22 replies to this topic

[SS4GOGETA]

First off I only started playing this game this year, so this could be outdated information. But I read that the Vindicator is a bad mech. Is there any reason or reasons why it would be considered a bad mech. Is it better now, if anyone has any knowledge of why it could be considered bad I'd like to know. I've got my skill tree on it maxed and very much enjoy it.

Also other questions related to the Vindicator, the one I own is I think the VND-1AA, the one with two AMS hardpoints. And I noticed that it has quirks that help missiles. But it didn't specify which missiles. SRM, 2/4/6 LRM 5/10/15/20. So I would assume that it counts for any type of missile. But it also has quirks for PPC velocity +50%. So is that specifically for the PPC or will the ER PPC count as well? Because if only the standard one counts, then even despite the range reduction it would be better to use the PPC for 1800M/s velocity as opposed to 1300M/s for the ER PPC.

So if you read this far thank you and if you can help in any way thank you.

[cazidin]

Poor hitboxes due to geometry, a low engine cap limiting its speed and few hard points on a mech with limited tonnage are basically all factors against it. It isn't fast, it's not well armed and it isn't a mighty fortress. What does it do well?

PPC quirks apply to both PPCs and ER PPCs.

[PhoenixFire55]

Stay as far away from it as you possibly can. It is trash on an entirely different level of trash.

[wanderer]

Vindicators get none of the potential positives they should.

They're underhardpointed. Those hardpoints are not well placed. It's agility is poor due to low engine cap. It's quirks tend to focus on PPCs, which aren't great weapons to begin with.

And the Blackjack blows it out of the water.

Piloting one is suffering you don't have to endure.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The Vindicator is a hard mech to use. It is low in tonnage (45 tons) for a medium mech making it fragile. This is made worse by the Humanoid torso which makes it an easier target to hit (large forward surface area). Other than the 1AA, the mech is also a bit slow for it's low tonnage and it's hard points are a bit limited.

Overall it is one of the harder mechs to use in the game due to it's downfalls.

Now if you do want to run the Vindicators, and you have a 1AA, you can go a few routes.

First of all you can make a fast PPC sniper. Generally install 2 PPCs, 1 MLaser in the head, the fastest engine, and all the JJs you can install. It will require running Endo Steel and Ferro armor. It will do about 112kph (I think, maybe 114), it jumps wonderful, and it has the great PPC quirks to boot. You could run ERPPCs, but I think you would find it's too hot.

Secondly you could run a LRM skirmisher. Bishop Steiner has a good build for this. Basically 4 MLasers and an LRM 15 if I remember. Again, keep it fast and use it to harass the enemy.

If you skill tree the mech, I recommend 2 LPLasers, 3 MLasers for the Vindicator 1R and 2 A/C5s and 2 MLasers for the 1X. The 1X could also do 3 A/C2s for the lolz or a PPC and Ultra 5 (or A/C5) if you wish.

The Vindicator 1X will probably be your most frustrating ride.

In either case, I hope that helps.

[Old Farkas]

I am not a statistics fan when talking about mechs in MWO. But i tend to agree with the general population for the Vindicators.

When i play with a mech, i feel the mech. I don't care about numbers (engine cap, hardpoints, quirks etc.). I mastered 3 Vindicators. It was not a easy ride, but i did it with fun. Vindies forces you to change tactics. Those tactics are similar to those i use with heavy mechs except that i never take the front line with them.

I did like play with them. I would take them out from time to time. But i do think that it is not a good mech, generaky speaking. The only reason to invest C-Bills, is for the fun of the chalenge.

I saw many pilots do very good in a Vindie. I did some prety good matches. But not as good as Hunchies or Blackjacks.

It is up to you. If you have C-Bills and time to master them then go for it. If not, take those C-Bills on Blackjacks.

[LT. HARDCASE]

I say this as someone who mastered all of them, 1X included.

Don't waste your cbills on them. Buy Blackjacks, or wait for the Phoenix Hawks.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 31 May 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[GrimRiver]

The Vindies are in a bad state right now(or should I say mostly been).

45 tons of under gunned, under quirked and too big for it's weight class.

Literally every other medium is a better choice.

Shad hawks

BJ

Cent

Crab

Enforcer

Hunchback and it's IIC versions

Griff

Wolverine

Stormcrow

Are all good mediums.

I should say I'm not trying to make feel like you wasted c-bills or force you to sell it, it's just we're trying to save you from the headaches and pain the vindies will inflict on you.

Edited by GrimRiver, 31 May 2016 - 05:31 PM.

[cazidin]

LT. HARDCASE, on 31 May 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

I say this as someone who mastered all of them, 1X included.

Don't waste your cbills on them. Buy Blackjacks, or wait for the Phoenix Hawks.

Sadly, even the Phoenix Hawk will suffer from a bit of Vindicator syndrome if the geometry, size and hard points are any indication.

[MeiSooHaityu]

cazidin, on 31 May 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

Sadly, even the Phoenix Hawk will suffer from a bit of Vindicator syndrome if the geometry, size and hard points are any indication.

I think so too, and for the reasons you stated.

As a plus though, the PXH will have an ECM variant, a MASC variant, and one chassis with 8 energy. On the flip side though, the variants with mixed ballistics and no ECM or MASC (and I'm even on the fence about the MASC variant being THAT great) will probably be duds unless the quirks are good.

Regradless, at least practicing and being proficient with a Vindicator should be excellent training and preparation for the Phoenix Hawk.

[Tarogato]

Vindicator is bad because it has low mounts, limited hardpoints, is overscaled, and no quirks to make up for it. In other words, it has to expose most of itself to deal a relatively menial amount of damage (or if you run bigger guns, it runs rather hot). Compare it to the Blackjack... which often runs similar loadouts, but it small, and has high hardpoints, AND good quirks.

[Archangel.84]

I've actually been running my St. Ive's Blues for the last couple days for the hell of it and maybe it's just because people overlook it or maybe I'm just so familiar with it, but I've actually been having a lot of luck with it overall. Which doesn't say it's a good chassis, but if you get to really liking it, it can work for you.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

If I were to point one worst mech in the game, I would choose the Vindicator.

Before requirkening, the 1AA was actually viable, if used right. The rest was garbage, but at least there was 1 viable model. The trick was to jump between covers and poptart like crazy. It was jumpy and agile just enough to do that.
Requirkening+skill tree changes buffed the terribad versions of the Vindi to less terribad, but still terribad status, while actually nerfing the only useable one, the 1AA . Low engine + no agility quirks + nerfed agility skills made it just too sluggish to actually poptart in that one manner I found it could work well.

In the meantime, it's already better peers, Ferret and Blackjacks were buffed like crazy accross all variants.
I guess we have to wait for resize and hope for the better. I just hope they won't actually nerf Vindi's quirks for making it smaller...

[Flitzomat]

The 1R is better than the 1AA but most refuse to see this. I just mastered them for "fun" and although you can get pretty good matches in the 1R or 1AA variant if you are left alone, they are nothing that I would in any way recomend to a relatively new player.
The low mounts make it pretty difficult to get your shots on the target if you are standing on top of things, or below of things, or behind of things, or next to things

PhoenixFire55, on 31 May 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Stay as far away from it as you possibly can. It is trash on an entirely different level of trash.

And then there is the 1 X which comes down to trashception: It is trash on an entirely different level of trash on an entirely different level of trash

Edited by Flitzomat, 01 June 2016 - 05:07 AM.

[Tarogato]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 01 June 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

Requirkening+skill tree changes buffed the terribad versions of the Vindi to less terribad, but still terribad status, while actually nerfing the only useable one, the 1AA . Low engine + no agility quirks + nerfed agility skills made it just too sluggish to actually poptart in that one manner I found it could work well.

Actually, the 1AA is the one with the high engine cap. Also, the BJ-3 has the same lower engine cap as the other Vindicators, and it has no agility quirks, yet it is one of the best medium mechs in the game. The engine cap is not a big deal, nor is the agility. It's the mounts, scale, and to a lesser extent the structure quirks that makes the difference.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Flitzomat, on 01 June 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

The 1R is better than the 1AA but most refuse to see this. I just mastered them for "fun" and although you can get pretty good matches in the 1R or 1AA variant if you are left alone, they are nothing that I would in any way recomend to a relatively new player.
The low mounts make it pretty difficult to get your shots on the target if you are standing on top of things, or below of things, or behind of things, or next to things


And then there is the 1 X which comes down to trashception: It is trash on an entirely different level of trash on an entirely different level of trash

The 1R is pretty good (as far as Vindicators go). I'd say it is on par with the 1AA, they just excel in different ways IMO. I run the traditional 2 PPC Vindi 1AA to ok effect, and I run the 1R with 2 LPLasers and 3 MLasers for some good mid range punch. I just always try and remember to hang near cover or follow other units when possible.

The 1X is not so good. Still, I do like running it with 3 A/C2s. Not terribly effective, but it is amusing and the high DPS means it is good at "securing" kills. It seems to be more fun at tier 3 ~ 5 those opponents seem to scatter when being hit. Tier 1 and 2 opponents know a bit better.

If you want, a 1X can do 1 PPC and 2 A/C2s and it is still interesting. I just don't believe the 1X can ever truly be effective.

Overall, multiple ballistics on a low tonnage medium is generally a bad thing (and why a few Phoenix Hawk variants will be bad).

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Vindi is very good mek, but in Stock Mode.
Currently forgotten cr/ap in MWO.

[Flitzomat]

MeiSooHaityu, on 01 June 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

I run the traditional 2 PPC Vindi 1AA to ok effect, and I run the 1R with 2 LPLasers and 3 MLasers for some good mid range punch.

Try the 1R with 2PPC and 3ML. You don´t need the speed as you are trying to stay behind your Buddies anyways to snipe along and the 3 ML gives you better chances in Light defence.

THE main reason why the Vindi sucks imho is that there is not one variant in which you are not totally depending on your team.

BTW I played the 1X as ERL/Gaus Troll. Does need some time to master as DMG output is always low but trolling is ok if you can handle the frustration coming along

[MeiSooHaityu]

Flitzomat, on 01 June 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

Try the 1R with 2PPC and 3ML. You don´t need the speed as you are trying to stay behind your Buddies anyways to snipe along and the 3 ML gives you better chances in Light defence.

I've run that before. Yeah, it is pretty decent as well. I think I went to 2 LPLasers because I just wanted it to play more different than the 1AA.

I ran the 1X with a gauss rifle before too (Gauss and a pair of MLasers). The biggest problem I found was that Gauss would detonate from a critical hit rather frequently and would transfer enough damage to my side torso to kill me. It just seemed like too much of a ticking time bomb to run.

[Percimes]

Tough mech to play. Slow and, very tanky and don't expect great alpha strikes with them, except the 1R maybe.

Haven't played the 1R in ages now, but it was ok with it's med pulses. So long as you don't agro anyone too much you can do well.

Everyone told you about the AA, you already got the AA, no need to tell you more.

Don't know much about the St. Yves, although I think it's one of the best looking mech in the game.

And then there's the 1X. Probably the one I play the most because I rarely do well in it, so it's always a challenge. Everyone will tell you mine has a horrible loadout. 3 MGs, LRM10 with artemis, 1 med in the head and a large pulse in the right arm. Sometime I want to play a match on hard mode, I choose that Vindicator in those occasions.