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Viridian Bog: Feedback And Thoughts

Feedback Viridian Bog

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#1 Steven Hicks

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:21 PM

Hey Folks! It’s one of your friendly neighborhood level designers here. With the recent addition of new Level Designers at PGI, we’re hoping to take a critical eye to some of our previous maps and make changes that make these maps more enjoyable, tactical, and address any problems currently present..

You mean total reworks? Right?
Not necessarily. While some maps may need complete overhauls, we hope to make smaller changes to a lot of the maps. A lot of time from a lot of people can go into a map rework. With these forum posts we hope to achieve a way to iterate the already existing maps in a smaller more iterative process, similar to how we’ve been handling our Competitive Maps.

So we want you (Yes, you!) to help us designers outline what you like and don’t like about these maps. Nobody knows the levels better than the fine folks who play them every day. So we want you to post your thoughts and feedback here. We’ll be keeping a close eye on the forums as we work on the levels.

A good format for your feedback would be to outline your thoughts as such:

What do you like about this map?
Including what you like about the map helps us identify what should be kept in mind when design changes and even new levels. We don’t want to take out or ruin what you think makes a map special if we can avoid it. So let us know some of the things you prefer about the map.

What do you dislike about this map?
These are things you want us to look at and hopefully improve as we make changes. Keep in mind these things are from a Level Design standpoint. You can still express your concerns about things like art and game mechanics, but the main focus of these posts is things like spawn points, objective locations, and the overall layout of maps.

Our focus is currently set on Viridian Bog. So changes are going to start being made on that map first, and then we’ll move to another. We hope to do more posts like this if it goes well. But for now, lets hear your thoughts!

#2 TercieI

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:31 PM

Wow. Amazing news! I'll ponder for actual feedback on Viridian, but wanted to say "woo" at asking for input.

#3 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:35 PM

What do you like about this map?

It's colorful, plenty of cover to prevent sniping wars, and it's good to keep some small maps around for quick furballs.

What do you dislike about this map?

The dense foliage is impervious to weapons fire, which breaks immersion, and to passage from enemy mechs, which breaks my patience. Tiny roots shouldn't be holding up my Atlas. Way too many sloppy hitboxes around the various objects that blocks weapons fire when it shouldn't, and although some work has been done, I'm not sure the community is aware of the channels to identify and report bad geo. Additionally, the map design is centralized around one structure of strength in the middle, making "beat 'em to the stairs" the dominant strategy.


On a side note, Steven, I speak for the community when I say it's awesome to see you taking initiative to get community feedback. It means a ton. We look forward to the dialogue with you.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 26 May 2016 - 01:36 PM.


#4 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:41 PM

Feedback tonight or tomorrow. Short & sweet: I LOVE THE BOG, and I am very much in the minority for that.

I'll echo the above, though, and say that your direct involvement with us on this is GREATLY appreciated, and I hope it becomes a mutually-beneficial thing that can continue for years to come!

***EDIT***

Feedback as promised.

So, first things first, I love this map. It's imperfect, sure. It's not a COLD map, which I like, because reminding people to manage heat (and punishing those who don't) is important. It has some pretty steep elevation differences, and the sharp drops make it all the better. Having those ledges to look down over, as opposed to a more-or-less consistent slope, is something somewhat different, and that presents some interesting challenges. The terrace-like features, mobility notwithstanding, are pretty cool. And the giant bog-monster shells, baby bog monsters occasionally surfacing, and bog monster growls? LOVE that touch. The weird visibility with the vegetation? Let the haters hate, but I happen to love a map that makes us lean on the infotech a little bit and rewards us for doing so--I can aim at the middle of a red square and hit the target within it, even if I can't SEE that target, as long as I HAVE the red square and know the map well enough to know if the line-of-sight is free of hard obstructions.

So: Keep the terrace designs, keep the vegetation as obscurant to visual identification, keep the sharp elevation changes, and keep the temperature up. And DEFINITELY keep the bog monsters (Can we get a cockpit item baby bog monster? PLEASE, DAD?!).

Now, the not so great. MOBILITY! Getting up and down the 'steps' onto those mesas we CAN access without jump jets? It can be quite a pain. Some of that is in the code for movement, and some is in the collision stuff for the map itself. That latter part probably could use some love, since the former isn't likely to change before an engine upgrade. Roots and so on? They're not breaking away quite like we thought they would be after the map's mild reworking, and CAN still be a problem. It's BETTER, but the general consensus seems to be that it's still not GOOD ENOUGH.

Here's the REAL thing that bothers me, though, and some others have touched on it. The map is BIGGER than we play it, and it's actually pretty. But the VAST majority of the fighting takes place around the central features, as with all of the game's maps. That has to change. In the case of the Bog, it's around those two central mesas. It's bad enough that the 'steps' to the top are on one side, so whoever spawns on that side has a marked advantage. But those are THE central feature, around which we almost always fight. We've GOT to find a way to push the fighting out, or at least leave us the REASONABLE option to take the fight elsewhere. Maybe take that big, obstructive thing off the map in E5, and push it into D4, and expand the map itself into F5/F6/E6/E7. As it is, we have little reason to go into the lower water. It's kinda like Jenner Alley on Frozen City, in that it SHOULD make for a quick, concealed route for ECM lights to get behind the enemy and scout them out, but it's never used that way. So we need it to invite the mediums and heavies. That means, you'll need some cover down there, and some decent firing lanes to likely positions on the upper side.

As for Domination mode, you'll want to try to avoid sticking the objective on one of the mesas, and you likely already know this. Why? Because, as repeatedly stated in this thread (and others) (is 'lamented' a better word?), one side has a SERIOUS advantage with regard to ACCESSING the mesas sans-JJs. If you flipped the stairs on one of the two, that ALONE might go a fair way toward improving people's perception of the map. But that would still leave you having to put the Domination objective down low, somewhere, where either team can get into the green quickly and in a position with adequate cover. And I suspect that this will again lean on dealing with the big obstruction on E5, and moving it to D4, while expanding the map to that direction.

But that's just me.

TL;DR- Keep the things I like, deal with the mobility issues, and de-emphasize the central mesas. Maybe even try to FORCE movement and combat away from them and into other areas, partly by expanding the map.

THX!

Edited by Sister RAbbi, 26 May 2016 - 09:06 PM.


#5 Wuxian

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:43 PM

Why I like Viridian Bog:

The map as a whole offers a good amount of cover with overall low visibility with a lot of obstructions through the large trees and roots (which isn't bad). It's a nice change to the other maps in that it offers battlefield without a lot of elevation changes apart from the bog area and the plateaus.
Finally, I feel like the spawn points are pretty much spot on. The team is not entirely separated and can form up easily.

My issues with the map:

I think Viridian Bog's major downside is that the two large plateaus in the center are both accessible from only one side of the map. I'd try to flip one plateau around if it were up to me.
Less significant but more obvious would be the circle for the Domination gamemode.
Since the plateau there is only accessible from one side, the team that spawns there has an advantage in my opinion.
And then there's the small issue with the stairs. I get that it's mostly to enforce the theme of the map, but I think the stairs should be ramps which would probably cause less issues climbing up.

Edited by Wuxian, 26 May 2016 - 01:52 PM.


#6 Igor Kozyrev

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:48 PM

general thought: hardly traversable surfeces. Many believe that there should not be such surfaces in the game at all. It either should be: everything can move there easily, nothing can walk there and only available with jumpjets. Nothing in between them, cuz when mechs can walk on almost vertical sirfaces and can't step over some small bump it feels awful. The best exampe here are steps on two hills - they are bad and mechs can stuck there

Edited by Igor Kozyrev, 26 May 2016 - 02:14 PM.


#7 Night Thastus

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:49 PM

I should say in advance that this is one of my favorite maps. Highest K/D and W/L ratios on that map, I always enjoy it, etc, etc, etc. But here it is in a more organized form:

What I like about the map:

1: The "verticality" of the map.

The vertically raised platforms can be flanked around, hid behind, shot down from, shot up towards, etc, etc. It makes the fight far more dynamic. (and prevents nonstop sniping fests) This same effect is why the lower "bog" is very nice.

2: The edges or sides of the map have adequate cover, but aren't very far from the center. (Mainly using that vertical nature I mentioned earlier). This allows for flanking. Which is fantastic.

3: The map doesn't have a "central point". I, and many other players hate a "central point". (IE: Terra Therma's center, Moron Mountain in Alpine Peaks, center of Caustic Valley, etc)

These "centers" either lead to one team having an advantage (Terra or Alpine) or NASCAR. (spinning around in circles, like what happens on Caustic Valley)

4: It's got color in it. Muted or grey colors just suck. I personally take it a step further using a SweetFX shader to add more color, but at least Viridian has some color in it. (Could use more though. Maybe weird plants + stuff?)

5: Size. It's just right. Some of the newer maps are a little too big. Means we never get to explore it all (since spawn placement is static) and engagment takes a long time to start (lowing our C-bills per minute).

Viridian is just right size-wise for me. Small enough to allow manuvering behind the enemy, but not so small that it feels cramped.

What I dislike about the map:

1: Getting stuck. #1 complaint from almost all players. In a light or medium this isn't noticeable, but in a heavy or assault you get stuck on absolutely everything. The roots aren't destructible, the ramps up to the raised platforms are very easy to get stuck on (especially if you don't have a running start), the trees are often unbreakable, etc.

It's unbelievably infuriating to get stuck on stair when you're in a 100-ton death machine. We've heard that they looked at movement code before, but it just isn't enough.

2: Sight-lines and visuals. This is a big problem in MWO on the whole, but viridian amplifies it. You basically need to be in thermal vision for this map a good chunk of the time. Adding more contrast color-wise might help, reducing fog (a huge issue on the new Forest Colony), etc, etc might help.

But often you find that you can't see behind some completely BS static object that isn't destructible. Vines. A root. A tree. The number of times on that map where I've just wanted to brush back some vines so I'd have a clearer view is incredible. Why does a bunch of vines block my view in THERMAL mode from the fusion-reactor powered 'Mech behind it? How is that logic?

Make them destructible, make sure they won't block a firing line, or just remove 'em. Random clutter has its place to make a map feel more whole, but it shouldn't come at the cost of gameplay.

3: Funneling. I'm adding this a little late, so I hope you see it. Tarrogato did an excellent image showing this:

http://i.imgur.com/f83UNKM.png

The online lines in which most 'Mechs can move, and the way that the map is shaped forces all fighting to a central spot. That's bad. Makes matches repetitive, makes fighting predictable.

NOTE: Randomized, or multiple possible spawn points would do absolute wonders for maps in MWO. I don't know if it's possible, but please look into it.

Edited by Night Thastus, 27 May 2016 - 06:26 AM.


#8 VitriolicViolet

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:49 PM

If by 'smaller more iterative' and 'competitive' you mean smaller then i think its a terrible idea. While maps like Forest Colony are too big I think Viridian Bog is a good size, same with Canyon and Mining so you shouldnt go smaller than that.

In fact i'd say look at what works in Canyon Network I think its the best designed map by far nearly perfect from any angle.

I am a big fan of Viridian. My other preferred maps are Canyon Network, Mining Collective and Caustic Valley

Any way what i like about Viridian is how densely packed with leaves and trees it is, Forest isnt the same at all. The lay out allows for a nice mix of large organised pushes, ambushes and vertical gameplay. If anything id add more destructable trees and terrain. The map also benefits from multiple areas for large team fights, at least 4 major areas come to mind where as some maps have maybe 3.

What i dont like about Viridian is the occasional time you catch on terrain ( its still horrendous on Vitric Forge for that) and the fact that the densely packed leaves and trees will block my shots (despite how nice they look!) otherwise a new time of day option would be good. Imagine the map at dusk or dawn with think fog...

Edited by Violet Vitriol Price, 26 May 2016 - 01:55 PM.


#9 GMan129

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:53 PM

What do you like about this map?

It's not super-massive. It does have a few zones that are rarely utilized (mainly that big patch way out in the water where nothing happens in 99.9% of all matches), but you don't need to walk for more than, like, a minute to get to the fight.

What do you dislike about this map?
Movement is a total pain. The map is inundated with obstacles that trip you up, sometimes they're almost completely obscured by swamp gas. Jumpjets don't even help much as you can't vault over obstacles.

That's without even mentioning the stairs - the MWO movement mechanics are annoying when going up slopes, but the stairs are incredibly aggravating on this map. Just make them slopes or whatever, at an HPG-esque incline. There should be no point on them where my mech slows to a stop and forces me to regain lateral momentum in order to continue climbing.

Visibility is atrocious - not only is the whole map really muddled, but the leaves are bad. They mask the terrain so that you can't see enemies that you can shoot (horizontally and vertically), and present another dimension to the gameplay which is more annoying than anything else.

There's other stuff too, but that's what comes to mind.

#10 kyune mikawa

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:56 PM

I feel like the map could stand to be widened a bit to allow for more flanking opportunities due to its asymmetrical nature. Right now it feels like battles devolve into chokepoint or cliff standoffs, and there aren't a lot of lines of play that help you disassemble the opposing team's position without brute force or awkward positioning games (due to foliage) and hoping for the best.

#11 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:59 PM

Forrest Colony: Remove the "Archway" area... it's a gravitation point for fight's that offer's 0 tactical value on either side of it, yet people THINK that it does.

Frozen City[normal]: Fog/Snowstorm needs a pass, I THINK it's still using a legacy shader that often times tanks FPS by around 10-20 frames. It's gotten better over the years with other optimizations, but this has continually been a problem for me and others.

Terra Therma: While I personally like the map, I know there are lots of others that dislike it. I'm unsure of what to really change about this map, however perhaps a general update to it would be useful in some way, maybe adjusting how the center map fight plays out... or widening the tunnels possibly? Maybe some more cover in the center?

Alpine Peaks: More cover in general would be nice... it's still a great map as is, but it could use a bit more cover in the middle.

Viridian Bog: The last pass fixed a TON of issues I had with this map, and I don't feel like piloting an assault here is a death sentence anymore, but the limitations on ways up to the hills can be insanely frustrating. Perhaps some more climb points?

#12 Tennex

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:02 PM

All the large logs need to be breakable (ones crowding around that one stairs that everbody always gets stuck on)

Ledges need more access points, 1-2 sets of stairs per plateau

Love the style and art of the map.

Edited by Tennex, 26 May 2016 - 02:04 PM.


#13 WillyPete

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:14 PM

Viridian is a good example of adding "interesting features" to a map that never get used.
The only time I've seen the water route taken is during conquest. It's actually a good move to place Theta there so that people will go to the water.

It's not necessary for a sneaky flank move, you can stay on top for that.
It's not the only source of cover for lrms.
It's not really big enough for its own fight there. The platforms that lead in and out of it don't offer any real overwatch capability.
Jumping down into it to escape a brawl does nothing but remove a mech from your team's roster until they find and kill you.

Having it cut into the map more might change the dynamic, even having a slightly lower runoff from the waterfalls on the cliff and have a shallow stream cut across the map to it would add a bit more variety to the map and a reason for it to be there.

As it is, unless it's in conquest, that area serves less purpose during the fights.

Inverting it, and having a long meandering platform/ledge that runs over the same foot print would add a lot more difference to the game and a means to provide fire while your are flanking. People would use that side of the map more if that were the case.

#14 Tarogato

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:19 PM

Here's a discussion thread I started in regards to Bog's design:

https://www.reddit.c...diting_the_new/



There's some sketches there on ideas to improve Bog (in the form of heightmap/SDK mockups), but they weren't flushed out, just experimenting. Maybe if I get the time I'll gather feedback from this thread and post some proper ideas.

Edited by Tarogato, 26 May 2016 - 02:20 PM.


#15 mooky

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:23 PM

Other than the typical "some routes not used often" complaint (like lily pad area), my biggest complaint is the stairs up some platforms sometimes become trip hazards for bigger mechs.

Now I know they are natural rock formations and shouldn't be uniform and perfect and easy, but there are a few areas where there could be an extra step to bridge vertical elevations and just make things slightly smoother.

Other than that, I generally like the map, especially since a lot of the trip hazards on root structures was fixed.

#16 SpiralFace

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:25 PM

I'll keep to your format, but I will say that most of this feedback can be seen as general feedback for all of the levels. As Bog has some really good examples of what works and what doesn't in an MWO map.

What I like:

- High vertical terrain give's mechs with Multiple 5+ JJ's not only a purpose, but a map where they can thrive and not just in some Niche way.

- Many platforms only accessible through high JJ counts that actually give you room to move and have varied terrain in of themselves. Many other maps suffer from most "high verticle peaks" being nothing more then the tops of buildings that mostly just provide a giant "shoot me here" pedestal then something that could actually be used. Bog does a good job of having USABLE space that only mechs with high JJ count numbers can get to. (One issue with the game being that when customized, most won't go past 2 JJ's since bog is literally the only map where high JJ counts are seen as a boon on the map. It would be great if this lesson was taken to other maps.)

- The C4- C5 area. This area provides lots of tactical options. From the ground, there is a lot of clutter that allows mechs to advance into brawling range, but if a mech was to jump and take high ground or claim a hill, they have mostly open sniper lanes of fire for long range engagements. So the engagement heavily depends on how both opponents engage. Other areas of the map are more cut and dry given the pitfalls the map tends to have. But the C4 -C5 area is defiantly a strong point.

- No dominant play style.

There are equal opportunities for the map to be a long range snipe fest as it can be a predominantly brawling map. there are a multitude of things that work on the map (with the exception of heavy LRM play,) that comes down to how both sides manuver and play rather then what they simply brought to the field. (like you see on Alpine or Polar Highlands maps.)

What I don't like:

- FUNNEL MAPS. Sorry, I'm going to go into a bit of a rant here. But one of the biggest pitfalls of MANY MWO maps from many players perspectives is how the maps are built to funnel you into pre-determined locations and actually provide "LESS" tactical options the more you advance up the map rather then expand the options available to you. Bog is a good example of this. There is more playable area in the rear of the map then there is in the middle of the map, so while you can spawn across a wide area, most of the engagements of the map will ALWAYS revolve around a single grid space's worth of usable space in the map.

Bog is actually one of the maps where you can physically see this in its design. there are about 3 grid space's worth of usable space in the back line, but the second you get closer to the middle, it constricts the map almost an entire grid space by having the E5 area completely walled off to where you are ALWAYS going to fight over the central c4-d4 hill.

This is an almost infuriating part of MWO's map design up until this point where you have a vast, expansive back field that naturally starts constricting you into a limited areas of the map that it is unavoidable to not engage in. So matches then become a stale "who controls feature x" fight because there is little else they can do about it.

In this case, the C4-D4 hill. Everything in the map revolves around dealing with that hill. Because controlling that hill means you control everything on the map. Controlling both sides of that hill means you have clear firing lines to lock down the north and south area's of the map with nearly no alternatives for counter play on the map.

I REALLY hope that this is the biggest takeaway with this feedback that you guys receive, because nearly everyone I've talked to is sad that the natural funnels you see on maps like bog, River city, Forest Colony, Frozen City, Crimson straight and a few other maps squanders the vast open engagement areas of the rear by seeing the middle of the map provide the LEAST around of tactical options and varied engagements because there is no opportunity to play around certain features when walls, or other areas just funnel you into pre-determined 1-2 grid space zones that everyone needs to play around.

Players want the tactical options available to them to EXPAND the farther up the map they go to promote more varried engagements. Many of MWO maps "constrict" your options through their map / funnel designs that sees "wider" playable space in the backfield that never gets used because you pretty much have to deal with getting around the features that the map "funnels" you around to begin with.

- Lanes.

While I understand that Lanes are a core part of level design flow, many MWO maps kinda beat you over the head by having these lanes be a hard decision at the exact center of the map. In Bog's case, its either going through the B3 corridor, the C4 Corridor, or the D4 corridor.

Those are your options, and you have to deal with it one way or another.

Again, the fact that there are more varied /nuanced options in the back field rather then the big binary features in the mid field sees a constriction of strategies as you advance up to the mid point of the map rather then more opportunities open up to the player.

Also, if you guys do indeed make "low ground" paths, try to understand that these are essentially dead space on the map unless there is either an objection based reason to be down there, or it provides interesting ways to play / counter dominant play styles. Presently, the low ground is not that helpful because everyone just fights over c4 /d4 hill anyways, which the low ground does not provide any usable form of counter play against. So while its good for flanks in some cases, in most, its just unused space.

- Central terrain features.

D4 / C4 hill is too dominant on the map with very little ways to counter play around it. This is a common theme across many mwo maps where controlling the central terrain feature gives you a dominant position on the map. And Bog is no different. While central terrain features are unavoidable sometimes, there should always be a give and take to their use. The central "stage" of Tourmaline Desert is a good example of a central feature, that still has a good amount of counter play around it because while controlling it can be important, there are ways you can play around it.

- The stairs

Your going to get this a lot, but its really tough to climb those stairs for most mechs and is very annoying to deal with.

- East side dominance.

The fact that the east side gets easy access to BOTH of the hills in the center gives them a VERY dominating advantage in many game modes on this map (especially domination.)

Will list more if I can think of any, but thanks for looking into these.

Good luck.

Edited by SpiralFace, 27 May 2016 - 08:41 AM.


#17 FireBlood

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:39 PM

First off, I love this map. I love the colors and the vertical aspect of it all.

Things I would change:
  • Make the vertical aspect more pronounced by moving the 'bog' portion of the map to the center in-between the two tallest plateaus thus separating them with more than two levels of height and increasing their distance between each other.
  • With the bog being in the middle now with many ramps leading up I would also make foliage (Giant lily pads and trees) unable to be targeted through. Yes, you can still shoot down through the lily pads but if your target is underneath one then you cannot target him.
Other than those items this map is very fun to play, I look forward to seeing how it is improved.

#18 Bud Crue

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:41 PM

Steven,

Grateful for the interaction and initiative here. Truly. Means a lot to a lot of us.

As to the Bog:

What I like:

The fact that it is one of the few maps where a mech with multiple jump jets feels like the jets aren't a total waste. Lots of opportunity to get on top of or jump off of high terrain.

The carapaces of the dead critters as a terrain feature. Would like these to be destructible based on tonnage (smash through the side in an Atlas, but can't in a Cicada or something like that) but I can live w/o such an enhancement.

The general lay out. Lots of diversity and approach lanes, except for the middle. Which brings me to...

What I don't like:

The middle. The big mesa in the center is too dominant. My 2 cents is that it ought to be split up somehow. Even a tunnel under it. Anything to provide an alternative to the usual merry-go-round the thing that many matches seem to devolve into.

The steps, hidden terrain features and anything else that grinds a mech to a halt.

Thanks again for asking us for input, even if you end up ignoring all of it.

#19 Satya Agraha

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:46 PM

What I like:

-The colors of Viridian Bog are by far the best part of the map. The terrain and flora of this map are unique, bold, and just great. It stands out, against many of the other maps, as a planet worth defending.

-VBog has a great Vertical theme - the great fighting points are hills and pits, they offer advantages that can also be limiting (hugging the hills can deny high-ground advantages), and mechs that have sufficient Jump Jets have really interesting option available.

-The foliage is annoying, but unique. If I think about a bog or swap, I think that it will be foggy, full of vines and plants, and just plain hard-to-see-through. The map tries to do this, but I think it can go further.

-Avenues. This map has somewhat predictable fighting areas, but the approaches are not really far away, yet somewhat protected from random fire. There are ways to get around most defenses or to flank almost any position, with the exception of the hills that have only one set of stairs apiece - though, in this case, the stairs are very broad and enable somewhat interesting breaching attacks.

What I don't like:

-Indestructible Foliage is just no fun. I want more of the vines, spines, trees, and fog, but I think that they should not be AC-stoppers.

-Clumsy stairs. Different mechs handle these differently, and combined with the foliage, this makes moving around on the stairs unwieldy and random. Sometimes you'll get where you want to go, but more often than not, you'll get stuck, fall, 'jump' up quickly into fire, etc.

---And most of all - the unnatural heights and shapes of the hills. This map has, pretty much, three different heights represented - the swamp, the pits, and the hills. They are all absolutely flat, and all at about the same heights. This doesn't strike me as the way things would be in a swamp! Why not have the lower swamp full of slight undulating pools of slightly different heights? Why not add waterfalls or outcroppings to the hills? Why is the main 'floor' level completely FLAT throughout the entire map? It just seems lazy and takes away from the ambiance of the map.

All things considered, Bog is still one of my favored maps in the game. That said, I think with a little fixin', it could be MUCH better.

#20 East Indy

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:56 PM

What I Like:
Occasionally, teams can make the north/northeast sections of the map interesting with cat-and-mouse skirmishes, or push-pull standoffs that aren't like (boring) crowds of peeking 'Mechs.

What I Don't Like:
As with most setpiece maps (for example, new Forest Colony being the worst offender), the small number of very large obstacles where forces tend to meet causes many teams to move to similar locations match after match, and then get "hung up" on those obstacles, unwilling to commit to open spaces defining the rest of the map. Contrast this with the excellent Grim Plexus or Tourmaline Desert, which combine terrain variations with small clusters of structures and obstacles, allowing teams to move from cover to cover. MWO is not a MOBA.

It goes without saying that a single set of spawn points for each game type sells the map short. Also, I don't think it's controversial to argue that split-lance spawns don't add anything to the game.

Finally, movement around the map is hampered far too much by ground objects, including the shape/slope of mesa steps. Find other ways to convey this planet's environment.





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