22 replies to this topic

[crashlogic]

We lose a match 12-6 I do 910 Damage, 2 kills and 4 assists and its my LRMs that lost the match? Oh my ******* christ. LRMs may be a mediocre weapon but splitting a team by yoloing into the enemy does way more harm to the team than me bringing an LRM boat.


Okay gripe done...go back to your regular scheduled PGI bitching:
Heat is messed up
energy allocation won't fix it.
LRMs Suck except for LRM 5's which are op.
Oxides are OP, unless they mount LRM5's in which case the suck.
Voting needs to go away.
Assault needs turrets.
insert your gripe here.....

[Pariah Devalis]

Shamelessly stealing this quote from reddit:

"LRM locks are like {Richard Cameron} at a urinal: real men hold their own."

I have very little issue with LRM players so long as they push with the team, get their own locks (or try to at least), and are willing to take their share of the damage. I have a massive problem with those who hide in the back, take little to no personal risk, and as a result force the other players in the team to absorb the LRM mech's portion of the enemy fire as a result.

[Idealsuspect]

crashlogic, on 17 June 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

We lose a match 12-6 I do 910 Damage, 2 kills and 4 assists and its my LRMs that lost the match? Oh my ******* christ. LRMs may be a mediocre weapon but splitting a team by yoloing into the enemy does way more harm to the team than me bringing an LRM boat.


Okay gripe done...go back to your regular scheduled PGI bitching:
Heat is messed up
energy allocation won't fix it.
LRMs Suck except for LRM 5's which are op.
Oxides are OP, unless they mount LRM5's in which case the suck.
Voting needs to go away.
Assault needs turrets.
insert your gripe here.....

910 damage and you did kill only 2 guys ?
but you need to learn pinpoint bro ...

Oh you were lrms boat ok sorry aimbot ( troll but its true in fact you dont really aim... ) who aim for you dont know anything about pinpoint keep fighting behind yours teamates without get any kills before half your team is down.

Ghost damage system work pretty well for this tier 3 guy. ( damn one guy we have to carry coze of this stupid MM and psr system )

Edited by Idealsuspect, 17 June 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[Tordin]

You bet Im LURMING, oh yeah! But sure I usually go in the 2nd line with my team. And make sure my lurmer mech have the following when possible.

- XL engine, lrm mechs arent mcuh meant for close range combat anyway
- Bap
- Command console (rarely though), Target computers if possible on clan mechs
- Artemis if I use lrm 15 and 20, just icing on cake if I have spare room on an lrm 5/ 10 mech
- ECM if any (hey Tempest, nice to have you!)
- AMS, for counter lurming/ if I have decent backup weapons for some semi - brawling until I can reach enemy lurmers when Im empty.
- Yeah and tag! Hold your own ding dong lock But only if energy hardpoints are high up on torsos or even on arms.

But all this ONLY if the random team seem to KNOW the they are doing and dont mindlessly toss themself at an enemy with better tactical advantage! Its also bad business when the team spreads to the winds without any direction. Force me to use my backup weapons if any, to help out what I can.

[SteamCharts Kerensky]

*while hiding behind a wall, spraying random components with literal ONES of damage*

"Huh, how come my teammates are dying? Idiots! I'm doing so much damage with my LRMs! Pretty soon I'll have that *checks damage display* right arm open!"

"Keep on torso twisting, little buddy! And hold that lock!"

[Tatula]

LRMs, though not the most effective weapon system, does get bothersome in some situations. Especially on maps with very little cover (Polar Highlands for example). If I'm in a brawler and am engage with the enemy at close range (meaning they have target lock on me or an UAV directly above me), having LRMs dropping on me, stripping armor and shaking cockpit, or even kill me, in addition to having to fight the nearby enemies is no fun. That's why I usually make it a point to call out the enemy LRM locations whenever I can in hopes of a teammate (preferably an ECM light or fast medium) will take advantage of a possible easy kill. If I'm in a light, I try to make it my responsibility to hunt and kill or at least distract these "support" mechs, be it LRM boats or snipers.

I do agree that the LRM boats or snipers who hide WAY in the back lines while their teammates take all the damage are not contributing as much as they should. This is specially true if it is an assault mech (although some faster assaults, such the the Battlemaster with a big engine or the Warhawk on the Clan side make decent missile boats because they can keep up with the pack).

Overall, LRM has its place in the game, but most people will think it requires no skill due to the auto-locking mechanics. The skill part is your positioning and reading the battle situation correctly so you can provide the support where it is needed most. I occasionally run my KTO-18 with LRM5s as a harasser. Or my BLR-1S when I feel like mixing it up. Just don't expect your team to respect your damage numbers or kills if you're not near the front lines among your teammates.

[Idealsuspect]

Aloha, on 17 June 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

Overall, LRM has its place in the game, but most people will think it requires no skill due to the auto-locking mechanics. The skill part is your positioning and reading the battle situation correctly so you can provide the support where it is needed most. I occasionally run my KTO-18 with LRM5s as a harasser. Or my BLR-1S when I feel like mixing it up. Just don't expect your team to respect your damage numbers or kills if you're not near the front lines among your teammates.

"The skill part is your positioning and reading the battle situation " huuum yea what about a brawler who did 910ish damage like the OP but with 7 kills did you think his positioning and map-awareness were only luck maybe ??


I mean positioning and reading the battle situation are basics skills in this game IMO, each rolewarfare need thoses BASICs skills for perform but where a sniper need to aim himself + basics skills, a lrm boat will only need "basics skills"
And what about the brawler....well he need basic skill+ aiming skill like the sniper but for perfom he will need in same time >>> close range map awareness skill ( are UAVs above this position and read sismic infos while doing all rest of skills i mean playing... ) + timing skill ( ennemy team and my team are they pushing/holding, have they to do it, did i need to anticipate this futur hypothetical move or create it maybe? )

Basic skill in this game is the minimal .... in my mind its like zero skill to have it, we arent in COD right?
Also yea lrms support is the really lower tier of all MWO rolewarfare the less risky one even snipers have to show theirs faces for inflict damage when mortar people don't...


But i have to say i agree with OP with all his post ( which i did misread at first attemp it seem ) playing lrms5boat, medium or some dedicated heavies ( with some small range and high DPS weapons as back support ofc ) + tagging his own targets, make rain on them at 400 meters range is of course a totally valid way to play lrms ( and deadly way ) but people who boat lrms 15 or 20 in assauts mechs and expecting carry theirs team are just the ultimate F**** joke in this game

Edited by Idealsuspect, 17 June 2016 - 11:40 AM.

[Mole]

I only have two LRM boats in my garage, which would be my Kintaro KTO-18 and my Archer ARC-5W. I also have a Vindicator, a Mad Dog, a Hellbringer, a Timber Wolf, a Summoner, and a Kodiak that have light LRMs that really only act as a closing weapon until I get in range for laser vomit/dakka. My Kintaro and Archer though, when I do play them, are right in the thick of things. I find it's actually safer to be an LRM boat that is moving with your team than it is to be hanging back waiting for people to get locks for you. Nobody can flank me in a light 'mech for example if I am stuck in with all 11 of my team mates. I tend to stick to cover when locks are available and launch, but when locks become unavailable I find a position to acquire my own locks. And if something gets close, the Kintaro is fairly defenseless since its backup weapons are only a meager two Medium Lasers, but it has the speed to seek help from friendlies if it finds itself in trouble. My Archer, on the other hand, will still chew you up at close range since its arms are packed with 4 SRM4s. Case in point: Don't dedicate a 'mech to LRMs so heavily that you leave yourself totally useless and defenseless should you find yourself in one of the many situations present in this game where your missiles will not help you. Even my Kintaros lowly two medium lasers is enough to save my life sometimes where my LRMs cannot be used.

[Tatula]

Idealsuspect, on 17 June 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

I mean positioning and reading the battle situation are basics skills in this game IMO, each rolewarfare need thoses BASICs skills for perform but where a sniper need to aim himself + basics skills, a lrm boat will only need "basics skills"
And what about the brawler....well he need basic skill+ aiming skill like the sniper but for perfom he will need in same time >>> close range map awareness skill ( are UAVs above this position and read sismic infos while doing all rest of skills i mean playing... ) + timing skill ( ennemy team and my team are they pushing/holding, have they to do it, did i need to anticipate this futur hypothetical move or create it maybe? )

Basic skill in this game is the minimal .... in my mind its like zero skill to have it, we arent in COD right?
Also yea lrms support is the really lower tier of all MWO rolewarfare the less risky one even snipers have to show theirs faces for inflict damage when mortar people don't...

Positioning and situation awareness for a LRM carrier is not the same as that of a brawler, or a mid-range skirmisher, or a long range sniper, or a scout. So the skill part is to be aware of what your role is and act accordingly.

[Trauglodyte]

Pretty much everyone sucks on LRMs. They think that they're great players on open maps because it is easy for friendlies to spot for you. They never roll up front taking damage and they're almost 100% of the time pure LRMs. LRM Assaults are liabilities, to the extreme, which just makes that problem worse.

[wanderer]

Quote

I have very little issue with LRM players so long as they push with the team, get their own locks (or try to at least), and are willing to take their share of the damage.

My usual response to the detested "Please hold locks" is- "If you need them to hold locks, you were too far away to fire anyway."

Quote

910 damage and you did kill only 2 guys ?
but you need to learn pinpoint bro ...

He got four assists. How much of the damage he did contributing to the other four kills is up in the air unless he also got KMDDs.

Also, that's the LRM tradeoff. Guided missiles that inevitably miss with ever increasing regularity using larger launchers, getting spread that makes what damage DOES hit less effective as your tube count rises. The rule of thumb is "A third of your LRM damage hit nothing important", meaning he basically had a 2K/4A 600ish damage game. Which is average for pretty much anyone.

Quote

You bet Im LURMING, oh yeah! But sure I usually go in the 2nd line with my team. And make sure my lurmer mech have the following when possible.

- XL engine, lrm mechs arent mcuh meant for close range combat anyway

The better to maneuver (critical if you aren't lurmtarded) with. If you can't hit at least 64kph in an LRM boat, you're too slow.

Quote

- Bap

Increasing your sensor range by 25%, but sadly not giving your LRMs any boost getting there. Not usually as useful as advertised, and it's 1-1.5 tons less you have to shoot someone with something other than LRMs.

Quote

- Command console (rarely though), Target computers if possible on clan mechs

Literally why. They have no effect on lock-on, tracking, or much of anything LRM-related.

Quote

- Artemis if I use lrm 15 and 20, just icing on cake if I have spare room on an lrm 5/ 10 mech

Pretty much an outright waste on LRM 5s at this point, but between the better clustering and tracking, they're worth it on 10s, required for 15s, and needed for 20s just to get them to mediocre hit percentage.

Quote

- ECM if any (hey Tempest, nice to have you!)

That it only has two decent missile hardpoints is sadness. Disturbingly, the Hellbringer is nearly as effective for much the same reasons.

Quote

- AMS, for counter lurming/ if I have decent backup weapons for some semi - brawling until I can reach enemy lurmers when Im empty.

Always have at least a couple of medium lasers. Nothing sadder than a mostly wrecked opponent that gets in under your missiles and dismantles a barely-damaged boat. (On my Tempest and Archer-5S, it's a pair of larges.)

Quote

- Yeah and tag! Hold your own ding dong lock But only if energy hardpoints are high up on torsos or even on arms.

Part of why I like having secondaries with reach. Can't lurm? Screw you, have lasers.

[Obadiah333]

I love it when I see missile boats on the other team. That means there are lots of lower tier players there that are easy pickings for my Jenner IIc. Also, I hate LRM's. I have since day 1 and I make it a point to sneak into the back field and smoke them whenever I can.

[wanderer]

Quote

Pretty much everyone sucks on LRMs. They think that they're great players on open maps because it is easy for friendlies to spot for you. They never roll up front taking damage and they're almost 100% of the time pure LRMs. LRM Assaults are liabilities, to the extreme, which just makes that problem worse.

The worst part of that is that firing constantly on indirect only makes your clustering even worse, meaning your damage spam gets more inefficient. It's still useful, but direct fire does far more killing damage, indirect generally just mauls a target (and if they don't already have a weak point, you have to bludgeon them to death by brute force).

Note that a lurmboat that gets their own locks can be quite good at killing things.



This is what a score screen looks like if you're doing a good job in a missile boat. You hunted down your targets and you got your locks, fired direct mode as often as possible.

[Appogee]

I really have to grit my teeth when the LRM assault who hung at the back all match, spamming at remote locks, not using a point of his armor until the very end when he was last man standing, declares himself to the be the MVP due to his fantastic damage total.

[crashlogic]

Ok you miss the point. This is not about how much or how little I contributed (the two kills were solo kills, two of my assists came with lasers, and I had 4x brawling awards). This is about the fact that a single mech carrying LRMS, even a maddog, does not cause the team to suffer a 12-6 loss. I stated my contribution simply to suggest I was not useless to the team. Simply put a sing mech, no matter what it does, does not make a team lose 12-6. If it's a 12-11 stomp, maybe, but 12-6 is a team loss. I just resent being fingered as the cause.

[crashlogic]

Appogee, on 17 June 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

I really have to grit my teeth when the LRM assault who hung at the back all match, spamming at remote locks, not using a point of his armor until the very end when he was last man standing, declares himself to the be the MVP due to his fantastic damage total.

I rarely see lrm assaults with fantastic damage totals (of course in fairness, I rearely see LRM assaults, and cry when I do). As and lrm boat, I can tell you that a lot of my kills come from the 4CERMLs and not the LRMS. I do damage with lrms, and I take a lot of damage, especially becuase i figure its my job to draw lrm fire, since I am getting most of the locks for the team, and am always on the enemy radar. I move and duck a lot for that reason. LRMS are best used as short-mid range indirect fire (which is why Domination is my favorite mode) unless you are on Polar. Sure I will take the occasional 1100 meter shot, mostly to slow the enemy down or pull their assaults away from the murder ball. But brawling ith lrms is bread and butter and a lot of fun.

Edited by crashlogic, 17 June 2016 - 04:57 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

LRM brawling is the only way to go and even that is a risk. The heat/damage ratio is fine but, at most, I'd only ever toss in a single 15 rack. That would require a LOT of ancillary weapons as my primary damage dealers. I run a single LRM10 on my Jager-A because that is the extent of my range - everything else is 270m or less.

I think the primary thing that I hate about LRM boaters, and mostly LRM Assault boaters, is that they mindlessly fire into the distance never knowing if they're hitting or not. Seriously, if you've got to take 5+ tons of ammo and you come out of a game doing 200-300 damage, you were a complete waste to the match, win or lose. Boasting about doing 1/10th of your potentital max damage with a weapon system is a joke and a bad one at that.

But, worry not, there are good LRM users out there. The system still isn't where it should be and we just had a post about how the community would fix it. Until that day comes, though, LRMs are going to be a shade of what they could be. Makes me sad.

[crashlogic]

I brawl in a maddog with 4xcermls and 6xclrm5's, its fun because i have no armour and have to keep in motion and use cover. I know the limits of the weapon system, that's what makes it fun.

Edited by crashlogic, 17 June 2016 - 05:01 PM.

[JediPanther]

The only time I gripe about a lrm boat is when I play or have the A1 lrm 5 spamer. Then you bet I'll do every thing I can to get locks because dam it jim, the lrm 5 A1 is fun to use and having it bomb that enemy assult trying to come out of cover to alpha you is a great thing.As a lrm boater nothing is more satisfying than lrming an assault helping team mates close the gap for the finishing kill hits then see the just destroyed assault type dam missiles into all chat.

[wanderer]

You know what's even better than a Catapult-A1?
An Archer-5S that spews out the missile barrages and actually can defend itself.