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Hunchback 4J - The Best Hbk?


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#1 DavidStarr

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 08:25 AM

Hello. My name is David, and I like shooting missiles.
I want to share a HBK-4J loadout that I've found surprisingly effective. Note that I'm a noob and don't even have a single module yet (nor any mech skills beyond the basic ones), so I expect it'll also work for other new players. How effective, you might ask? See for yourself!

Spoiler


Spoiler


And here's the loadout I came up with.

Thoughts?

P. S. The first mech I ever purchased was HBK-4P - on advice from some video for beginners. Hated it then, and still hate (albeit a bit less). Then I got 4G because AC/20 looked like fun. And it is, 4G is much better, but it's not a mech that terrifies enemies (certainly not with the myopic range of AC/20). And when I got 4J I was so happy to finally find a HBK that works, having made my first two purchases not a complete waste (I'll use them for leveling up). So yes, I do call 4J the best of the family, although 4SP might just give it a run for its money after all.

#2 DoubleFlip

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 10:06 AM

Most damage i ever got was 850-ish. Been getting regular 500-700 in my BJ's in T4 quick play now, with ease but 1100 is mental in a medium mech. I also didn't like the first mechs i bought (SHD's), made me quit for over a year. Only one that worked was a similiar build to yours. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c106df7449758b2

#3 Exard3k

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 10:24 AM

With present Quirks, the 4SP is the best Hunchback for me. It has great durability, lots of cooldown and heat generation quirks and because of SRMs having much less weight than LRMs (4J) or an AC20 (4G) you can run maximum standard engine with 96km/h.

There is no medium mech in my mechbay that had so many 800+ dmg games as my 4SP. (Tier 2)

Loadout: 5x Med Laser, 2xSRM6 /w 4tons ammo, std 275 engine, 13 heatsinks along with radar dep., seismic, both SRM modules and a medium laser range module.

It's a beast.

Edited by Exard3k, 01 March 2016 - 10:25 AM.


#4 DavidStarr

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 11:24 AM

View PostExard3k, on 01 March 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

With present Quirks, the 4SP is the best Hunchback for me. It has great durability, lots of cooldown and heat generation quirks and because of SRMs having much less weight than LRMs (4J) or an AC20 (4G) you can run maximum standard engine with 96km/h.

There is no medium mech in my mechbay that had so many 800+ dmg games as my 4SP. (Tier 2)

Loadout: 5x Med Laser, 2xSRM6 /w 4tons ammo, std 275 engine, 13 heatsinks along with radar dep., seismic, both SRM modules and a medium laser range module.

It's a beast.

Very hot, isn't it? Playing 4P made me hate hot builds until the end of my days. I had a similar loadout in mind, except Artemis, 3 lasers instead of 5, only 2 tons of ammo, and 15 heatsinks. Still looks hot.

Edited by DavidStarr, 01 March 2016 - 11:26 AM.


#5 Exard3k

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 12:22 PM

View PostDavidStarr, on 01 March 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

Very hot, isn't it? Playing 4P made me hate hot builds until the end of my days. I had a similar loadout in mind, except Artemis, 3 lasers instead of 5, only 2 tons of ammo, and 15 heatsinks. Still looks hot.


I wouldn't say it is "hot" because you get that -20% energy heat you can really feel when firing 5x meds. It equals 25% more laser volleys before shutdown and 25% more efficiency on your heat sinks. Always remember that Mechlab doesn't take Quirks into account for the "Heat Mgmt" stat. So the value will be more like 1.35 which is not bad. Works fine for me .

Loadouts aren't fixed. If you prefer better heat management, downgrade the engine and ferro upgrade to get more heatsinks.

Edited by Exard3k, 01 March 2016 - 12:29 PM.


#6 DavidStarr

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 01:49 PM

View PostExard3k, on 01 March 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Always remember that Mechlab doesn't take Quirks into account for the "Heat Mgmt" stat.


Yep. That's why I use, and highly recommend, Li Song Mechlab application for playing with loadouts.

Edited by DavidStarr, 02 March 2016 - 04:05 AM.


#7 Leone

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:37 PM

Personally, I prefer a five medium lasers approach with tag on my off side. Less ammo, less heat sinks, but the idea is to fire either the lasers, or the missiles.

But yes, the HBK-4J is a good'un. Not that I don't generally enjoy the chassis as a whole.

~Leone

#8 epikt

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:47 PM

I won't say the 4J is the best Hunchback. But it is certainly the best for LRMs, one of the best LRM-boat in the game actually.
About your build, I recommend you trade your head laser for a TAG and use the torso hardpoint so you can save tonnage by shaving arm armor (here is my build)(if you don't make the Artemis upgrade you have room for 2 more DHS).

In my opinion at the moment the best Hunchback is the 4SP. Great damage dealer and insanely tanky. I equip it with 2 SRM6 Artemis and 3 medium pulse lasers.

#9 jss78

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 04:25 PM

My preferred approach with the 4J is to run BAP and no TAG. I put 4xML in the RT and HD.

I can see the merits of TAG, but I never liked having to stick within LOS in a fragile mech

With this you have to get a bit closer to be effective. It's really a medium range build: preferred engagement range is just within BAP range. I try to find suitable cover and fade in and out of LOS depending on how bad the return fire is. If it's not too bad, I peek and add the ML's into the mix. If return fire is bad, I get in cover and fire LRM's from ~300 m from where they'll be pretty tough to avoid. Max XL gives you the mobility to quickly relocate to best firing positions.

To me there's a big temptation to go without arm lasers in this mech. You can then put the arm armour down to a few points which frees tonnage for goodies like the max engine and more LRM ammo.

#10 McHoshi

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 04:32 PM

I am not sure how to tell you this now, but if you are that new to MWO, you will have much more fun by not sticking to those little lrm buggys at all...

You´ll will experience much more fun by using the HBK-4P with just 6 MPL, or 6 ML ( fastest std. engine ) by shooting all those other little lrm buggys in your Tier Posted Image

Just give it a try Posted Image

Edited by McHoshi, 01 March 2016 - 05:45 PM.


#11 epikt

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 04:36 PM

View Postjss78, on 01 March 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

preferred engagement range is just within BAP range.

Doesn't make much sense. What's the BAP range? Not even sure it's 180m. Maybe 250 at max. If you want to peak-a-boo at this range use a 4SP with SRMs, not a lurm-boat.
(usually I'm the one saying to get closer with lurms, but I suppose there is such thing as "too close")
Also, with only 2x10 missiles per volley you can't place one alpha at a time, you must use your rate of fire and keep the missiles coming. With the TAG on your head and the missiles on your shoulder you don't even have to expose yourself to much in order to keep an eye on your target.

#12 jss78

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 04:46 PM

View Postepikt, on 01 March 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

Doesn't make much sense. What's the BAP range? Not even sure it's 180m. Maybe 250 at max. If you want to peak-a-boo at this range use a 4SP with SRMs, not a lurm-boat.
(usually I'm the one saying to get closer with lurms, but I suppose there is such thing as "too close")
Also, with only 2x10 missiles per volley you can't place one alpha at a time, you must use your rate of fire and keep the missiles coming. With the TAG on your head and the missiles on your shoulder you don't even have to expose yourself to much in order to keep an eye on your target.


I do believe it's 360 m, i.e. twice the min range of LRM's. Edit: But now I'm not sure ... apparently it's been changed at some point. Neither the game itself (if you hover over the BAP) nor Smurfy seems to tell the actual range.

The build's working quite nice for me at Tier 2 -- easily pulls its weight in most games. In practice it has a lot of flexibility: in some games locks are plentiful and you don't have to get within 360 m anyway. If ECM situation is bad, get closer and locks start to come as either you or your team mates can target-lock due to your BAP. And when possible without undue danger, add your ML's into the mix. Incidentally the BAP max range is also where your ML's start to do close to max damage, so that's really the synergistic place to be.

Edited by jss78, 01 March 2016 - 04:54 PM.


#13 epikt

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 05:00 PM

View Postjss78, on 01 March 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

I do believe it's 360 m, i.e. twice the min range of LRM's.

OK.
I must confess I ditched the BAP on all my missile-boats, not worth the tonnage in my opinion. On the other hand, I always go with TAG and Artemis.

Anyway, there is at least one thing we agree on: the use of the MLas. Most LRM pilots think of them as defensive weapons ("against light mechs", as if 3 MLas could scare an Oxide or a Firestarter), but on the opposite they are offensive weapons, used combined with the LRMs.

#14 DavidStarr

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 09:50 PM

View Postepikt, on 01 March 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

Most LRM pilots think of them as defensive weapons ("against light mechs", as if 3 MLas could scare an Oxide or a Firestarter), but on the opposite they are offensive weapons, used combined with the LRMs.

Yes. I wouldn't get 1100 dmg without peeking out of cover and pinching the enemy mechs with lasers regularly.

View PostMcHoshi, on 01 March 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

I am not sure how to tell you this now, but if you are that new to MWO, you will have much more fun by not sticking to those little lrm buggys at all

Just so happens that LRM mechs are the most consistent and powerful damage dealers. Deal with it :P

Edited by DavidStarr, 01 March 2016 - 10:39 PM.


#15 jss78

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 11:57 PM

View Postepikt, on 01 March 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

OK.
I must confess I ditched the BAP on all my missile-boats, not worth the tonnage in my opinion. On the other hand, I always go with TAG and Artemis.

Anyway, there is at least one thing we agree on: the use of the MLas. Most LRM pilots think of them as defensive weapons ("against light mechs", as if 3 MLas could scare an Oxide or a Firestarter), but on the opposite they are offensive weapons, used combined with the LRMs.


I edited the above post to note that I'm not 100% certain on the BAP range. It's really tough to check in-game because the mechlab doesn't show the range, and during matches you might have several people's ECM's and BAP's affecting whether a lock is achieved... While the mech's working great for me, it's possible that I'm over-estimating the role of BAP in that.

BAP with LRM mechs does have the side benefit of expanding your sensor range out to 1000 m which is also the max range of your LRM's. That's also a bit situational, but it does come in handy on maps with really long sight lines.

Yeah, in general I'm a big fan of ML's with LRM's. Very weight-efficient secondary armament, and they are effective at the range at which LRM's are IMO best used anyway (medium range).

#16 jss78

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 12:04 AM

View PostMcHoshi, on 01 March 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

I am not sure how to tell you this now, but if you are that new to MWO, you will have much more fun by not sticking to those little lrm buggys at all...

You´ll will experience much more fun by using the HBK-4P with just 6 MPL, or 6 ML ( fastest std. engine ) by shooting all those other little lrm buggys in your Tier Posted Image

Just give it a try Posted Image


I don't exactly disagree, but I have no problem being a proponent of the HBK-4J, as IF you're going to run LRM's, the Hunchie's IMO pretty much the best way to run them. You don't waste an assault mech's armour and tonnage in a role where you don't need them anyway. Reasonable LRM firepower and a good mobility to put that firepower into best use (actively seek optimal firing positions instead of sitting in the corner in a 100-ton hunk of dead weight).

Now, if we're talking about "fun" in connection with Hunchies, the real answer is the AC/20 classic. Posted Image

#17 DavidStarr

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 01:33 AM

To further reinforce my point - the list of my mech stats sorted by average damage per game (only includes mechs with over 300 DPG):

Posted Image

Edited by DavidStarr, 02 March 2016 - 01:35 AM.


#18 McHoshi

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 02:35 AM

View PostDavidStarr, on 01 March 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

Yes. I wouldn't get 1100 dmg without peeking out of cover and pinching the enemy mechs with lasers regularly.


Just so happens that LRM mechs are the most consistent and powerful damage dealers. Deal with it Posted Image


Only in your Tier "mate" ... only in your Tier and your opinion ;)

#19 DavidStarr

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 03:39 AM

View PostMcHoshi, on 02 March 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

Only in your Tier "mate" ... only in your Tier and your opinion

Have you played many LRM mechs regularly?

Edited by DavidStarr, 02 March 2016 - 03:40 AM.


#20 Hastur Azargo

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 09:43 AM

View PostMcHoshi, on 02 March 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:


Only in your Tier "mate" ... only in your Tier and your opinion Posted Image

I concur. On my memory since late 2012 and indeed after PSR tiers were introduced, once a "LURMageddon" materializes, people start re-learning to be aware of LRM threat and stay in cover. You could sometimes get 1000+ dmg with LRMS if stars align and your neighbor's cat breaks a mirror with an empty bucket (that is, if lots of opportunities present themselves and you take advantage of them).

As it is, LRM is more about suppressing enemies and "zoning" them, preventing them from walking out in the open, but as far as actually dealing damage, you really need your targets exposed to hit them, and if they're exposed, your teammates with direct fire meta builds will take them down before your LRMs even cover the distance between you and your target.





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