Jump to content

Phoenix Hawk Assessment


189 replies to this topic

#81 Bluefalcon13

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 355 posts
  • LocationColorado Springs, CO

Posted 22 June 2016 - 04:34 AM

View PostAethermech, on 21 June 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

I would like to point out that this mech is only a plus sized light mech. the lore talks about it, the design looks like it, and the HP's and quirks support that fact. It was never meant to be a brawler medium or a fire base like some of the other IS mediums, it's a glorified command light mech. That said, i wouldn't under estimate the Pxh too much, i have a feeling that they are going to surprise alot of people in just how well they perform. Infact i can't wait to test out an erppc poptart sniper with the 1B. The fun (challenge) in trying to make that work has me super amped for this patch.


But.... but... but Jetfire took out Starscream...

#82 invernomuto

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Giant Helper
  • Giant Helper
  • 1,065 posts
  • LocationItaly

Posted 22 June 2016 - 04:39 AM

View PostDawnstealer, on 21 June 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

My view, too. I don't think it'll be zOMG THE MOST AMAZEBALLS MECH EVAR, but I think it'll be pretty good.


And we as a community should not foster expectations of iper quirks and super high hardpoints for each mech that PGI releases, otherwise we cannot whine for hardpoints&quirks inflation.
Not all new mech proposed should be the best of their class IMHO.

#83 Nullmancer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 194 posts

Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:02 AM

competitive though. We can expect mechs to be competitive and not flawed by design, which is I feel a reasonable expectation.

#84 762 NATO

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 312 posts
  • LocationUnder the desk of the Magestrix of Canopus

Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:07 PM

Dawnstealer can love his, and I can respect the hell out of him for it.

I parked mine. I cbilled a different medium and ran with it. Sub-100 damage matches are unacceptable if you live through the first 7 minutes. Until this crap-mech gets double arm armor and +50℅ leg armor, I am done with it.

To all the PHX drivers out there: I will happily take your arms and one leg and walk away from you.

GG WP Reds is all you will see out of me if I run them.

Edited by 762 NATO, 22 June 2016 - 11:11 PM.


#85 jss78

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 2,575 posts
  • LocationHelsinki

Posted 23 June 2016 - 01:13 AM

Tier 2 pug experience -- I'm getting pretty consistent good games out of mine.

Biggest plus: hitboxes feel superb, maybe against the expectation of some.

My feeling is the PXH is not particularly suited for the cookie-cutter, short-range "striker light" role. That play style requires a particular blend of speed, firepower and survivability, and while something like the ACH squarely hits the sweet spot, the PXH is just a bit too big, slow, and easy to take down.

I'm getting a lot of milage out of mine running them in something like a mobile fire-support mech. I'll take a decent but not huge engine (270-300 XL), max JJ, for weapons something like a pair of ERLL and something weight-efficient to improve the close-quarters alpha. I'll play around the group mainly, moving a lot to maintain safe firing locations. I'll occasionally use the decent speed to skirmish on the outskirts of the friendly group, but I'll not go too far.

Current favourite loadout for this play style is PXH-2. A bit like the "kite" Raven 3L, but though slower, has superb jump capability, excellent hitboxes, and looks awesome instead of goofy.

Funnily enough, played something like in tabletop -- jump from heavy woods to heavy woods, fire LL -- they work out for me.

#86 STEF_

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nocturnal
  • The Nocturnal
  • 5,443 posts
  • Locationmy cockpit

Posted 23 June 2016 - 01:15 AM

View PostKeshav Murali, on 21 June 2016 - 05:50 AM, said:


50%+ accel/decel/Twist and a 355 cap? That thing's gonna feel like a feather! Probably better than most of the (freshly) nerfed IS lights we'll get with the patch.

wow, so you like those quirks? really?
U do the feather while hoping none hits you...and you can barely shoot a few ... 'cause laughable weapons quirks.
Just wow.

#87 SlightlyMobileTurret

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Lance Corporal
  • 718 posts

Posted 23 June 2016 - 03:21 AM

I was just saying it's probably more agile than new IS lights, which is not praise for PXH, but cursing PGI.

#88 Dr Hobo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • Little Helper
  • 530 posts
  • LocationA cardboard box drinkin mah hooch.

Posted 23 June 2016 - 09:09 AM

I don't really like it compared to my Vindi.

I mean,I like it's handling,it drives great and it flies better. But everything else? Meh.

Then again,I'm a diehard Vindi lover(was my city mech of choice with a Hunchy 4G). It feels like an overglorified light,than a light medium like the Vindi does. I get that it's a different role,but the Vindi is slightly slower,less JJ,and the first 3 versions don't really compare up to an AA,SIB,or 1X

The energy variant without JJ,feels like a worse Firestarter. The SIB could outduel it probably due to the fact that it won't really overheat like the Phawk will. The AA does it better with PPC jump sniping and has a backup MLAS in the head that you don't have to worry about. And runs cooler. I tried the 3 ERLL but it feels like a meh Raven then. Raven is smaller,and easier to get around the map with. The 1X does ballistics better,and even the Wolverine at 10 tons heavier does it better too. I've tried an AC10 build,I might swap to a UAC5 and see how that feels. The 1X can dual AC5s and be a bit slower,but it's small enough(pre changes too) that it could get behind a bigger mech or cover easily.

I'm struggling to even pass 300 damage,yet I can hit 600(record is 1100 with the SIB) on a Vindi. I might have to play more in it,but so far it feels...meh. It's cool,it's an awesome reminder of what we have,and kicks the nostalgia right in the face,drives great,but everything else? Screams PVE mission runner.

Perhaps when I get it mastered,if I ever find fits that aren't all the same(because,that's boring!) I might like it. But so far? It's fun,but it doesn't do enough damage/survival in the field to make it worth the big packs cost(And so far boy am I glad I didn't get that.)

#89 Rock Roller

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hitman
  • The Hitman
  • 310 posts
  • LocationPacific North West USA

Posted 23 June 2016 - 10:13 AM

I would love to see some revised weapon quirks. The biggest issue I have is that it needs something. The mix of speed, size, durability and firepower just seems off. I think the speed, size and durability all balance themselves out after playing it a bit. I was hoping for a bit more in the way of durability but it is actually a decent balance.

Firepower is a bit underwhelming. I don't expect it to be at the top of the damage boards with the available tonnage. That being said it would be nice to have a similar treatment as other similar units. All the arm mounted weapons are low and a liability that you have to use mobility to avoid. With the limited hardpoints it has already quite a few strikes against it.

Love to see more range improvements, cooldown or heat dissipation buffs on ML, MPL, SPL, LL or ERLL. Maybe some variant specific quirks like jam quirks on the UAC5.

Also as an above poster stated every mech dosn't have to be at the top of its tier on release. Solid middle is a fair expectation at the least. The Kodiak just came out and id a bit better than middle.

Edited by Rock Roller, 23 June 2016 - 10:16 AM.


#90 Rock Roller

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hitman
  • The Hitman
  • 310 posts
  • LocationPacific North West USA

Posted 23 June 2016 - 10:21 AM

O and cant wait for a Navy?? special addition VF-84 Jolly Rogers addition PXH!!!!

#91 Bluefalcon13

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 355 posts
  • LocationColorado Springs, CO

Posted 23 June 2016 - 01:00 PM

View PostRock Roller, on 23 June 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

O and cant wait for a Navy?? special addition VF-84 Jolly Rogers addition PXH!!!!


OR one that transforms into a planet bound jet with an optional space launch pack (that is red)........... :P

#92 m2wester

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Moderate Giver
  • Moderate Giver
  • 28 posts

Posted 23 June 2016 - 01:39 PM

View PostRock Roller, on 23 June 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

I would love to see some revised weapon quirks. The biggest issue I have is that it needs something. The mix of speed, size, durability and firepower just seems off. I think the speed, size and durability all balance themselves out after playing it a bit. I was hoping for a bit more in the way of durability but it is actually a decent balance.

Firepower is a bit underwhelming. I don't expect it to be at the top of the damage boards with the available tonnage. That being said it would be nice to have a similar treatment as other similar units. All the arm mounted weapons are low and a liability that you have to use mobility to avoid. With the limited hardpoints it has already quite a few strikes against it.

Love to see more range improvements, cooldown or heat dissipation buffs on ML, MPL, SPL, LL or ERLL. Maybe some variant specific quirks like jam quirks on the UAC5.

Also as an above poster stated every mech dosn't have to be at the top of its tier on release. Solid middle is a fair expectation at the least. The Kodiak just came out and id a bit better than middle.



As of right now, I don't think PHX is solid middle tier, unfortunately. As you say, the damage is somewhat lackluster; personally, I think arm armor quirks would be even more important. When I look at the Black Jacks quirks and compare them to the Phoenix Hawks', it is kind of sad... yes, the PHX is more mobile and that's worth something, but come on... after the nerf, the BJ-1X still has +10%NRG range, +10% NRG Cooldown, -10% Heat and all hardpoints are high... for the PHX-1k the only quirk is -5% Duration. Plus worse structure quirks. No amount of mobility will ever make up for that and the lower mounts, especially since the BJ-1X is reasonably speedy itself.

Despite that, I don't think the PHX is complete garbage. I don't see it ever becoming meta without the addition ridiculous weapon and armor/structure quirks, but I find it kind of fun to drive with its high mobility, and while I rarely (if ever) do great, it's not that hard to do all right, within 200-350 dmg. As long as you don't lose an arm early on, at least.

#93 Calvyr

    Member

  • PipPip
  • The Flame
  • The Flame
  • 49 posts
  • LocationToronto, ON

Posted 23 June 2016 - 09:03 PM

View PostAethermech, on 21 June 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

I would like to point out that this mech is only a plus sized light mech. the lore talks about it, the design looks like it, and the HP's and quirks support that fact. It was never meant to be a brawler medium or a fire base like some of the other IS mediums, it's a glorified command light mech. That said, i wouldn't under estimate the Pxh too much, i have a feeling that they are going to surprise alot of people in just how well they perform. Infact i can't wait to test out an erppc poptart sniper with the 1B. The fun (challenge) in trying to make that work has me super amped for this patch.


I tried the 1B poptart with standard PPCs and all I can say to you is "Good luck". That thing is RIDICULOUSLY hot. Even on cold maps, it's hot. Gods forbid you land on Tourmaline or Terra Therma.

I love the way the PXHs drive, but they need a little help in the durability department and some actual offensive quirks instead of the rubbish they have now.

#94 Rock Roller

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hitman
  • The Hitman
  • 310 posts
  • LocationPacific North West USA

Posted 23 June 2016 - 09:37 PM

View Postm2wester, on 23 June 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:



As of right now, I don't think PHX is solid middle tier, unfortunately. As you say, the damage is somewhat lackluster; personally, I think arm armor quirks would be even more important. When I look at the Black Jacks quirks and compare them to the Phoenix Hawks', it is kind of sad... yes, the PHX is more mobile and that's worth something, but come on... after the nerf, the BJ-1X still has +10%NRG range, +10% NRG Cooldown, -10% Heat and all hardpoints are high... for the PHX-1k the only quirk is -5% Duration. Plus worse structure quirks. No amount of mobility will ever make up for that and the lower mounts, especially since the BJ-1X is reasonably speedy itself.

Despite that, I don't think the PHX is complete garbage. I don't see it ever becoming meta without the addition ridiculous weapon and armor/structure quirks, but I find it kind of fun to drive with its high mobility, and while I rarely (if ever) do great, it's not that hard to do all right, within 200-350 dmg. As long as you don't lose an arm early on, at least.


I don't think its mid tier. I am thinking that is the minimum we should expect out of a new mech we pay money for. I don't think its fair to say every new release is the best in its weight class. I do think they should be at least solid mid tier at the least. Basically we are on the same page at how its ranking. I will play the s*&% out of it till the end of this weekend and then probably not look back.

Hope it gets some love soon. I want to love it but it was a buying lesson. IE do your home work.

#95 Reno Blade

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blade
  • The Blade
  • 3,456 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 23 June 2016 - 10:50 PM

So far the most fun in this mech is the 8 JJets pushing you anywhere in one jump. Skyscrapers on Frozen City or River City, No problem.
Canyon jump right over the highest peak, no problem.
... until you realize that this does nothing if you only have something like 2 ERLL and not enough DHS or armor to stay up or in the air.
Using the jjets is pushing your heat or keeping it at the current level, so the mech runs very hot if you use jump jets a lot (which is the most fun and the only plus that the PHX-1 provides over the other variants).

Losing arms and side torsos from nearly any angle is also a big downside. 28 armor means it's off in a good aimed alpha of anything bigger than yourself.

I would love to get some JJet quirk (less heat, more fuel?), structure/armor buff and some heat reducing quirks, so you can at least use the JJets and your weapons more often.

#96 Felix von Buelow

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 117 posts

Posted 24 June 2016 - 03:28 AM

View PostReno Blade, on 23 June 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:


I would love to get some JJet quirk (less heat, more fuel?)


That is actually a nice idea and would cater much more to the role the PHX is supposed to fill. Plus, it would be a complete novelty to have such a quirk in the game.

#97 Rock Roller

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hitman
  • The Hitman
  • 310 posts
  • LocationPacific North West USA

Posted 24 June 2016 - 06:53 AM

View PostGhostNemesys, on 24 June 2016 - 03:28 AM, said:


That is actually a nice idea and would cater much more to the role the PHX is supposed to fill. Plus, it would be a complete novelty to have such a quirk in the game.


Seconded. Honestly thinking like that adds something unqiue to the chassis.

PGI has been working at balance through the quirk system. Anytime a mech is weapons based all in the arms they know this will be an issue. Structure quirks are needed to support or you have a easily exploited weakness. They also know that they will most likely revisit.

Weapon quirks really shouldn't be overpowered. That being said they should be on par with similar mechs. With the tonnage and maneuverability I think the firepower would be fine with adjustments to weapons quirks and possiably more varied weapon hard pointsl

I had a random thought that maybe the something special that was added was that it just looks cool. I do have to say they did a great job on the look of this one.

#98 Bluefalcon13

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 355 posts
  • LocationColorado Springs, CO

Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:15 PM

I bought the collectors pack originally, but I am torn. I like my -1, and my -1b setup, but hate the -1k. I am eye-balling the ROC, to run the following:

Lplas, 2xmplas, 2xssrm2, bap

Anyone try a build like this?

Edited by Bluefalcon13, 24 June 2016 - 12:16 PM.


#99 Rock Roller

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hitman
  • The Hitman
  • 310 posts
  • LocationPacific North West USA

Posted 24 June 2016 - 03:23 PM

Running a 300xl, LL, 3ML and 2 SRM4s in the Rock and doing well. Pick your fight and stick and move. Arms go off this thing easy.

#100 Bluefalcon13

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 355 posts
  • LocationColorado Springs, CO

Posted 24 June 2016 - 04:44 PM

View PostRock Roller, on 24 June 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

Running a 300xl, LL, 3ML and 2 SRM4s in the Rock and doing well. Pick your fight and stick and move. Arms go off this thing easy.


Not sure how you fit 4 energy onto the ROC. It only has 3 energy hard points. Bought it a bit ago, gave it a whirl with this build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b3c10722db0a8ae

Used it on HPG, but our team got crushed. Still was quite fun. Out damaged half of my teammates too :)

Edited by Bluefalcon13, 24 June 2016 - 04:47 PM.






2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users