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Phoenix Hawk Assessment


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#21 STEF_

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 05:20 PM

View PostTarogato, on 27 February 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

I posted a few builds and variants here, if you're interested: http://mwomercs.com/...-in-mwo-builds/

Sadly u wrote "mediocre".
But, first of all, I'd wait for its quirks.
Then, "speed is life" and PXH is going to have 350xl possible. So not nearly close to the Vindy. Main reason Vindy sucks, it's because it's an easy target for faster mechs.
Then I hope, really HOPE, pgi will inflate energy hardpoints; because a relatively "light" mech that need high engine has few tonnage for weaponry. So, ballistic will suck in the PXH....

#22 stealthraccoon

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 07:32 PM

Max engine 355?! They really need to give something insane to the Vindicators, poor Capellan workhorses getting a seriously short end of the beat down stick :(

And I didn't think it would make it on the list, but that 1K might just be fun with 8 energy hardpoints - like a supersized TDK.

#23 BerserX

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 07:46 PM

Here's hoping PGI has a good moment of "Who cares?" when they design the 3D model and they give it a soldierly stance. I want to see a bunch of little 45 tonners running around firing rifles two-handed!

Posted Image

Please no one hate on me for posting a Battloid. I plan to purchase at least the Collector's Pack soon.

Edited by BerserX, 02 March 2016 - 07:47 PM.


#24 stealthraccoon

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 08:16 PM

View PostBerserX, on 02 March 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

Here's hoping PGI has a good moment of "Who cares?" when they design the 3D model and they give it a soldierly stance. I want to see a bunch of little 45 tonners running around firing rifles two-handed!

Please no one hate on me for posting a Battloid. I plan to purchase at least the Collector's Pack soon.


Would love hand held objects/weapons - that means one step closer to Hatchetman!!!

Edited by stealthraccoon, 02 March 2016 - 08:17 PM.


#25 Dawnstealer

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 08:29 PM

I'm just glad there's TWO of them that can mount 8 JJs. The CDA 3F is a ton of fun with that - damn near levitates.

#26 Phoenix2730

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 08:55 PM

I"ve been waiting for this mech since MWO came out....and it looks like PGI will do it justice. People are complaining about it's hardpoints, it's a classic mech that ALWAYS had it's weapons in it's arms! Hopefully, it will perform well, and with 2 ecm variants it has potential. Move fast, don't stop, jump a lot, and good aim should lead to some nice games in this mech.

#27 Steel Raven

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 10:08 PM

Speaking as someone who always found the 'Hawk kinda 'meh, this will be deadly in the right hands.

While easy to disarm ( Posted Image snare drum) it's still a jumpy 45 ton mech with two variants ECM.

The PHX-1 can mount 8 jj and may get some solid of quirks, the 1B and 1K have decent hard points.

Edited by Steel Raven, 02 March 2016 - 11:07 PM.


#28 PeeWrinkle

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 06:02 AM

The Phoenix Hawk will get me to open up the wallet once again. Just for nostalgia’s sake!

I like the speculation about how the mech will perform in this post, but the truth is there is no way to tell. Performance of all mechs (IMO) is 100% based on quirks. Yes hardpoints can play a factor, but if you quirk the mech so it has extra IS and Armor in those locations bad hardpoints are more than nullified (well except those that are extremely low so you never have a site adavantage).

That said, with a majority of the hardpoints in the arms people won’t be running this thing around with 4 points of armor in each arm. That means shaving armor will be limited.

I have started theory crafting a few and one thing I am starting to like is there seem to be a lot of flexibility. From that stand point I think it will end up being the preferred 45 ton mech. For example you can put in an XL 355 and have full FF with Endo and still have 11 tons of pod space. Making it rival the speed and firepower (or lack of) of the Ice Ferret. Depending on minimum engine size you can do just about any BJ or Vindy build on them as well.

So I guess from that stand point they would be the mech of choice at 45 tons over the others, but lets face it none of the 45 tonners are played competitively much (Shadowcat might be an exception I still see that in CW from time to time). That said I love playing them and still take them out very often, because I find all of them very fun.

My guess is this 45 tonner will not be any different. It will not be ultra-competitive, but will perform well enough and just be a lot of fun to play.

As I always like to say, there are no bad mechs in MWO, except the bad ones, but they are all fun! LOL.

#29 BerserX

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 07:45 AM

I think this will be a fine mech. I'm not at all a meta player (unless by occasional coincidence that the stars align such that my own theorized builds turn out to be the existing meta), so I tend to look for what's fun and different, while dependable. This mech will be awesome, even with the couple variants that only pack a couple of energy. The shear amount of engine and jumpiness will nullify any alpha or dps shortcomings. PGI has finally done justice to their initial "Role Warfare" idea in this chassis. You have awesome scouts, skirmishers, brawlers, and fire support all in this one chassis' variants!

Scout: ECM with JJ's and big engine
Skirmisher: quick, with JJ's and ERLL's (or maybe a UAC5)
Brawler: 8 ML, MPL, or SMPL
Fire Support: couple ballistic, lot of energy, or missile w/ energy backup

Regardless of actual hardpoints or meta whatnot, this is how I want to play this mech:

Posted Image

^^^ Anyone who's played this game knows what I mean. Posted Image

#30 Mole

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 08:20 AM

I dunno guys. I've got a weird Vindicator 1AA build that's not bad. But it's not great either. But it gives me the best results I've ever been able to achieve out of that chassis. Max XL engine, 4 medium pulse lasers, and 1 LRM 15. I feel like the Vindicators could be pretty decent if they had a couple more energy hardpoints.

#31 stealthraccoon

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 09:07 AM

View PostMole, on 03 March 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

I dunno guys. I've got a weird Vindicator 1AA build that's not bad. But it's not great either. But it gives me the best results I've ever been able to achieve out of that chassis. Max XL engine, 4 medium pulse lasers, and 1 LRM 15. I feel like the Vindicators could be pretty decent if they had a couple more energy hardpoints.


Vindicators NEED a 250 engine cap, preferably higher (275 would be reasonable and still give AA the edge).
For me they all need at least an extra missile point and the right arm should always have 2 energy.

#32 Mole

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 12:58 PM

View Poststealthraccoon, on 03 March 2016 - 09:07 AM, said:

Vindicators NEED a 250 engine cap, preferably higher (275 would be reasonable and still give AA the edge).
For me they all need at least an extra missile point and the right arm should always have 2 energy.

I agree. The only thing that makes my 1AA even close to viable is the fact that it can jet around at 114.2kph with its XL295 engine. The other two variants can't do that.Vindicators are fragile. If they are going to remain so fragile, then they need more speed to survive.

Edited by Mole, 03 March 2016 - 12:59 PM.


#33 Tanar

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 01:01 PM

originally I was just going to wait for it to come out for cbills, then I kept scrolling and the number of mechs kept increasing and by the time I got to the end my wallet had opened.

#34 Wildstreak

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 01:09 PM

Vindicator could be better with quirks and a higher engine cap on the 1R and 1X up to 250 for full True DHS in the engine and better speed & mobility. Despite its bad rep, it has better ability to run with no arms and still have weapons than most Phoenix Hawks.

1B also has ECM, comes at the $20 level and has a RT Energy mount.

3S may have MASC but only 3 Energy and 2 Ballistic.

Interesting how the -1 went with uneven hardpoints on the arms.

Main builds will be 3LL/LPL or ML/MPL boating.

KK seems meh, lose the 3S MASC for another Energy point.

Don't understand why the engine cap is so high.

#35 Steel Raven

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 02:36 PM

To compete with the Cicada, the Phoenix Hawk was always written up as a Medium built to do the job of lighter mechs (notable the Stinger and Wasp) The Cicada has been filling the same role in game up till now.

#36 Shadey99

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 05:18 PM

Scout Mediums, mediums that are fast and perform the scout role, were the command mech of a light recon lance in lore. Only a handful of mechs filled that slot and the Phoenix Hawk was an upgraded 'Wasp/Stinger' chasis meant to lead those two mechs on the battlefield.

Personally I think the edge in engine weight/mech tonnage means the Cicada will still be faster on average, with the speed tweak reduction the cicada has to get over the 300 XL hump (it's a 1.5t jump from 300 to 305), which kinda sucks. The XL 355 is a hefty 23t, or just over half the entire weight of a 45t mech. The Cicada has the same issue running it's max XL 340 (20.5t when it's 40t).

The 1K and 2 will probably rival the BJ-1X, with the 1K (which sans JJs really is like a BJ-1x with a higher engine cap) having the 2 CT lasers and the 2 having ECM. The 1K will run really hot though as it needs 8t more than an identical weight BJ-1X if it wants to use that XL355, I expect a 330 or 335 will be more common to shave of a bit of weight for more DHS. The 2 can also just manage to squeeze in 6 MPLs for 12t to rival the 6 MPL Crab-27B builds (which I do very well in), though it will probably run very hot doing so since it's 5 tons lighter than the Crab. The Crab with a 325 engine cap can also come fairly close speed wise to the PXH, so those two may go toe to toe...

#37 Reno Blade

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 06:16 AM

I never got a 3rd vindicator as they just felt too fragile and not strong enough.
Without the ability to use 2-3 SRM6 or to have more than 3 lasers, the builds are very limited.

I see the same problem for the PHawk, but at least it can use the tonnage for higher engine and run around like a h-armless chicken.

Maybe if the game finally changes away from boating with the new anti-alpha mechanic in place, mechs with less weapons like the 45t and 50t mechs have a place.

#38 Podex

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 11:23 AM

I haven't really cared much for PGI's bundles, but I had to bite the bullet on this one. They should be a whole lot of fun until you lose your arms. Then you're screwed. Really, really screwed.

My wife is going to kill me...



#39 Smedlee

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 09:04 AM

What are the two boxes on the back of the Phoenix Hawk? In the PGI model they look like racks or holsters.

#40 SirSoggyDog

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 07:50 PM

The PHX-2 and PHX-1K probably will be very solid mechs, and I think comparison to the Vindy is unfair. The better analogy (with these variants) is the BJ. The 1K can carry BJ-1X levels of firepower at higher speed, and while the mounts are lower, the PHX-2 very well overshadow the BJ-3 in many of its roles. More importantly, the PHX will probably be better able to shield its XL-laden torsos with its arms, and since those arms are fully articulated, the PHX may well be a good Cheeto hunter for later CW drops.

With this being said the only other variant that may even potentially be viable is the Roc, light ballistics are just far to useless for competitive play. The 1, 1B, Kiri, and even the 3S are going to need some serious firepower quirks if their destined to be anything other than bay queens.





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