26 replies to this topic

[sam wesson]

Every time I try to use the Academy it turns the video settings up to high for my PC. Can I change this?

[Dave Forsey]

Some of the props in the level have their LOD settings raised so they look better and don't pop in during the opening cinematic, but otherwise, I'm not doing anything on purpose to change the quality settings.

- When you say it gets "changed to high", does it show up as switched in settings or just looks that way in the level?
- Does it happen in any of the training grounds level (they use the same game mode).
- Check your user.cfg, variables set there are often ignored in multiplayer so you'd only see the difference in the Academy or training grounds

Anyone else notice this?

[Korrner]

I have not witnessed this, but maybe the OP means by "changed to high setting" the thing that Windows 7 does when it reverts display settings to basic to free resources for the game ? If so, there are many different reasons why that would happen. Mainly happens when the CPU or GPU gets throttled.

Try closing unnecessary running software, does that still happen ? If so, look at your GPU and CPU's temperature. Might also be a power supply issue when the GPU starts pumping more juice.

Try to supply as many "clues" as you can to help troubleshooting.

[sam wesson]

- When you say it gets "changed to high", does it show up as switched in settings or just looks that way in the level?
OK, I have run it several times and the settings are not changed.

- Does it happen in any of the training grounds level (they use the same game mode).
In all stages of the tutorial in the training grounds.

- Check your user.cfg, variables set there are often ignored in multiplayer so you'd only see the difference in the Academy or training grounds
I have searched my computer thoroughly, I do not have a "user.cfg" file.

I guess I can best describe it as a serious drop in frame rate during most of my time spent in the training grounds. Example: while using the shooting gallery if feels as if my frame rate is as low as 1 to 2 fps. Maybe my computer is just to slow.

Thanks anyway.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

sam wesson, on 20 March 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

- When you say it gets "changed to high", does it show up as switched in settings or just looks that way in the level?
OK, I have run it several times and the settings are not changed.

- Does it happen in any of the training grounds level (they use the same game mode).
In all stages of the tutorial in the training grounds.

- Check your user.cfg, variables set there are often ignored in multiplayer so you'd only see the difference in the Academy or training grounds
I have searched my computer thoroughly, I do not have a "user.cfg" file.

I guess I can best describe it as a serious drop in frame rate during most of my time spent in the training grounds. Example: while using the shooting gallery if feels as if my frame rate is as low as 1 to 2 fps. Maybe my computer is just to slow.

Thanks anyway.

FIRST, you're confusing Training Grounds with Mechwarrior Academy. They are two different things. MWA is what you get for the TUTORIALS tab on the left of the home screen, and TESTING GROUNDS is right above that.

NOW, there IS a VERY NOTICEABLE DROP in framerate in the Academy, Lots of visual effects that take a LOT of resources to render. It's worse, by far, than the standard River city map in Testing Grounds. Part of that is the white light pillar thingies you see extending upward/skyward from the various event start points. Some of it is likely also due to the AI of (and just the mere presence of) those turrets, CPT Adams' Atlas, and those training dummy mechs in the (VERY valuable for a training tool) Battle Zone side of the map. Whatever settings you use, I'd recommend forcing the LOW settings for the Academy, and cranking down to the lowest (OFF, if available) setting for particles and shadows. It'll help a lot.

ALSO, try using the F9 key when you get into the map. That'll bring up some really helpful data. Specifically, it gives your position on the map in three axes, your PING (which will be 0 for Testing Grounds and the Academy), and your framerate. Further, that framerate number's color changes based on what the value IS. So it's easy to notice that, when looking at THIS feature from anywhere on the map, my framerate goes YELLOW. But when using the Onslaught feature, my framerate stays above 110, usually over 130. (This is true for me.)

The Academy is kinda out-of-the-closet as a resource hog among all of MWO's maps and features.

First, GO TO RIVER CITY in the TESTING GROUNDS, with the same settings you're normally using. Check your framerates from different points on the map, facing the citadel. THEN, do the same thing in the Academy, from the same points, facing the citadel like before. Notice a difference? Note that difference. Bring those numbers, along with a list of the advanced video settings and your system specs, and we can talk a little more intelligently to some potential solutions for your framerate issues.

[Dave Forsey]

Impressive Sister! Are you in the game dev business, or just been burned by too many games?

BTW, it's not the AI itself that slows things down but the line-of-sight visibility ray casts that happen between every pair of 'mechs, made worse by the complexity of River City. (which was split off from the multiplayer version - I should check to see if there are any improvements that should be moved over)

There was/is a bug where the visibility ray casts also happened between powered off mechs (needed for multiplayer) so that's a lot of 'Mechs in the BattleZone and the mechswappers.

The May patch (missed April, sorry) should fix that and, barring unforeseen circumstances, add some things to the BattleZone you'll like.

Sorry about being vague, I'm just following the second law of Frisbee:
"Never precede any maneuver by a comment more predictive than: 'Hey! Watch this!'"

[sam wesson]

Sister, I am not confused. You are having trouble following context.

But out please.

[Dave Forsey]

Please keep it civil. Sister's analysis and recommended course of action is basically correct.

During the challenges all the other assets (pillars of light, mechswappers, battlezone mechs) are all turned off, so the overhead is just the mechs in the challenge.

Try dropping the rendering quality and see what happens. Past that, post your machine's specs and we can tell you if indeed your machine is at the low end or try to figure out what's going on.

[Goose]

I am often annoyed by how few people come down to Hardware for these issues …

Edited by Goose, 21 March 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[Goose]

So Teh Academy loads up the render thread(s) on the CPU (see how the GPU load drops with the fps?) and while you can adjust settings to elevate the issue, or else get elbow-deep in the user.cfg, finding some more Hz is the often best way to address it.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Dave Forsey, on 21 March 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Impressive Sister! Are you in the game dev business, or just been burned by too many games?

BTW, it's not the AI itself that slows things down but the line-of-sight visibility ray casts that happen between every pair of 'mechs, made worse by the complexity of River City. (which was split off from the multiplayer version - I should check to see if there are any improvements that should be moved over)

There was/is a bug where the visibility ray casts also happened between powered off mechs (needed for multiplayer) so that's a lot of 'Mechs in the BattleZone and the mechswappers.

The May patch (missed April, sorry) should fix that and, barring unforeseen circumstances, add some things to the BattleZone you'll like.

Sorry about being vague, I'm just following the second law of Frisbee:
"Never precede any maneuver by a comment more predictive than: 'Hey! Watch this!'"

Nope and nope. Well, 'burned' is a subjective term. I've almost always gotten my money out of my games (STILL waiting for a response from tech support on RAGE, from last year, which won't boot up properly, but that's a whole other issue that I'm SURE will not affect DooM in the least little bit).

Some things take up a lot more processing power and/or memory than do others. Some things are more present on the Academy map than on others. 2 + 2 = PILLARS_OF_LIGHT. Or rays. Something. Hadn't specifically considered that every active mech in there has to have that happening constantly, and it can eat up those processor cycles. Thought GSC Gameworld's XRay engine did alright with that stuff, but it had this whole other cast of minor issues that would drive you nuts. And that was nearly a decade ago, when things were considerably simpler.

Man, just the mere thought of having a new engine (hey, RUSS said it) just makes the mouth water.

@sam wesson: Sorry. Really, I am. I did not, and still DO not, intend to imply that you're doing anything wrong or whatnot. I apologize.

What I meant was that, from the sound of your post up there, it's not CLEAR that you're getting Mr. Forsey's distinction between Testing Grounds (sometimes also referred to as 'Training Grounds') and the Mechwarrior Academy, which are two very different things. Apparently you ARE on point there. So again, my bad. I apologize sincerely for any offense you've taken.

[LordKnightFandragon]

That why the Academy lags like hell every time a mech spawns up? I get wasted cuz of that. The mechs always seem to spawn up behind me and then my FPS goes from 30 to 2 then for like 5-6s, my FPS is in the teens, then it returns to 30s. I had this game up in the 40s at one point.

Is it particles that do that? River city runs like *** for me.

[Dave Forsey]

I suspect that the game is not optimized for dynamic spawning of 'Mechs (in the online game everything is spawned at the beginning of the match)... but particles do put a load on.

Which challenge are you getting burned on?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Dave Forsey, on 30 May 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

I suspect that the game is not optimized for dynamic spawning of 'Mechs (in the online game everything is spawned at the beginning of the match)... but particles do put a load on.

Which challenge are you getting burned on?

The battlegrounds, every time a mech spawns, I get huge lag spikes that get me wasted, since im pretty much standing there stuttering as I try to turn to aim and move to cover.

Would be nice if the AI mech's in the Battleground spawned as soon as we entered. It will also be nice the day the AI start moving around. Its annoying how they spawn on my head and always behind me.

Also, as for River City, even in the Training Grounds River City runs like crap for me. When im on other maps I get like 30-45 FPS. Even in Faction wars I get like 25-35 FPS, even in combat, but River City and only River City, it lags like hell.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 30 May 2016 - 04:05 PM.

[Dave Forsey]

Hmmm... the BattleZone 'Mechs are spawned during the "Re-initializing Simulation" blackout screen, and don't re-spawn for at least 30 seconds after death and shouldn't re-spawn at all if you're looking at the husk.

They also shouldn't re-spawn anywhere near you (though they could be in line of sight). They do shoot any time you come into view, so you can be shot coming around any corner. (and you're going to feel even more exposed once they start info-sharing)

Without a video I can only speculate that, if you're already having some performance problems, that either the particles or the heavy load of the River City geometry interferes as you try to spin around if something in the graphics pipeline has to reload.
If not, I don't know what the issue might be.

I'll have to try it on a low-end machine to see if that's a contributing factor.

[Tarl Cabot]

LordKnightFandragon, on 30 May 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

Also, as for River City, even in the Training Grounds River City runs like crap for me. When im on other maps I get like 30-45 FPS. Even in Faction wars I get like 25-35 FPS, even in combat, but River City and only River City, it lags like hell.

What are your system specs and game settings (AA on/off).

[LordKnightFandragon]

Tarl Cabot, on 30 May 2016 - 07:45 PM, said:

What are your system specs and game settings (AA on/off).

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16883102062

^^That is my PC. Not top of the line by any means, but it is alot better then the one I had been using since like 2007.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Dave Forsey, on 30 May 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

Hmmm... the BattleZone 'Mechs are spawned during the "Re-initializing Simulation" blackout screen, and don't re-spawn for at least 30 seconds after death and shouldn't re-spawn at all if you're looking at the husk.

They also shouldn't re-spawn anywhere near you (though they could be in line of sight). They do shoot any time you come into view, so you can be shot coming around any corner. (and you're going to feel even more exposed once they start info-sharing)

Without a video I can only speculate that, if you're already having some performance problems, that either the particles or the heavy load of the River City geometry interferes as you try to spin around if something in the graphics pipeline has to reload.
If not, I don't know what the issue might be.

I'll have to try it on a low-end machine to see if that's a contributing factor.

The AI spawn when I pass certain parts of the map. Initially, there is NO mech spawned. I cross the bridge, go left, or right, about 100m in and suddenly mechs spawn around me. If I go left, they spawn under the bridge, between the rocks, down the city road, up on the raised bridge. If I to right, they spawn under the bridge and between the rocks. I actually can stare right at the spot they spawn. They dont spawn right after I kill one, but if I walk away and come back to that same spot, as I do, I pretty much circle the area and retreat for repairs often. I do have mechs spawn right in front of and behind me. If I cross the big bridge in the back, they will spawn under the raised road as im half way down the bridge.

I wish the mechs spawned during Re-initializing simulator, then they would be standing there as soon as I walk in the BZ area.

*EDIT* Apparently, in battle, I get really good FPS. Just got out of a pub match, my FPS and everything was really smooth, at the end just before the score screen popped in, it said 81, its 100 in the score screen. IDK what it was prior to that, as I was focused on combat, but it was fine. Sooo, must just be a River City thing.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 31 May 2016 - 04:59 AM.

[Dave Forsey]

Just stepped through in the debugger to doublecheck and everything seems to work as intended - all the 'Mechs are spawned powered down on re-init and don't respawn for at least 60 seconds after death.

All the BZ 'Mechs power-up when you enter the zone and don't show up on your radar until the power up is complete.... and they're in line of sight, and they're in front of you. That may be why they appear to spawn when you enter the BZ.

Ahhh... perhaps that's it. The AI is really, really dumb and keeps firing (if it can see you) until it overheats and shuts down. That takes it off your radar until it cools and powers up again. You may be getting ambushed by one of these.

And it's 12 v 1 in the BattleZone, you're really naked there..... hmm.. try throwing up a UAV or use an active probe and see if it thinks they're respawns (AI's won't target your UAV)

Edited by Dave Forsey, 31 May 2016 - 10:32 AM.
Added ref to using active probe

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Nice, Dave! Only one I've witnessed overheating is the KGC, at least prior to last patch. It would invoke ghost heat (erm, 'heat scale') penalty by firing its dual AC/20 simultaneously. I've seen a SHD-5M jam its UAC/5, too.

Just curious: As a more useful alternative to the UAV, could one possibly use an Active Probe to detect the shut-down mechs? Y'know, since UAVs are one-and-done, and running back to the (VERY USEFUL, THANKS!) rearm/repair pad from the BZ after every UAV might get a bit tedious...