ba

2: Slower than the last two but ECM and 6MPL provide hard hitting damage and an element of protection/utility
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6bdbe5a3d629c4a


Posted Image

Worked the angles and hugged walls constantly working the Kodiak, D-DC and Direwolf from the front...... Hard to explain really but the results showed why I love these mechs. Posted Image

The next two I was honestly surprised turned out to work very well. Both are AC10/3ML but one is faster and the other has MASC+an extra jumpjet. Not sure which I prefer.

1:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c4fa2fe1ced7cbd

3S:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...282b0c692e7ab36

The Roc IMO is easily the weakest chassis - I ran with a very fast brawler but it just doesn't have the precision or firepower of the 6 MPL or 8 ML or even the ability of the 1/3S to work an opponent. The best I could use (for my playstyle) was 3 MPL/2 SRM4:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0c2dc252a5eac32

The KK build I have wasn't good so I won't put it here - I'd run out of c-bills so could never afford to experiment with different XL engines. Well not after having bought 7 others and outfit all those mediums! I saw a few 4 Large Laser variants that fired paired so that might be a way to go. No personal experience though:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f0a4ff0843b2fcc

#165 Reno Blade

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blade
  • The Blade
  • 3,394 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 14 October 2016 - 12:59 PM

Thanks Aramusade!
I will see how my PHs will work with similar builds.
I guess I used too much weight on the Engine and JJets and had just too low amount of DHS and weapons.

#166 LT. HARDCASE

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Spear
  • The Spear
  • 2,680 posts
  • LocationDark Space

Posted 14 October 2016 - 03:58 PM

Objectively a mediocre mech. say this after having owned and mastered all but the Kuro.

This side of a Locust, it's the most agile, fun feeling mech in the game, which i what keeps me coming back to them.

Being so easy to disarm is what brings them down. They're simple too large of a target, to have all of the weapons in the arms.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 14 October 2016 - 03:59 PM.


#167 Chados

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,947 posts
  • LocationSomewhere...over the Rainbow

Posted 14 October 2016 - 06:29 PM

I only kept the PXH-1(S) from the collector pack, and stripped/sold the others after basics.

But the 1S is one of my top ten favorites. It's mastered. It's a superstock loadout, STD270, moved the LL to the left arm, put the two ML on the right, and added a machine gun for a total of three. Kept the six jets and added an AMS.

It's fun. It's objectively bad. So bad. But it's so much fun. It jumps everywhere. And it makes a decent scout, supporter, and light hunter. I've actually chased Oxides and Jenner IICs with it...successfully. It taught me how to jump-jet turn. I know everyone says they have bad hitboxes but considering that I normally run Riflemen, Dragons, Quickdraws, and Catapults...IS 60-tonners are where it is at for me...but supplemented with the occasional Marauder....I'm used to worse hitboxes than the Pixie has.

#168 Aramuside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 998 posts

Posted 15 October 2016 - 12:20 AM

View PostReno Blade, on 14 October 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

Thanks Aramusade!
I will see how my PHs will work with similar builds.
I guess I used too much weight on the Engine and JJets and had just too low amount of DHS and weapons.


Pleasure hopefully they help. I started your way but found that while the jump jets were useful for movement they didn't help enough for me personally in combat as the PXH isn't that small a target so being airborne isn't that great an escape maneuver it just helped me spread damage a bit in emergencies. As a contrast the agility was superb and the PXH gets a good height for JJ so I reverted to using them for mobility and positioning in combat which meant I could get away with 1-2.

#169 Aramuside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 998 posts

Posted 15 October 2016 - 01:09 AM

View PostLT. HARDCASE, on 14 October 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

Objectively a mediocre mech. say this after having owned and mastered all but the Kuro. This side of a Locust, it's the most agile, fun feeling mech in the game, which i what keeps me coming back to them. Being so easy to disarm is what brings them down. They're simple too large of a target, to have all of the weapons in the arms.


I'm of too minds - I totally agree with their size ergo why I don't use too many jump jets but I found the re-quirked version did well if you were always hugging cover. Get caught in the open and you're in a world of hurt. Its the same advice for a sniper etc - keep moving and don't keep peeping from the same location or you will lose those arms.

Edited by Aramuside, 15 October 2016 - 01:15 AM.


#170 The Basilisk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 4
  • Mercenary Rank 4
  • 3,062 posts
  • LocationFrankfurt a.M.

Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:46 AM

For me the key to get anywhere in a PXH on a regular basis is NOT to get below 250m.
Sure the "many smal energy wpns" loadouts score sometimes (every 3rd match maybe more seldom) exceptional results but the fact you can be onehitted by any SRM boat, LBX boat or twohitted by csmpl boats is what keeps me on distance to my enemys when driving PXHs.

My favorites are in this order:
-- PXH-1B
Excells on larger maps with broken terrain like turmaline, canyon and and frozen (even on terra its quite good if you get your team to stay out of suicide arena crater)
-- PXH-2 "risky"
To close range for my taste but if you stay within a bracked of 280 and 350m its quite fun to pop up fire and change position. Radardep for not beeing folowed when getting back into cover is mandatory.
-- PXH-2 meh
Less dmg but better range bracket. It performs pretty solid but is kind of boring.

-- PXH-3S yes I am serious its additional 2,24dps without heat and 160dmg potential totaly but the averange performance of this thing is quite unstable. Sometimes ppl will ignore you going for your bigger friends, sometimes they focus you for the fast and easy kill the moment you show your face.

-- PXH-1K a flightless bird....meh. Tried again and again with 6ML, 6MPL, 8SPL but regardless what you try in 4 of 5 cases you get focused and riped appart before beeing able to do meaningfull dmg. Only chance with this loadout is to do rearguard hunting lights and cocky meds and go emptyhanded in 50% of your matches.
-- PXH-1 the most unfun med I ever piloted

#171 Davy J0nes

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Corsair
  • The Corsair
  • 133 posts

Posted 15 October 2016 - 10:40 AM

Agreed about the phoenix hawk take away what was unique to the vinds which was ppc

the phoenix hawk can mount shoulder weapons + ecm and the ppc speed quirks as well as being faster then the vind.

its the phoenix hawk 1b isnt it?

I love the mech but yea poor vinds :D

#172 Nullmancer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 194 posts

Posted 15 October 2016 - 11:22 PM

I commented earlier in the thread, voicing my dislike of the quirks and whatnot. I had bought the basic pack with the 1, 1B and 1K. I've mastered the 1B first a long time ago, and i'm eliting the other two very, very slowly.

PXH-1B

I knew how I was going to build and play this variant when I decided to buy the pack. I have a VND-1AA build that is the exact same but with max jumpjets and more armor. I've been pretty successful with it and I'm doing fairly well with the 1B as well, the ECM is nice, well worth the difference in armor and jumpjets.

My PHX-1 however, is very much the same, 2 LPL's in the arm and bigger engine, no extra heatsinks. It's fun in its own way, but lacking in damage potential, but, it can work.

the 1K though, I'm not fond of it, I like jumpjets, a lot. It's got two LPL's in the arm and two Med lasers in the center torso, with a bigger engine. I play it very rarely.


Now, you probably noticed the similar build across all three variants, that is due to the aforementioned VND-1AA build and the fact that my Crabs, Cicada's, Firestarter's and Wolfhounds fill my Med pulse/small pulse/Med laser boating needs.

although i have been tempted to do it with the 1K.

you might've also noticed that each variant has the LPL's in the vulnerable arm. I've gotten disabled a few times now and it does suck, but it hasn't happened often enough to warrant a change. Gotta be the sly sniper and avoid notice, use cover and put accurate shots into red team's torso's unless arms and legs are worth it.


anyways, the PHX's I own aren't that bad I have to admit, I still wish they had more interesting and relevant quirks and I still despise the jumpjet vents. I have a new beef as well, you have a hard time seeing UAV's in your cockpit because of the weird bicycle helmet head being tilted down, obscuring what you would normally see in most other mechs.


But yeah, they aren't that bad and they aren't that good either, but I found a method to make 'em work.



View PostThe Basilisk, on 15 October 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

...
My favorites are in this order:
-- PXH-1B
Excells on larger maps with broken terrain like turmaline, canyon and and frozen (even on terra its quite good if you get your team to stay out of suicide arena crater)



may I suggest this as an optimization? PXH-1B

also, your 3S build, if you drop all heatsinks, get ferro and adjust the armor a bit, you can fit a 340 XL instead and still have 50% cooling, if you drop a jumpjet you can squeeze in a 345 instead. Also, machine guns and super cooling make your DPS look amazing, but in practice, it ain't. Something to be aware of.

Edited by Nullmancer, 15 October 2016 - 11:41 PM.


#173 Aramuside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 998 posts

Posted 16 October 2016 - 12:52 AM

View PostThe Basilisk, on 15 October 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

For me the key to get anywhere in a PXH on a regular basis is NOT to get below 250m.
Sure the "many smal energy wpns" loadouts score sometimes (every 3rd match maybe more seldom) exceptional results but the fact you can be onehitted by any SRM boat, LBX boat or twohitted by csmpl boats is what keeps me on distance to my enemys when driving PXHs.

My favorites are in this order:
-- PXH-1B
Excells on larger maps with broken terrain like turmaline, canyon and and frozen (even on terra its quite good if you get your team to stay out of suicide arena crater)
-- PXH-2 "risky"
To close range for my taste but if you stay within a bracked of 280 and 350m its quite fun to pop up fire and change position. Radardep for not beeing folowed when getting back into cover is mandatory.
-- PXH-2 meh
Less dmg but better range bracket. It performs pretty solid but is kind of boring.

-- PXH-3S yes I am serious its additional 2,24dps without heat and 160dmg potential totaly but the averange performance of this thing is quite unstable. Sometimes ppl will ignore you going for your bigger friends, sometimes they focus you for the fast and easy kill the moment you show your face.

-- PXH-1K a flightless bird....meh. Tried again and again with 6ML, 6MPL, 8SPL but regardless what you try in 4 of 5 cases you get focused and riped appart before beeing able to do meaningfull dmg. Only chance with this loadout is to do rearguard hunting lights and cocky meds and go emptyhanded in 50% of your matches.
-- PXH-1 the most unfun med I ever piloted


That is really weird as the 1K I get 1.65 avge kills a game with, only beaten by the 1 with 1.87. easily the most effective among the PXH's for me and ironically no ECM on either.

#174 The Basilisk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 4
  • Mercenary Rank 4
  • 3,062 posts
  • LocationFrankfurt a.M.

Posted 16 October 2016 - 01:47 AM

View PostAramuside, on 16 October 2016 - 12:52 AM, said:


That is really weird as the 1K I get 1.65 avge kills a game with, only beaten by the 1 with 1.87. easily the most effective among the PXH's for me and ironically no ECM on either.


Do you mean an averange or a median Posted Image
Never mind its statistical nitpicking.
As I said in the beginning, when it runs well, and if you get the right team and if you get the right map, and if you get the right enemys you can get your 4-6 kills and 400+ dmg.
Since you always can die only once (and taking one with you to stay at least even isn't that difficult even in a PXH) getting an "statistical" averange over 1.5 isn't realy difficult, a very good game will outwight 3 or 4 bad ones.
(Thats also the problem with matchmaking and pilot skill rating or better known as playre tiers)

#175 Aramuside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 998 posts

Posted 16 October 2016 - 02:16 AM

View PostThe Basilisk, on 16 October 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:


Do you mean an averange or a median Posted Image
Never mind its statistical nitpicking.
As I said in the beginning, when it runs well, and if you get the right team and if you get the right map, and if you get the right enemys you can get your 4-6 kills and 400+ dmg.
Since you always can die only once (and taking one with you to stay at least even isn't that difficult even in a PXH) getting an "statistical" averange over 1.5 isn't realy difficult, a very good game will outwight 3 or 4 bad ones.
(Thats also the problem with matchmaking and pilot skill rating or better known as playre tiers)


I don't really agree as I play entirely solo or Faction. Any mech I average over 1.5 kills a match means I'm more than pulling my weight. Maybe you play assaults but I'm a medium pilot in 75%+ of my matches and all outside tournament are levelling only.

That or you're gods gift to MWO but if you're claiming that can I see some solo statistics to back that up please. Posted Image

In fact checking my statistics ... my JM6-DD which took 1st and 30th overall in the heavy tournament only has 2.27 Avge so yeah I rather doubt that 1.5 is easy claim.

Edit: In case you're not counting in the same way that's 170 kills in 75 matches for the DD.

Edited by Aramuside, 16 October 2016 - 02:42 AM.


#176 Bors Mistral

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 313 posts
  • LocationMontreal

Posted 16 October 2016 - 04:50 PM

I wish the one that doesn't have JJ had MASC, and that the sticking up geometry was modified the reflect that fact.

#177 S 0 L E N Y A

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,011 posts
  • LocationWest Side

Posted 17 October 2016 - 06:50 PM

I know I am in an extreme minority that thinks the PHX is actually pretty good. I only recently picked 3 of them up for c-bills, but I wasted no time in mastering them.

Rough idea of my stats with em:
PHX-1B (2x PPCs) win/loss: 1.33 kill/death: 1.75
PHX-2 (3x er-LL) win/loss: 1.67 kill/death: 1.70
PHX-3S (2x LgPls) win/loss 1:5 kill/death 1.83

So no, they are not a meta-shifting world beater, but when used to their strengths they can be quite good.

I should also mention that one of my favorite mechs is the ShadowCat, which I use exclusively as a mid-long range harasser. I essentially play the PHX fairly similarly (though I tend to stick closer to my team with the PHX) and have adapted well to it.

#178 WrathOfDeadguy

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Pest
  • The Pest
  • 1,950 posts

Posted 18 October 2016 - 08:17 AM

I don't think it's good, but it's a fun 'Mech and can pull its weight (assuming I don't derp hard and die early again). It carries enough guns to hurt, and despite being way too big the geometry actually isn't bad. They spread torso damage like nobody's business. Having all the weapons in the arms except on two variants is a bit of a downer, but it isn't all bad... the arms are reasonably good at shielding, which makes the chassis pretty survivable- it just comes down to a choice of which set of weapons you're going to sacrifice to the Blood God.

I've mostly been running the heroes and the 1(S) since getting them...

Configs so far:

PXH-R - My favorite. Way more effective than the first config I tried with it.
PXH-KK - Good, but a bit bland.
PXH-1(S) - Yes, I have MGs on it. I like pain, okay?
PXH-1 - ERLOL. I beliiieve I can flyyyy...
PXH-1B - High mount equals sniper. Kinda want to dump some sinks for more jets.
PXH-1K - Untested. Runs super cool in TG, even on the hot maps. Needs a bigger engine but I didn't have enough XL300s.
PXH-2 - What's to say? Speed is fun.
PXH-3S - All ahead full troll!

Config variety is goood. I've found the XL270 to be mostly satisfactory (or at least satisfactory enough to not run off and buy a whole bunch of new engines), but used larger engines where I had them to use (ie what I already had on hand) especially with the last two. Just couldn't resist. I wish I'd had a pair of XL355 engines sitting around instead of 350s, but it wasn't worth almost 12 million when I had two of the next best thing on hand. Still... dat 3S. Painted it red because da red wunz go fasta. Makes me want to load up some more JJs and play Kenny Loggins at full volume while rocketing off into the skyyyyyyy. PXH-2 is kinda like an IS version of the Ice Fridge, but with ECM, jets, and a face that doesn't make you want to punch babies.

They shall make excellent companions for my Vindicators.

#179 De Monte Alto

    Member

  • PipPip
  • The Ogre
  • The Ogre
  • 25 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationScotland

Posted 24 October 2016 - 06:44 AM

Took me a while to get used to the PH, but i have to admit after trying alot of different configs i have ended up really enjoying leveling (Mastering) up this class.
You have to be very forward thinking, about where you want and need to be to get the most out of its mobility. Its mobility has saved it many times from running into a group of heavies. And you have got to choose your fights right.

#180 De Monte Alto

    Member

  • PipPip
  • The Ogre
  • The Ogre
  • 25 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationScotland

Posted 24 October 2016 - 11:48 PM

PXH-2

Since buying this mech and leveling it, i found this to be just the right balance for this version.

I have just got into Tier 3 PuG play.And found that the role of this mech points more (for me) to Scout support, Scout Hunter, and Heavy / Assault (ECM) Support / fire hit and run.....loving it.

Chassis benefits from full armour, Ferro and Endo steel, and ECM. Possibly considering an XL 300 later.. PXH-2
Hot maps she can run close to shutting down if you alpha 2-3 times in close succession, so a cooling module is a must, plus a UAV for helping your team.
The 6 ML i fire in 2 groups of 3, so i can left / right click while poking or pop-tarting.

Edited by AshmanVi, 24 October 2016 - 11:53 PM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users