62 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

I'm used to getting plonked into a team of low-tier PUGs, so that the matchmaker can convince itself that it's created an 'average' team.

But the past 7 days seem to have been especially bad.

I'm getting dropped into team after team of players who just walk dead ahead from spawn without regrouping, don't have an "R" key on their keyboard, stand behind buildings spamming LRMs into the scenery, or simply hide behind buildings waiting for ... well, I don't know what they're waiting for.

It's like I found a secret Tier 6 or something.

I'd normally put this down to the MatchMaker being mostly comprised of 'release valves'. But the past 7 days seem much worse than usual. (For example, in the past two days, I've been repeatedly dropped in teams where up to three of us are higher tier, but the rest are really really bad. And on the opposition team I see large numbers of players who I know to be some of the best in the game.

Yet, these Tier 1 players aren't distributed across the teams, they're all on the one side.

So, that's why I am asking whether anyone else has noticed PUG queue matchmaking being much worse than usual recently...?

I'm only one player. But I have played a lot over a long period, so I can detect what seems like a change in 'usual'. And in match chat a few others have noted that matches seem to be more one-sided than usual.

So I'm just seeking wider input on whether you've noticed a change recently. Maybe this is just an ongoing run of bad luck and not a systemic issue at all.

Edited by Appogee, 25 February 2016 - 05:02 AM.

[Kimberm1911]

I'm not sure. Interestingly, I've had the exact opposite of your experience. I played 5 straight games where my team were all obviously fairly experienced players, and the opposing team seemed like it was composed entirely of beginners. So, overall, I'm not sure what is going on.

[Y E O N N E]

They do often feel one-sided. I get a lot of matches where there's a bunch of 228, MS, CI, or other recognizable units and names on the other side but my team is built entirely from unknowns.

But that could just be confirmation bias on my part.

Then, I ante-up in something like my Marauder 5D and suddenly the matches don't feel so lopsided any more.

You 'Mech matters. A lot.

[Kimberm1911]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 February 2016 - 11:47 PM, said:

You 'Mech matters. A lot.

This is honestly a piece of wisdom that often gets overlooked. If your team is filled with people running awesomes, trebuchets, kintaros, and kit fox's, you're in a bit of trouble. I realize that some people play well in those mechs, but if you put a good pilot in a trebuchet against a good pilot in a stormcrow and have them duke it out, the stormcrow is going to win 9 out of 10 times.

[627]

I have the feeleing the matches are pretty equal. People seem to indeed be from that tier you are in.

But tier and skill aren't the same. The last two days I played my new black knight and I got stomped nearly every game, I only won 2 of the first 10 games. Even with not playing this shouldn't be the average (but it is a small number for sure).

And then you have a match where you get a player everyone knows to be good. And suddenly you win the match, and that player makes like 800 damage in 3 minutes while you have to ran to keep up the pace, ending with 250 damage and only 2 enemy contacts before the match is over.

Some people are just that good. and some people are just... mediocre. And all those people are in the same tier. The first because of skill, the last because of grind.

[Appogee]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 February 2016 - 11:47 PM, said:

You 'Mech matters. A lot.

True. I'm taking my best Mechs, and I usually top score on my team.

But I cannot win a match against what seem like impossible odds.

Edited by Appogee, 25 February 2016 - 12:15 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Kimberm1911, on 24 February 2016 - 11:54 PM, said:

This is honestly a piece of wisdom that often gets overlooked. If your team is filled with people running awesomes, trebuchets, kintaros, and kit fox's, you're in a bit of trouble. I realize that some people play well in those mechs, but if you put a good pilot in a trebuchet against a good pilot in a stormcrow and have them duke it out, the stormcrow is going to win 9 out of 10 times.

Hey! My Treb is a killer

But yeah, this is one thing the MM doesn't take into account.

Another thing the MM should take into account IMHO, whereas it doesn't, is the number of matches a person played in a given mech variant. PUG Q is filled with people leveling new mechs, still experimenting with loadout etc. Even if the overall skill level of all players in a match is similar, one side may have an entire lance of unbasiced mechs piloted by players that still learn the chassis, while the other team is 12 guys with their tried and true loadouts. Not hard to foresee an outcome of such match.

[PocketYoda]

If it wasn't turned off i'd be worried about how well it works..

[Paigan]

I had a funny match recently:

Polar Highlands. The usual 5 minutes of non fighting.
I started shooting the enemies happily at ~900m (hardly any damage in return, gotta love range), the rest of my team fell back.

Then: Squirrel!!
A few started chasing it. Then the lead chaser complained about the rest of the team NOT helping in the chase.
So everyone except me joined the case.
I tried to explain, but no dice.

Later, a TBR of our team comes around the corner, sees me (big threatening EXE?) and shoots at me in panic.
*sigh*
I just explained again in chat that you normally don't shoot team mates.

That was an ... interesting ... match.

[Kimberm1911]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 25 February 2016 - 12:10 AM, said:

Another thing the MM should take into account IMHO, whereas it doesn't, is the number of matches a person played in a given mech variant. PUG Q is filled with people leveling new mechs, still experimenting with loadout etc. Even if the overall skill level of all players in a match is similar, one side may have an entire lance of unbasiced mechs piloted by players that still learn the chassis, while the other team is 12 guys with their tried and true loadouts. Not hard to foresee an outcome of such match.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I don't think it's fair to be pitting against a fully mastered modded enemy team when I'm just starting to basic my own mechs. Likewise, I don't think it's fair for me to be piloting my fully mastered Banshee 3m with full modifications when the opponents are only running basic mechs.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

I've wondered this as well

Kimberm1911, on 24 February 2016 - 11:54 PM, said:

This is honestly a piece of wisdom that often gets overlooked. If your team is filled with people running awesomes, trebuchets, kintaros, and kit fox's, you're in a bit of trouble. I realize that some people play well in those mechs, but if you put a good pilot in a trebuchet against a good pilot in a stormcrow and have them duke it out, the stormcrow is going to win 9 out of 10 times.

Non-sense.... the Atlas-K is just fine.... you're just a bad pilot

No power creep here.

[Appogee]

So far today: six matches, all losses, despite top-scoring in 4 of them. (I'm using a strong LPL/SRM Mech.)

But my PSR went down in 4 matches because I just can't carry a team of very low players to victory. Nor is there enough time for me to make the 250 match score necessary to stop PSR being reduced, when the team just hides and dies.

In the last match, I spent a lot of time in text chat trying to get the team to regroup, telling them which way to look, which way the enemy was coming, which way to face. Their reaction...? After rallying where I suggested, they then proceeded to run away as soon as they saw a red triangle. Instead of making any attempt to use the position we'd secured, they immediately ran into a ditch and were summarily executed by the enemy team.

There was one other player in my team who was in a unit. He went off and stood on a ridge, sniping until he was the last player facing 11 enemy Mechs solo. Then he died, having done 220 damage.

This proved to me once and for all that all the time I spend trying to help PUG teams do anything intelligent is just wasted. I may as well just not bother.

That's me done with Mechwarrior Online for the day.




Back to the original point of my post: matchmaker just doesn't seem to be working at all as far as I can tell. Or maybe I'm just seeing it in full 'release valve mode' over and over, because PGI apparently can't come up with anything less flawed than the idea that 2 good players + 10 bad players = 12 competent players.

Edited by Appogee, 25 February 2016 - 12:28 AM.

[Ulris Ventis]

MM was very good lately, however mostly positive outcomes were a result of team communication in PUGs, and actually inspiring mates not to just stand passively dying in one place. Only 3 players are all that is needed to start a proper move route or a push involving the rest of the team.
I've noticed that leaving your team on it's own hurts the team more, then trying to organize them, when no other wishes to do so. Sometimes there is just no way otherwise to make the team actually push the enemy and be more aggressive especially when having an advantage.
So, I didn't notice anything worse than what I've seen during suicide Valentine's Day runs.

[Kimberm1911]

My recommendation, start playing in groups, if you already aren't. The difference in team skill compared to PUG is super noticeable. Sure, you may end up fighting a 6-12 man team, but it's better then getting rolled by a random PUG because your team is so bad.

[NextGame]

matchmaker likes to just decide that "lol, this guy is going to lose all day today". best way to win when it is doing that, is not to play, and let some other sucker take the punishment.

[MechWarrior849305]

Numerous threads 'bout MM, Tiers, Bad Teams, about being "THEMOSTVIABLEPLAYERINTHEPUGUNIVERSESURROUNDEDBYAWFULLPUGS".


That's .... amusing

[Moldur]

Appogee, on 24 February 2016 - 11:42 PM, said:

It's like I found a secret Tier 6 or something.

That made me laugh more than it should have

[Paigan]

Appogee, on 25 February 2016 - 12:23 AM, said:

So far today: six matches, all losses, despite top-scoring in 4 of them. (I'm using a strong LPL/SRM Mech.)

But my PSR went down in 4 matches because I just can't carry a team of very low players to victory. Nor is there enough time for me to make the 250 match score necessary to stop PSR being reduced, when the team just hides and dies.

In the last match, I spent a lot of time in text chat trying to get the team to regroup, telling them which way to look, which way the enemy was coming, which way to face. Their reaction...? After rallying where I suggested, they then proceeded to run away as soon as they saw a red triangle. Instead of making any attempt to use the position we'd secured, they immediately ran into a ditch and were summarily executed by the enemy team.

There was one other player in my team who was in a unit. He went off and stood on a ridge, sniping until he was the last player facing 11 enemy Mechs solo. Then he died, having done 220 damage.

This proved to me once and for all that all the time I spend trying to help PUG teams do anything intelligent is just wasted. I may as well just not bother.

That's me done with Mechwarrior Online for the day.




Back to the original point of my post: matchmaker just doesn't seem to be working at all as far as I can tell. Or maybe I'm just seeing it in full 'release valve mode' over and over, because PGI apparently can't come up with anything less flawed than the idea that 2 good players + 10 bad players = 12 competent players.

What I'm wondering is:

If there are so many noobs and even if MM were just random, shouldn't the enemy team have just as much noobs, hence making your win rate about 50-50?
Maybe 4 losses in a row is just bad luck.

(E.g.: I had a match with 5 kills yesterday. And I'm clearly not THAT good. It just happens when 3 enemy assaults refuse to take cover or shoot back and when a badly damaged EBJ tries to take on an hardly damaged assault on his own... Next game, I'm on the side that gets the 2-12 shaft. Puglife.)

It's not like MM is saying "THAT player, I hate THAT player and I stick all the noobs in his team."
MM just sees two teams and stuffs player in them.

Edited by Paigan, 25 February 2016 - 01:42 AM.

[KHETTI]

I'm starting to believe that there is some kind of modifier/handicapping system in the MM.
Basically do well in enough games, the MM handicaps you by forcing you to lose (ie games the MM knows you can't win), and sometimes this "phase" can last days, or until it feels its brought your stats back down enough.

Sounds utterly ridiculous to even suggest this, i know, but at this stage, i wouldn't be entirely shocked if it turned out to be atleast partly true.

[Paigan]

KHETTI, on 25 February 2016 - 01:43 AM, said:

I'm starting to believe that there is some kind of modifier/handicapping system in the MM.
Basically do well in enough games, the MM handicaps you by forcing you to lose (ie games the MM knows you can't win), and sometimes this "phase" can last days, or until it feels its brought your stats back down enough.

Sounds utterly ridiculous to even suggest this, i know, but at this stage, i wouldn't be entirely shocked if it turned out to be atleast partly true.