37 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Triordinant, on 14 May 2016 - 08:26 PM, said:

You're right about Energy quirks applying to both PPCs and ERPPCs but according to both the Mechlab and Smurfy's the PPC only and ERPPC only quirks are mutually exclusive. Is there an official dev post or MWO announcement anywhere that says PPC quirks affect ERPPCs? Personal experience doesn't count.

There was an official dev post, IIRC, but you can also just go into the game, pick a 'Mech with PPC quirks, add an ERPPC to it, then mouse over the ERPPC to see which quirks on that 'Mech apply to it.

[TyphonCh]

It doesn't help PGI did severally blanket nerfs to Clans in an attempt to reign in the top tier mechs. Instead it just made bad Clan mechs worse and the top tier remained top tier. Suckoner, myth lynx, Ferret, Warhawk are still underwhelming.
They kind of got it figured out, buffing the CT of Clan omni mechs.

[Triordinant]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 May 2016 - 08:43 PM, said:

There was an official dev post, IIRC, but you can also just go into the game, pick a 'Mech with PPC quirks, add an ERPPC to it, then mouse over the ERPPC to see which quirks on that 'Mech apply to it.

I confirmed the mouseover. It doesn't work in the other direction, though, since ERPPC quirks don't seem to apply to PPCs. Is it a bug or working as intended? If it's as intended PGI should have said so on the quirks list for those 'mechs in which case it's an oversight.

Edited by Triordinant, 14 May 2016 - 10:18 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Triordinant, on 14 May 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

I confirmed the mouseover. It doesn't work in the other direction, though, since ERPPC quirks don't seem to apply to PPCs. Is it a bug or working as intended? If it's as intended PGI should have said so on the quirks list for those 'mechs in which case it's an oversight.

It is intended

PPC quirks are considered PPC family quirks (which ERPPCs are a part of) while ERPPC quirks are specific

Like Laser quirks, or ER Large Laser quirks, one is generic, one is specific (also see Pulse or ER specific on Clam mechs)

[GreenHell]

I know quite a few who aren't happy that a Clan mech that will probably end up replacing at least 2 or 3 other mechs entirely got any quirks. I won't say that PGI are doing it on purpose to sell mechs (aka - pay2win), but I'd like to at least know why they think the KDK needed them at all. Looks like a good mech even without them to be honest, so just tell us why. I'd like to know.

[L3mming2]

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

well, because PGI felt the 1 and 5 where the strongest (incorrectly, because PGI) so they left quirks off them rather than risking them being OP.

not saying they will be op but i can make builds with 68 laser alpha and 33 dhs... dont know if thats enough dhs to make it able to alpha 2 times in a row but if it is then there u have your reasons for no quirks on those variants..

[L3mming2]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

Smaller, actually. It's getting smaller. The current model is 12% oversized. It's one of the most oversized mechs in the game.

as a lolcust fan this intrests me, are u shure? i thouth the model was more or less the right size? ps where did u see it was 12% to big? if it is realy getting shrunk that would be so awsome

Triordinant, on 14 May 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

If you're going to use numbers it's very important that they're correct. The JM6-DD Jager has 10% cooldown for all ballistics and 30% reduced jam chance for the UAC 5. PPC quirks do NOT apply to ERPPCs and vice-versa. The TDR-9S ERPPC quirks (for example) do not apply to PPCs.

he is counting like this 10% cd quirk + 12% cd module +5 % cd skill tree ...

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Triordinant, on 14 May 2016 - 08:26 PM, said:

You're right about Energy quirks applying to both PPCs and ERPPCs but according to both the Mechlab and Smurfy's the PPC only and ERPPC only quirks are mutually exclusive. Is there an official dev post or MWO announcement anywhere that says PPC quirks affect ERPPCs? Personal experience doesn't count.

That is old old news. Google it yourself or go for your own empirical research instead of relying on Smurfy.
You do not even need to drop in a match or sim to test it.
Go to the in game mech lab.
Select a mech with PPC quirks.
Equip ER-PPC(s).
Now hover over the location with the weapon and see if it has the green descriptor that indicates the weapon is quirked by the chasis.

[ScarecrowES]

L3mming2, on 15 May 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

as a lolcust fan this intrests me, are u shure? i thouth the model was more or less the right size? ps where did u see it was 12% to big? if it is realy getting shrunk that would be so awsome

https://twitter.com/...215670925942785

Also, for those interested, Russ says they're going to be looking at quirks on IIC mechs again very soon.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 15 May 2016 - 09:22 AM.

[Lykaon]

Afuldan McKronik, on 14 May 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

So, Clan Omni mechs that don't do well get some minor quirks (WHK, MLX), all IS mechs get quirks in one form or another, the IIC might get minor quirks and the Kodiak has some variants that will recieve quirks.

Is this a marketing tactic or balancing act? How many pilots decided to buy the Kodiac now that some of the variants will recieve quirks? Will quirks affect sales of IIC packages?

It seems that mechs that have favorable quirks seem to be popular regardless of hardpoints, if the quirkening is strong. Black Knight, as the biggest example of this. One of the strongest IS heavies, only due to quirks. I understand that quirks are how the game is balanced.

If the Kodiacs needed quirks, why did they not all get them?

Clan mech quirks should focus on improving performance of mechs based mostly upon the model geometry. In order to retain the appearance of the previously establish battlemechs the designs are by neccessity based upon artwork that was never designed to perform in a video game like MWo.

Example: Let's say the Ebon Jaguar's center torso protrudes so far forward that by virtue of the model design the Ebon Jag can not effectivley roll damage around to other armor locals.This along with the removal of the arm's forward jutting barrel geo if missiles or lasers are placed in the arms reduces the Ebon Jags defensive manuvers effectivness when compared to a more humanoid mech design.

Then maybe if this turns out to be an issue the Ebon Jag should get some structure quirks in it's CT.If this still doesn't adjust the prejected performance then perhaps some mobility quirks and eventually the mech is a solid performer.

(note,the above was just an example)

Clan mechs should not have any weapon based quirks.The advantages clantech weapon SHOULD provide are the "quirks" .

The use of Inner Sphere quirking SHOULD be used to compensate for the clantech advantages.Clantech should when ever possible NOT be nerfed to perform in an inferior way to the I.S. equivilent system.

[JigglyMoobs]

Pgi's business model depends on people leveling mechs and buying mechs.

Some of the quirks are for balance but lets not kid ourselves that its not also a business decision.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 15 May 2016 - 11:19 AM.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Lykaon, on 15 May 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

Clan mech quirks should focus on improving performance of mechs based mostly upon the model geometry. In order to retain the appearance of the previously establish battlemechs the designs are by neccessity based upon artwork that was never designed to perform in a video game like MWo.

Example: Let's say the Ebon Jaguar's center torso protrudes so far forward that by virtue of the model design the Ebon Jag can not effectivley roll damage around to other armor locals.This along with the removal of the arm's forward jutting barrel geo if missiles or lasers are placed in the arms reduces the Ebon Jags defensive manuvers effectivness when compared to a more humanoid mech design.

Then maybe if this turns out to be an issue the Ebon Jag should get some structure quirks in it's CT.If this still doesn't adjust the prejected performance then perhaps some mobility quirks and eventually the mech is a solid performer.

(note,the above was just an example)

Clan mechs should not have any weapon based quirks.The advantages clantech weapon SHOULD provide are the "quirks" .

The use of Inner Sphere quirking SHOULD be used to compensate for the clantech advantages.Clantech should when ever possible NOT be nerfed to perform in an inferior way to the I.S. equivilent system.

Clan tech doesn't need to be nerfed to perform equivilantly to IS tech, at least on the IS mechs that have offensive quirks. It is already mostly on par because of quirks.

I am of the opinion of making all quirks defensive/mobility rather than offensive would do a lot for TTK regarding IS/Clan. Make them tough as nails compared to a Clan mech at the same weight, so as to allow IS players to get to where their weapon systems shine vs Clan tech (brawling). Where the Clan tech advantages (laser range, weight of ballistic/missiles) are hampered by pure huge heat spikes, pushing them and keeping a higher DPS at a shorter range is a good thing to do for most Clan builds.

Not saying pushing a brawler Timby is always a good idea, but pushing a laser vomit Timby will force him to overheat quickly, and can be out damaged by cooler running IS tech, built properly.

Not saying there isnt flaws with this setup, but it would make TTK increase for IS and Clan, making IS tougher would make TTK go up on IS mechs, and dropping offensive quirks on IS mechs naturally makes TTK on Clan go up as well.

This also would make IS mechs that missed out on the Quirkening more viable, as all mechs wouldnt have offensive quirks that make them the no brainer to use over a different mech, just speed/toughness quirks.

Vindy could become known for being the toughest 45ton nut to crack, ect. But maybe this is what PGI is already planning with the Resize Requirkening. We dont know yet.

[Tarl Cabot]

Team Chevy86, on 14 May 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:

It doesn't help PGI did severally blanket nerfs to Clans in an attempt to reign in the top tier mechs. Instead it just made bad Clan mechs worse and the top tier remained top tier. Suckoner, myth lynx, Ferret, Warhawk are still underwhelming.
They kind of got it figured out, buffing the CT of Clan omni mechs.

What blanket nerfs? PGI actually removed several negative quirks from Clan mechs, not all but most, while adding positive quirks.

The skill tree reduction hit both sides. The med/short range cLasers had their max range (but not their optimal range) reduced by 30% but they still outrange IS versions.

I would go as far as to say that many of the Mech Skill Tree items should not have been there to start with, such as the Cooling/Max Heat Scale cap increases, but then we did not have quirks then as we do now.

The lack of a more filled out Heat Scale, heat sinks adding their full value to the Heat Scale cap, the Skill Tree cooling/max cap increases has all lead to the ability for multiple alpha firing before the need to cool off, never mind the Heat gen quirks on top of that for many mechs. Do not forget the current Ghost Heat mechanic as an attempt to nix firing more than one set of weapons.

There is then also the ability to rapidly fire the larger energy weapons more quickly than done in some of the previous games and Solaris game book, allowing players to load up more instead of bringing more smaller backup weapons.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 15 May 2016 - 04:13 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Tarl Cabot, on 15 May 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

What blanket nerfs? PGI actually removed several negative quirks from Clan mechs, not all but most, while adding positive quirks.

Sadly its not Enough, Clan Quirks get at most Minor Quirks,
just look at the SHC, most can Agree it needs love, but what about Stacking OmniPods!!!
im sure that -5%C-ER-LL Heat Gen & -5% C-ER-LL Duration will make its ER-LASERS Viable,

Tarl Cabot, on 15 May 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

The skill tree reduction hit both sides. The med/short range cLasers had their max range (but not their optimal range) reduced by 30% but they still outrange IS versions.

Maybe hes not talking about the Skill Tree?
also most IS Mechs with +10% Energy Range and look IS out Ranges Clan,
and Please Dont Start with the, But IS-ML Has no where Near the Range of C-ER-ML,
one is ER(Extended Range), stop Asking why a jet goes faster than your Biplane

Tarl Cabot, on 15 May 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

I would go as far as to say that many of the Mech Skill Tree items should not have been there to start with, such as the Cooling/Max Heat Scale cap increases, but then we did not have quirks then as we do now.

Dont know Need to Run some Tests then, it has happened before,

Tarl Cabot, on 15 May 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

The lack of a more filled out Heat Scale, heat sinks adding their full value to the Heat Scale cap, the Skill Tree cooling/max cap increases has all lead to the ability for multiple alpha firing before the need to cool off, never mind the Heat gen quirks on top of that for many mechs. Do not forget the current Ghost Heat mechanic as an attempt to nix firing more than one set of weapons.

Agreed MWO could Benefit from a Proper Heat Scale,

Tarl Cabot, on 15 May 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

There is then also the ability to rapidly fire the larger energy weapons more quickly than done in some of the previous games and Solaris game book, allowing players to load up more instead of bringing more smaller backup weapons.

Agree as well,

[L3mming2]

ScarecrowES, on 15 May 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

https://twitter.com/...215670925942785

Also, for those interested, Russ says they're going to be looking at quirks on IIC mechs again very soon.

o my god this makes me "pee in my pants happy" the LCT 1E is 1 of my most beloved mechs at 12 % smaler it will be even harder to hit the resize cant come fast enough

[ScarecrowES]

L3mming2, on 16 May 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

o my god this makes me "pee in my pants happy" the LCT 1E is 1 of my most beloved mechs at 12 % smaler it will be even harder to hit the resize cant come fast enough

June ™

[SADOFATE]

I am waiting to see what quirks they get, but i doubt it will improve the Kodiak much. After they come out and i see what they do will decide for me if I even bother to keep the Mechs. It has almost no survivability eveb with torso twisring. It is too weak in its armor and the hitbox on the CT gives a greater advantage to other mechs. This is not a brawling mech by any means and it goes down too fast. I know there are people that disagree with my view but I am only stating what i have seen and experienced in Matches. Not to mention when Light mechs are saying they are going bear hunting for the fun of it a Kodiak pilot needs to be more than terrified.

[Gyrok]

Ace Selin, on 14 May 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

Oh Cmon, its easy to see why, PGI fears the 8 ERPPC Kodiak & rightly so as its going smash face.
The other Kodiak to watch for is the 10 Large Pulse Kodiak, cracking CTs & STs like nobody's business.
These mechs were right to not get quirks.

LOL! Not sure if serious...? Are you smoking something the aborigines gave you again?