53 replies to this topic

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

don't use windows 8. it's spyware garbage


but yeah, phenom quad, 6850, 4gb of ram, 500 watt power supply (check the amps) and a motherboard with only one pci express slot and heatsink on the mosfet and you're good to go. plus operating system, refurb drives, and 30$ case this should come in around 550 ish

Edited by Battlecruiser, 15 July 2012 - 11:59 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Battlecruiser, on 15 July 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

don't use windows 8. it's spyware garbage

How when it is technically a Microsoft developer package? From Microsoft itself? Downloaded from Microsoft servers?

Battlecruiser, on 15 July 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

but yeah, phenom quad, 6850, 4gb of ram, 500 watt power supply (check the amps) and a motherboard with only one pci express slot and heatsink on the mosfet and you're good to go. plus operating system, refurb drives, and 30$ case this should come in around 550 ish

Phenom II X4. 6870 is $20 more than a 6850 for a lot more performance, or there's the 7770 for the same / lower cost for the same performance and lower power usage, 8GB of RAM is only $5-10 more than 4GB of RAM. PSU wise, you're looking at a 550 with overclocking, 450 without. I wouldn't recommend a refurb drive when you can get a new WD 500GB 7200rpm for $65.

Just my input.

[Nuclear Xmas]

It really doesn't matter "how big of a gamer you are". What matters is how tasking the application you want to use is.

I haven't played MWO or know the system specs just yet. But it seems to be a pretty high end game that'll need a high end computer.

You may need to start saving your penny's until you have somewhat over 600$. Also, I wouldn't bother with alienware. They'll charge you for more than what you could be getting. The only thing alienware actually designs are cases and that software those computers use. And you should always expect to pay more for a bunch of glam and sparkle and a "established" name. I'd recommend looking at craigslist. To be dead honest. I know for my area I see people selling custom built gaming PC's all of the time. Might get a good deal there.

[CG Chicken Kn]

If you can wait a paycheck or two and bump your budget to around $800 you could get a massive increase in performance over your $600 budget. That is just for the tower, I'm guessing you are going to use your old kbd/mouse/monitor.You can get a local computer shop to assemble the parts from Newegg for a reasonable amount of money and get the most bang for your buck without building it yourself.

Make sure you get a quad core, AMD is more budget friendly and runs this game just fine. Four gigs of ram will do as well, just get it all on one stick so you can buy another 4 gig stick later. Get at least a mid tower case so you have lots of room in there for a big honkin video card... Good power supply is worth it. 500 gig hard drive is lots and they are cheap. Spend $30 or $40 dollars extra for a good aftermarket cooler and you will be rocking. This can all be done for $700 to $800 including assembly by the shop. Buying a copy of Win 7 64 bit may put you over a bit. But worth it.

Doing it this way, buying the decent parts and then having it assembled will get you the best pc you can for your money with out you actually building it.
http://www.maximumpc...lds_-_june_2012
If you want an idea of tested computers with the parts used. Just downgrade a few things like the SSD, (don't buy one). smaller hard drive, and ram that is not so pricey and you get in to your budget range.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Vulpesveritas, on 16 July 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

How when it is technically a Microsoft developer package? From Microsoft itself? Downloaded from Microsoft servers?


Phenom II X4. 6870 is $20 more than a 6850 for a lot more performance, or there's the 7770 for the same / lower cost for the same performance and lower power usage, 8GB of RAM is only $5-10 more than 4GB of RAM. PSU wise, you're looking at a 550 with overclocking, 450 without. I wouldn't recommend a refurb drive when you can get a new WD 500GB 7200rpm for $65.

Just my input.

6870's improvements are negligable at best for 20-30 more watts of power usage. x7xx cards have a 128 bit memory bandwith which is yuck. overclocking is for enthusiasts. 4gb is still all you need, and refurb drives are cheap and have the same doa rate as fresh equipment. Keep in mind that hard drives usually carry over from old computers, so If you are doing this I usually reccomend always buying at least one hard drive current with the level of tech in your new build for the operating system



if you are a non enthusiast that wants upgradability and computing power I came up with this for 600.92 before shipping and any applicable sales tax.

Case
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811103045
Power Supply
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817159125
Motherboard
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157291
CPU
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103996
RAM
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820145278
Vidcocard
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814102908
dvd
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827118031
storage
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822136591

Operating System
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16832116986


you may want to buy some more fans. these are very upgradable so don't worry about getting powerful loud and cheap ones to start with, you can always change them later.

I find the secret to ignoring loud fans is to buy a sealed headset

if you partition a section for the operating system, I recommend around 55 gb, and moving your documents folder
directories to a different partition section. this way if you get compromised you can scorched earth and keep all your personal stuff. some games however will need a reinstall
so to drop costs you can opt to

find an os elsewhere,

carry over optical and hard drives ( figure out if they're compatable first)

and reduce the graphics to a 6770, like I mentioned earlier. for the cost of antialiasing you've just saved 40$

re-use old case.

you can save anywhere from 17$ to 230$ doing this

but I would not recommend touching the motherboard or cpu. motherboard is good if you're never planning to multi videocard (multi gpu on same card is all the rage these days anyway), and the 4100 has a lot of bang.

and NEVER carry over a psu unless its only around a year or two old. capacitors degrade over time.


oh and a little warning about downloading things off the internet. sometimes legitimate sources of download can get hijacked, so it's good to check hash information to make sure you're not about to install zombieware

thankfully companies like microsoft and apple post their hash information for this reason among many others so verifying file integrity is easy

Edited by Battlecruiser, 16 July 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Congrats on linking another junk PSU that supplies 480W not 600...

The difference between a 6850/70 is between 5-15 FPS in most games.

Vulps original $600 build is better than that system you just linked.

Edited by DV McKenna, 16 July 2012 - 01:12 AM.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

DV McKenna, on 16 July 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

Congrats on linking another junk PSU that supplies 480W not 600...

The difference between a 6850/70 is between 5-15 FPS in most games.

Vulps original $600 build is better than that system you just linked.

While I approve of the motherboard power supply and hard drive, you're forgetting the fact I had to scrunch an operating system in there that isn't beta and going to expire, not to mention it's the most spywariest windows operating system yet. enjoy that killswitch.

actually the 4100 is superior to that processor, having 2x pcie slots when you're not planning to crossfire is a waste. you only need 4gb of ram for games, 5-15 fps when you're already reaching a stable number over your monitor's refresh rate is wasteful and 480 is really, all you need for this configuration. and i would never go for an inferior card for the same price. 7770 may be a newer generation than the 6850, but the 6850 is still much more powerful

so yes vulp's build is superior in several areas and I cannot see much wrong with it aside from the frivelous features that will never be used by your average "wut computer is good?" pc gamer.

they usually stick to one or two games, don't complain as long as the fps is in the 60's and stable, and between playing their one or two games they browse the internet.

so the biggest guideline is "can it play their favorite game well" (which in this case thanks to consoles, the answer is yes for a large range of hardware). after that everything is about cutting cost.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 16 July 2012 - 01:26 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Battlecruiser, on 16 July 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

While I approve of the motherboard power supply and hard drive, you're forgetting the fact I had to scrunch an operating system in there that isn't beta and going to expire, not to mention it's the most spywariest windows operating system yet. enjoy that killswitch.

actually the 4100 is superior to that processor, having 2x pcie slots when you're not planning to crossfire is a waste. you only need 4gb of ram for games, 5-15 fps when you're already reaching a stable number over your monitor's refresh rate is wasteful and 480 is really, all you need for this configuration. and i would never go for an inferior card for the same price. 7770 may be a newer generation than the 6850, but the 6850 is still much more powerful

so yes vulp's build is superior in several areas and I cannot see much wrong with it aside from the frivelous features that will never be used by your average "wut computer is good?" pc gamer.

they usually stick to one or two games, don't complain as long as the fps is in the 60's and stable, and between playing their one or two games they browse the internet.

so the biggest guideline is "can it play their favorite game well" (which in this case thanks to consoles, the answer is yes for a large range of hardware). after that everything is about cutting cost.

What part of Windows 8 is spyware exactly?
And you know that when the license expires it does not just stop working right? Heck there are trial versions of windows 7 out there that you can use past their 30 days untill you can afford to purchase the licence.

The 4100 is not a superior processor at all, infact both are almost equal in terms of gaming (4170 is a different story).
Given that your opting to take a mid range GPU of the last generation there is a pretty high chance that during the first 2 years that GPU will no longer cut it, and either need replacing or alternatively xfireing with another so a second slot is hardly a waste when you consider the future rather than now.

You only need 4GB of RAM for gaming, yea well once your OS and other programs have taken there share you'll be left with something like 2-2.3GB left. Given the relative price difference (small) between 4 and 8 GB, 8GB offers more value now and in the future, and again vulp has picked a superior set of RAM compared to yours.

The accepted FPS for a gamer is 60FPS you'll find that stated everywhere you look, so if your under that (which your build will be on anything over medium) 5-15FPS is a sizable increase.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

DV McKenna, on 16 July 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

What part of Windows 8 is spyware exactly?
And you know that when the license expires it does not just stop working right? Heck there are trial versions of windows 7 out there that you can use past their 30 days untill you can afford to purchase the licence.

The 4100 is not a superior processor at all, infact both are almost equal in terms of gaming (4170 is a different story).
Given that your opting to take a mid range GPU of the last generation there is a pretty high chance that during the first 2 years that GPU will no longer cut it, and either need replacing or alternatively xfireing with another so a second slot is hardly a waste when you consider the future rather than now.

You only need 4GB of RAM for gaming, yea well once your OS and other programs have taken there share you'll be left with something like 2-2.3GB left. Given the relative price difference (small) between 4 and 8 GB, 8GB offers more value now and in the future, and again vulp has picked a superior set of RAM compared to yours.

The accepted FPS for a gamer is 60FPS you'll find that stated everywhere you look, so if your under that (which your build will be on anything over medium) 5-15FPS is a sizable increase.

it's spyware because at any time they can hijack your computer and mess with your files. trusting the same people that sell the xbox? really? have you even read the end user license agreements? honestly I would not be surprised if at some point they start forcing advertisments onto your desktop/

as far as that "2 years that GPU will no longer cut it" claptrap, I can run games such as skyrim on ultra with 60fps with a 5770 by simply turning down shadows, and turning aa and aniso to 4x. I have friends with 4850's that still run games almost as good and would do it better if not for the memory type difference. I've built computers better than mine with very good hardware compared to what i've listed here, and the differences are very small in actual gaming. running benchmarks to feel good about yourself however is another story entirely.

as far as the 4100 goes,the performance difference is very minimal at best for less power usage and more modern technologies.

in fact, you seem to be splitting hairs here. many of the performance differences are very tiny and will not be noticed by anything other than benchmarking software. ESPECIALLY with ram. his ram is indeed better but you wont notice the difference between that and 8 gb of 1333 with 9-24 timings. things like "high performance" and "quality" in the computer world when we're not involving capacitors is just an excuse to charge more for an unoticable difference in performance.

average computer users dont even care whats in their computer as long as it works, where as an enthusiast hand picks everything and knows it by heart, so he can stroke his long johnson over names and numbers. (see: annoy his friends with **** they dont care about)

Edited by Battlecruiser, 16 July 2012 - 02:28 AM.

[Scilya]

Battlecruiser, on 16 July 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

it's spyware because at any time they can hijack your computer and mess with your files. trusting the same people that sell the xbox? really? have you even read the end user license agreements? honestly I would not be surprised if at some point they start forcing advertisments onto your desktop/

as far as that "2 years that GPU will no longer cut it" claptrap, I can run games such as skyrim on ultra with 60fps with a 5770 by simply turning down shadows, and turning aa and aniso to 4x right? I have friends with 4850's that still run games better than me. I've built computers better than mine with very good hardware compared to what i've listed here, and the differences are very small in actual gaming. running benchmarks to feel good about yourself however is another story entirely.

as far as the 4100 goes,the performance difference is very minimal at best for less power usage and more modern technologies.

in fact, you seem to be splitting hairs here. many of the performance differences are very tiny and will not be noticed by anything other than benchmarking software. ESPECIALLY with ram. his ram is indeed better but you wont notice the difference between that and 8 gb of 1333 with 9-24 timings. things like "high performance" and "quality" in the computer world when we're not involving capacitors is just an excuse to charge more for an unoticable difference in performance.

average computer users dont even care whats in their computer as long as it works, where as an enthusiast hand picks everything and knows it by heart, so he can stroke his long johnson over names and numbers. (see: annoy his friends with **** they dont care about)

on there own slightly tighter ram timings wont, but when you add all the little tweeks you get in with a quality build, you get not only better performance but you also get quality and reliability and in Manny cases better support if something goes wrong.

100 Mhz is a small difference 500 is much more the difference between the 965 and the 4100 is NOT AT ALL SMALL and you know what you damn well will notice a performance jump between that junk of a processor and the 965. go away and stop trolling no one who knows how to switch a pc on should ever be recommend a 4100 over a 965 and i dare you to try and argue the point with me

and wth? paranoid much??

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Scilya, on 16 July 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

and wth? paranoid much??

Thats kind of the part i read and decided this will not be worth the discussion ;p

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Scilya, on 16 July 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

on there own slightly tighter ram timings wont, but when you add all the little tweeks you get in with a quality build, you get not only better performance but you also get quality and reliability and in Manny cases better support if something goes wrong.

100 Mhz is a small difference 500 is much more the difference between the 965 and the 4100 is NOT AT ALL SMALL and you know what you damn well will notice a performance jump between that junk of a processor and the 965. go away and stop trolling no one who knows how to switch a pc on should ever be recommend a 4100 over a 965 and i dare you to try and argue the point with me

and wth? paranoid much??

I don't trust people, especially people who make me sign eulas that let them sell my information, or people that force me to look at adds, among things. besides that however, I prefer buying operating systems instead of using a beta. better user support.

and as far as 965 vs 4100 the 965 is more powerful than the 4100 by a minute amount, but since we've brought in bios fiddle faddle by talking about aftermarket tweaks not covered by warranty, the 4100 overclocks nicely on stock heatsink with minimal voltage adjustments, where as the phenom 2 has the max temp handicap. if you know better however i'd appreciate some literature instead of recieving personal attacks.


as far as little tweaks go, if he's already admitted to not knowing much about computers (kudos for insulting him with that power button remark you elitest) going to build this himself, you really think he can manage fiddling in the bios all by himself? or that he'll even care to? I mean of course if you're going to violate warranty coverage for him then its another story entirely.


really though, we're ******** up his help thread with this internet argument. I'm sure he'll just wind up with a dell or something anyway

Edited by Battlecruiser, 16 July 2012 - 03:00 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Battlecruiser, on 16 July 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

I don't trust people, especially people who make me sign eulas that let them sell my information, or people that force me to look at adds, among things. besides that however, I prefer buying operating systems instead of using a beta. better user support.

That excludes you from most of life then, i guess you don't use Facebook,Google,MSN,Bing,Yahoo or anything like that at all do you..

Quote

as far as little tweaks go, if he's already admitted to not knowing much about computers (kudos for insulting him with that power button remark you elitest) going to build this himself, you really think he can manage fiddling in the bios all by himself? or that he'll even care to? I mean of course if you're going to do it yourself for him then its another story entirely.

Thing is, if your building a budget system with low end parts overclocking is your best friend and something you should invest your time into looking in too, asking questions and heck their are you tube step by step tutorials these days for just about every combination of hardware out.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

DV McKenna, on 16 July 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

That excludes you from most of life then, i guess you don't use Facebook,Google,MSN,Bing,Yahoo or anything like that at all do you..

I use search engines that don't track. and no I don't use facebook, I prefer my private life to stay private. twitter on the other hand is a nice place to meet up fast with friends. (nice flame attempt btw, why is this turning into a personal attack session?)

DV McKenna, on 16 July 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

Thing is, if your building a budget system with low end parts overclocking is your best friend and something you should invest your time into looking in too, asking questions and heck their are you tube step by step tutorials these days for just about every combination of hardware out.

why overclock when you wont visibly see a difference in performance except on a benchmark? 100 fps looks the same as 85 fps the same as 60 fps on a 60hz monitor.

I can understand overclocking a 500 mhz difference on the processor for around 8 fps if you're not getting a desired stable number in-game. but ultimately overclocking is dangerous and shortens the lifespan of good products the moment you get voltage involved.

the only real reason for overclocking is to brag, honestly. It's a lot like gearheads and their super ridiculous over 9000 horsepower sleeper cars they go on about. is it a hobby? yes. is it cool? yes. is it practical for an average person as their daily driver? no.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Battlecruiser, on 16 July 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

I use search engines that don't track. and no I don't use facebook, I prefer my private life to stay private. twitter on the other hand is a nice place to meet up fast with friends. (nice flame attempt btw, why is this turning into a personal attack session?)

No flame simple statement, you do know how Twitter makes money don't you? IE: exactly the sort of practice you just said you hate...

Quote

why overclock when you wont visibly see a difference in performance except on a benchmark? 100 fps looks the same as 85 fps the same as 60 fps on a 60hz monitor.

I can understand overclocking a 500 mhz difference on the processor for around 8 fps if you're not getting a desired stable number in-game. but ultimately overclocking is dangerous and shortens the lifespan of good products the moment you get voltage involved.

You've never really done any overclocking on a custom built budget machine have you? It can be the difference between a playable game and an enjoyable game.
Overclocking is not dangerous as long as anyone has a brain, common sense dictates you overclock in small jumps and test each jump before doing more.
As too the second point, overclockers will do it right out of the box and get the same lifespan as regular users out of their components you keep the hardware within its limits and its perfectly safe overclocking is not about pushing hardware past its limits..

Im actually wondering if you even understand the concept behind it.

Oh something i missed in one of your previous posts some manufactures now include overclocking in their warranty.

Edited by DV McKenna, 16 July 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[Shivus]

CPUs have maximum safe voltages and temperatures that they're designed to run within. With a cheap aftermarket HSF you can get 1ghz+ overclocks while remaining within the safe range. These days it's as easy as tweaking the multiplier on intel "K" series CPUs, and gently increasing voltage as necessary. AMD has had multiplier unlocked chips for some time, while it's only a recent addition to intel's mainstream chips. With modern CPUs it's actually more a challenge to break the safe voltage limit than it is to remain under it. These chips are safe to run at those speeds and voltages for years upon years.

The only things required along with a decent cooler and airflow, if you want to overclock both CPU and GPU, is a reliable PSU with solid internals, and specifically for the CPU, a good motherboard which can be had for under $100 now.

Edited by Shivus, 16 July 2012 - 03:45 AM.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

DV McKenna, on 16 July 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

No flame simple statement, you do know how Twitter makes money don't you? IE: exactly the sort of practice you just said you hate...



You've never really done any overclocking on a custom built budget machine have you? It can be the difference between a playable game and an enjoyable game.
Overclocking is not dangerous as long as anyone has a brain, common sense dictates you overclock in small jumps and test each jump before doing more.
As too the second point, overclockers will do it right out of the box and get the same lifespan as regular users out of their components you keep the hardware within its limits and its perfectly safe overclocking is not about pushing hardware past its limits..

Im actually wondering if you even understand the concept behind it.

Oh something i missed in one of your previous posts some manufactures now include overclocking in their warranty.

again with the personal attacks [sigh]. At least the internet never changes.
back to the discussion,
good thing to know it's covered in some warranties now. last time i read one of those little white pamphlets(read: complimentary paperback novel) that came with hardware was in 1998 and that was to check jumper configurations

my b55 will do 4 stable but the temp limit really worries me so I keep it a bit lower because my after market cooler isn't the best. probably going to replace that the same time i do the psu and videocard.

as for my 5770 you're right. i had to change the stock hsf because it was garbage but was definitely worth the effort.

but what does this have to do with an average joe?

and better yet going closer to the topic at hand in the thread, why has nobody shown me proof the 965 is fantastically superior to the 4100 yet like they've claimed it is? This among all things has my actual interest.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 16 July 2012 - 03:57 AM.

[Scilya]

Battlecruiser, on 16 July 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

I don't trust people, especially people who make me sign eulas that let them sell my information, or people that force me to look at adds, among things. besides that however, I prefer buying operating systems instead of using a beta. better user support.

and as far as 965 vs 4100 the 965 is more powerful than the 4100 by a minute amount, but since we've brought in bios fiddle faddle by talking about aftermarket tweaks not covered by warranty, the 4100 overclocks nicely on stock heatsink with minimal voltage adjustments, where as the phenom 2 has the max temp handicap. if you know better however i'd appreciate some literature instead of recieving personal attacks.


as far as little tweaks go, if he's already admitted to not knowing much about computers (kudos for insulting him with that power button remark you elitest) going to build this himself, you really think he can manage fiddling in the bios all by himself? or that he'll even care to? I mean of course if you're going to violate warranty coverage for him then its another story entirely.


really though, we're ******** up his help thread with this internet argument. I'm sure he'll just wind up with a dell or something anyway

sigh
1. almost all eulas are now like that, the government scans and reads most mail now a days, just be thankfull your not chinese.

2. the 965 is ALOT better than the 4100 not just a bit A LOT

3. what is bios fiddle faddle,..

4. lol so the 4100 has no max temp but the phenom does??? whaaaat drugs u on and where can i get them?

5. clock for clock the phenom is faster it has more cores than the 4100 max temp is by a rule of thumb as low as possible it all helps most normal users will be trying to keep around 55-60 under load

6. i do know much better bieng an amd fan ive had a 975 overclocked to 5.2 Ghz thats just an overclocked 965 unles you get that 4100 overclocked to probably 5.8 Ghz at least it wont stand up to it
at the end of the day the phenom architecture is better than bulldozer the 410 just cant stand up to a true quad core.
when im overclocking i don't need to worry about heat so i see what a cpu can do and i can even put in more voltage than there rated for if only for short times, the average user wont ever need to go above 1.50000 V ive taken my 960T up to 1.8 for a short time and its fine. ive got carried away and been rambling lol but all your arguments are invalid and filled with wrong information

7. i wasent insulting him with that remark it was aimed at you since you have just come in to the thread and started with all this rubbish

hell now adays you dont even need to fiddle rond in the bios manny motherbords will overclock them selvs, sure its not a great overclock but its easy to do

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Scilya, on 16 July 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

sigh
1. almost all eulas are now like that, the government scans and reads most mail now a days, just be thankfull your not chinese.

2. the 965 is ALOT better than the 4100 not just a bit A LOT

3. what is bios fiddle faddle,..

4. lol so the 4100 has no max temp but the phenom does??? whaaaat drugs u on and where can i get them?

5. clock for clock the phenom is faster it has more cores than the 4100 max temp is by a rule of thumb as low as possible it all helps most normal users will be trying to keep around 55-60 under load

6. i do know much better bieng an amd fan ive had a 975 overclocked to 5.2 Ghz thats just an overclocked 965 unles you get that 4100 overclocked to probably 5.8 Ghz at least it wont stand up to it
at the end of the day the phenom architecture is better than bulldozer the 410 just cant stand up to a true quad core.
when im overclocking i don't need to worry about heat so i see what a cpu can do and i can even put in more voltage than there rated for if only for short times, the average user wont ever need to go above 1.50000 V ive taken my 960T up to 1.8 for a short time and its fine. ive got carried away and been rambling lol but all your arguments are invalid and filled with wrong information

7. i wasent insulting him with that remark it was aimed at you since you have just come in to the thread and started with all this rubbish

hell now adays you dont even need to fiddle rond in the bios manny motherbords will overclock them selvs, sure its not a great overclock but its easy to do

so you admit you were making a personal attack towards me then. okay then.

as far as temp cap goes, phenom's is lower than bulldozer.

and you say the 965 is better but fail to provide proof I'm not even kidding when I say This is the only thing keeping me from going to bed.


It's obvious you're an enthusiast with an elitist attitude. not sure what you attempt to gain other than a boost to your own ego by bringing this kind of talk into a thread of this nature. but seriously now, proof pls.

[Shivus]

Battlecruiser, on 16 July 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

but what does this have to do with an average joe?

and better yet going closer to the topic at hand in the thread, why has nobody shown me proof the 965 is fantastically superior to the 4100 yet like they've claimed it is? This among all things has my actual interest.

Average joe by throwing down an extra $20 on an aftermarket HSF, and doing a little research (watching a youtube video on overclocking his chip) can safely overclock his CPU by anywhere from 600mhz to well over 1ghz. Back in the C2Q days this meant running a q6600 at 3.0 ghz rather than the stock 2.4ghz. You essentially got a chip that cost double at the time for $20 more. The E5200(or was it 4200) was also an overclocking demon. stock clock was something similar like 2.4 ghz, but it was the first wolfdale that could hit 4.1ghz+ without sweating.

These days core i5 sandybridges won't have an issue hitting 4.6 ghz on a cheap air cooler. And there have been individuals who somehow managed to make their FX chips hit 5ghz stable on the stock cooler.

Average joe gets more performance for his dollar and a little research.

Also the multithreaded performance of the 4100 and 965 are near identical, 4100 is a bit behind unless heavily overclocked. 965 however firmly clobbers bulldozer in lightly threaded and single threaded applications and games. Similar to how in the other thread, my C2D calculated pi faster than Mr. McKenna's 8 core bulldozer despite him having a 200mhz and 6 core advantage. While he soundly bested me in cinebench due to the more cores. Additionally, bulldozer requires more power at load than the deneb and thubian counterparts.

Practically speaking, a few months ago on the WoT forums some poor individual who upgraded to an 8150 bulldozer was disappointed in the loss of performance over his previous chip. WoT is one of many single threaded games. So on top of only fully using 1 of his 8 cores and threads, bulldozer has terrible, terrible performance when it can't fully utilize its architecture.

And for god sakes someone find a benchmark where phenom II bests the 4100 in a variety of tests. I saw many while researching them, but can't for the life of me find one good one now.

Edited by Shivus, 16 July 2012 - 04:19 AM.